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	<title>Comments on: How many votes ?</title>
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	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: john henry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-178409</link>
		<dc:creator>john henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Nov 2006 01:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/#comment-178409</guid>
		<description>The numbers seem low.  I aggregate around 56 to 61 million votes cast, depending on which of the above sources - let&#039;s say 61.  If we assume turnout of around 40%, it leads to a total electorate of about 150 million.  This suggests that just 50% of the entire population is even eligible to vote.  And this is cast as the world&#039;s premier democracy!  Are there really that many immigrants, children and prisoners?  Or am I missing something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The numbers seem low.  I aggregate around 56 to 61 million votes cast, depending on which of the above sources &#8211; let&#8217;s say 61.  If we assume turnout of around 40%, it leads to a total electorate of about 150 million.  This suggests that just 50% of the entire population is even eligible to vote.  And this is cast as the world&#8217;s premier democracy!  Are there really that many immigrants, children and prisoners?  Or am I missing something?</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-178325</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/#comment-178325</guid>
		<description>Another phenomenon the US media don&#039;t address is a huge anti-Republican swing in the Latino vote in this election. If the Democrats manage to position themselves in opposition to anti-immigration hysteria (it&#039;s not clear to me that they can), then they should be able to ride this wave for decades. It&#039;s the largest and fastest growing minority group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Another phenomenon the US media don&#8217;t address is a huge anti-Republican swing in the Latino vote in this election. If the Democrats manage to position themselves in opposition to anti-immigration hysteria (it&#8217;s not clear to me that they can), then they should be able to ride this wave for decades. It&#8217;s the largest and fastest growing minority group.</p>
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		<title>By: ed</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-178296</link>
		<dc:creator>ed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/#comment-178296</guid>
		<description>Steve Sailer also tried to answer the same question.  Just counting the votes, as reported on the Fox News website, resulted in just over 51% voting Democratic.  Since according to exit polls, men voted 51% Democratic, and women voted 56% Democratic, if the overall electorate voted at the 51% figure something is wrong here.  However, as Sailer noted, votes for the 30 unopposed (by Republicans) Democratic congressmen were not being reported.

The question is how to factor in those thirty, because they got at least some votes.  Sailer calculated 52.8%, which jibes with the figure quoted above, and also with the exit poll data.  There were in fact 4 uncontested Republican seats, but obviously they don&#039;t skew things as much as the 30.

The 53% margin is pretty decent.  The last president to win by that much was GHW Bush in 1988.  I think you have to go back to the 70s to find a party winning by that much in the House.  Very few incumbent Democratic congressmen won with less than 60%, while quite a few incumbent Republicans dropped below that figure.  Yesterday&#039;s New York Times also has a good breakdown of the exit poll data.

And while the media attention has been focused on the first Muslim represented to Congress, don&#039;t forget that two Buddhists were elected as well, and it also seems that there are more Jewish congressmen than in the past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Steve Sailer also tried to answer the same question.  Just counting the votes, as reported on the Fox News website, resulted in just over 51% voting Democratic.  Since according to exit polls, men voted 51% Democratic, and women voted 56% Democratic, if the overall electorate voted at the 51% figure something is wrong here.  However, as Sailer noted, votes for the 30 unopposed (by Republicans) Democratic congressmen were not being reported.</p>

	<p>The question is how to factor in those thirty, because they got at least some votes.  Sailer calculated 52.8%, which jibes with the figure quoted above, and also with the exit poll data.  There were in fact 4 uncontested Republican seats, but obviously they don&#8217;t skew things as much as the 30.</p>

	<p>The 53% margin is pretty decent.  The last president to win by that much was <span class="caps">GHW </span>Bush in 1988.  I think you have to go back to the 70s to find a party winning by that much in the House.  Very few incumbent Democratic congressmen won with less than 60%, while quite a few incumbent Republicans dropped below that figure.  Yesterday&#8217;s New York Times also has a good breakdown of the exit poll data.</p>

	<p>And while the media attention has been focused on the first Muslim represented to Congress, don&#8217;t forget that two Buddhists were elected as well, and it also seems that there are more Jewish congressmen than in the past.</p>
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		<title>By: Abi</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-178292</link>
		<dc:creator>Abi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/#comment-178292</guid>
		<description>Paul Krugman&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://select.nytimes.com/2006/11/10/opinion/10krugman.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;first post-election op-ed&lt;/a&gt; [Mark Thoma says it&#039;s free access for the next few days] has all the information in one place:

&quot;Tuesday’s election was a truly stunning victory for the Democrats. Candidates planning to caucus with the Democrats took 24 of the 33 Senate seats at stake this year, winning seven million more votes than Republicans. In House races, Democrats received about 53 percent of the two-party vote, giving them a margin more than twice as large as the 2.5-percentage-point lead that Mr. Bush claimed as a “mandate” two years ago — and the margin would have been even bigger if many Democrats hadn’t been running unopposed.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Paul Krugman&#8217;s <a href="http://select.nytimes.com/2006/11/10/opinion/10krugman.html" rel="nofollow">first post-election op-ed</a> [Mark Thoma says it&#8217;s free access for the next few days] has all the information in one place:</p>

	<p>&#8220;Tuesday&#8217;s election was a truly stunning victory for the Democrats. Candidates planning to caucus with the Democrats took 24 of the 33 Senate seats at stake this year, winning seven million more votes than Republicans. In House races, Democrats received about 53 percent of the two-party vote, giving them a margin more than twice as large as the 2.5-percentage-point lead that Mr. Bush claimed as a &#8220;mandate&#8221; two years ago &#8212; and the margin would have been even bigger if many Democrats hadn&#8217;t been running unopposed.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-178286</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Nov 2006 07:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/#comment-178286</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://fruitsandvotes.com/?p=1011&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fruits and Votes&lt;/a&gt; has the beginning of a discussion on the aggregate votes, although the blogger, Matthew Shugart, notes he&#039;s the only US political scientist working with the figures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a href="http://fruitsandvotes.com/?p=1011" rel="nofollow">Fruits and Votes</a> has the beginning of a discussion on the aggregate votes, although the blogger, Matthew Shugart, notes he&#8217;s the only US political scientist working with the figures.</p>
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		<title>By: DC</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-178232</link>
		<dc:creator>DC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/#comment-178232</guid>
		<description>And what about votes for parties other that the Democrats and Republicans?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>And what about votes for parties other that the Democrats and Republicans?</p>
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		<title>By: Rich B.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-178221</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 19:04:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/#comment-178221</guid>
		<description>While I think the &quot;effects of gerrymandering&quot; are real, there are actually two different &quot;effects&quot; at work, which tend to cancel each other out.

1.  Gerrymandering puts lots of members of the same party together, to ensure a victory.  (If Dems won with 52% of the vote, put more Dems in, and they are safer next time with 60% of the votes).

2.  Gerrymanding shifts members of the same party into other districts, to maximize districts won.  (If Repubs won 2 districts with 65% of the vote, and lost 1 with 45% of the vote, they could move 5% Repubs into the losing district, to give them 3 55% victories.)

While people tend to fear #2 more, it is really #1 that happens more often.  Politicians want their party in control, but not at the expense of putting their own seat at risk.

Pennsylvania and New Jersey are good examples of opposites.  

New Jersey was gerrymandered for &quot;Safe Seats&quot;, and even in 2006, there was only one race that where the margin of victory (for either party) was less than 10 points.  Democrats have 7 (of 13) seats, and will never get more than 8 (but also never have fewer than 6).

Pennsylvania, on the other hand, re-districted after the 2000 census specifically to maximize Republican districts.  In 2002 and 2004 it worked well, with more Republicans winning, despite a majority Democrat electorate (but each REpublican won by smaller margins in each district).  This year, though, the Democrats picked up five PA seats (to take a 12-7 lead in the state), with a bunch of really close races.

So, you can have safe seats, or you can have more seats, but it&#039;s always a trade off.  So, over the long run, it works itself out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>While I think the &#8220;effects of gerrymandering&#8221; are real, there are actually two different &#8220;effects&#8221; at work, which tend to cancel each other out.</p>

	<p>1.  Gerrymandering puts lots of members of the same party together, to ensure a victory.  (If Dems won with 52% of the vote, put more Dems in, and they are safer next time with 60% of the votes).</p>

	<p>2.  Gerrymanding shifts members of the same party into other districts, to maximize districts won.  (If Repubs won 2 districts with 65% of the vote, and lost 1 with 45% of the vote, they could move 5% Repubs into the losing district, to give them 3 55% victories.)</p>

	<p>While people tend to fear #2 more, it is really #1 that happens more often.  Politicians want their party in control, but not at the expense of putting their own seat at risk.</p>

	<p>Pennsylvania and New Jersey are good examples of opposites.</p>

	<p>New Jersey was gerrymandered for &#8220;Safe Seats&#8221;, and even in 2006, there was only one race that where the margin of victory (for either party) was less than 10 points.  Democrats have 7 (of 13) seats, and will never get more than 8 (but also never have fewer than 6).</p>

	<p>Pennsylvania, on the other hand, re-districted after the 2000 census specifically to maximize Republican districts.  In 2002 and 2004 it worked well, with more Republicans winning, despite a majority Democrat electorate (but each REpublican won by smaller margins in each district).  This year, though, the Democrats picked up five PA seats (to take a 12-7 lead in the state), with a bunch of really close races.</p>

	<p>So, you can have safe seats, or you can have more seats, but it&#8217;s always a trade off.  So, over the long run, it works itself out.</p>
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		<title>By: rekniht</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-178218</link>
		<dc:creator>rekniht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 18:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/#comment-178218</guid>
		<description>The other thing to consider besides uncontested seats, is that the parties in America are rather geographically diverse. While I think it is safe to say that this election was a nationally referendum on the Bush administration and the war in Iraq, few elections are like this. A democrat from Texas is different than a democrat from New York. As an extreme example, the dixiecrats were a completely seperate part of the democrat party. No statement about the national number of votes for the democrats could say anything useful about how the country felt about issues.  

Unless, like this time, there is a single national issue central to the election, I don&#039;t think those numbers will ever be useful in a system where the parties are coalitions of groups rather than the government being a coaltion of parties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The other thing to consider besides uncontested seats, is that the parties in America are rather geographically diverse. While I think it is safe to say that this election was a nationally referendum on the Bush administration and the war in Iraq, few elections are like this. A democrat from Texas is different than a democrat from New York. As an extreme example, the dixiecrats were a completely seperate part of the democrat party. No statement about the national number of votes for the democrats could say anything useful about how the country felt about issues.</p>

	<p>Unless, like this time, there is a single national issue central to the election, I don&#8217;t think those numbers will ever be useful in a system where the parties are coalitions of groups rather than the government being a coaltion of parties.</p>
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		<title>By: theCoach</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-178215</link>
		<dc:creator>theCoach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 17:45:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/#comment-178215</guid>
		<description>JQ,
Just so you are aware, Tyler Cowen is responding to your comments on his post here a while back on his site today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>JQ,<br />
Just so you are aware, Tyler Cowen is responding to your comments on his post here a while back on his site today.</p>
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		<title>By: Jack</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-178214</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 17:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/#comment-178214</guid>
		<description>The Office of the Clerk of the House eventually puts out the official tallies, available in pdf files: http://clerk.house.gov/members/electionInfo/elections.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The Office of the Clerk of the House eventually puts out the official tallies, available in pdf files: <a href="http://clerk.house.gov/members/electionInfo/elections.html" rel="nofollow">http://clerk.house.gov/members/electionInfo/elections.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Martin James</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-178205</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:29:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/#comment-178205</guid>
		<description>One answer to 2. is that the total votes aren&#039;t reported because we wouldn&#039;t want our republic to be mistakenly viewed as a democracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>One answer to 2. is that the total votes aren&#8217;t reported because we wouldn&#8217;t want our republic to be mistakenly viewed as a democracy.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-178204</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/#comment-178204</guid>
		<description>Bad Jim: I think that a lot of the changes in election procedures were primarily for the purpose of making TV coverage easier. (The same way a lot of timeouts in US football are for TV too). The one big  benefit of voting machines I can see is quick results, making it possible for TV to schedule a 6-hour election extravaganza rather than having the news dribble in for 48 hours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Bad Jim: I think that a lot of the changes in election procedures were primarily for the purpose of making TV coverage easier. (The same way a lot of timeouts in US football are for TV too). The one big  benefit of voting machines I can see is quick results, making it possible for TV to schedule a 6-hour election extravaganza rather than having the news dribble in for 48 hours.</p>
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		<title>By: Cryptic Ned</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-178203</link>
		<dc:creator>Cryptic Ned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 16:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/#comment-178203</guid>
		<description>There were a lot more uncontested Dem candidates than uncontested Repub candidates.  Sure, a lot of Repub candidates had no chance of losing, but their opponents still got 30% of the vote just by being Dems.  Meanwhile a lot of Dem candidates had no Republican at all anywhere on the ballot.

Also, I think the international press has not taken enough note of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/08/muslim.elect/index.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this story&lt;/a&gt;.  He isn&#039;t in a majority Muslim or majority black district, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There were a lot more uncontested Dem candidates than uncontested Repub candidates.  Sure, a lot of Repub candidates had no chance of losing, but their opponents still got 30% of the vote just by being Dems.  Meanwhile a lot of Dem candidates had no Republican at all anywhere on the ballot.</p>

	<p>Also, I think the international press has not taken enough note of <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/08/muslim.elect/index.html" rel="nofollow">this story</a>.  He isn&#8217;t in a majority Muslim or majority black district, either.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben M</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-178197</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:48:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/#comment-178197</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s an answer over at Scienceblogs:
&lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/mikethemadbiologist/2006/11/democrats_win_national_congres.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://scienceblogs.com/mikethemadbiologist/2006/11/democrats_win_national_congres.php&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Basically, the Democrats received 37,662,923 votes, and the Republicans received 33,668,227 votes. The Democrats received 52.8% of votes, whereas the Republicans received 47.2% of votes (keep in mind the caveats above). If you calculate things the way DeLong did, we can call that a 5.6% majority in the House.

&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There&#8217;s an answer over at Scienceblogs:<br />
<a href="http://scienceblogs.com/mikethemadbiologist/2006/11/democrats_win_national_congres.php" rel="nofollow">http://scienceblogs.com/mikethemadbiologist/2006/11/democrats_win_national_congres.php</a></p>

	<p><blockquote><br />
Basically, the Democrats received 37,662,923 votes, and the Republicans received 33,668,227 votes. The Democrats received 52.8% of votes, whereas the Republicans received 47.2% of votes (keep in mind the caveats above). If you calculate things the way DeLong did, we can call that a 5.6% majority in the House.</blockquote></p>

	<p></p>
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		<title>By: arthur</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/comment-page-1/#comment-178196</link>
		<dc:creator>arthur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Nov 2006 14:46:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/09/how-many-votes/#comment-178196</guid>
		<description>House numbers are distorted by the significant number of uncontested seats (about 30 of 435).  The nationanl Republican Party this round decided not to put up House candidates who had no chance of winning, mainly in majority Black districts.  The theory is that some Black Democrats supoprt their local representative but won&#039;t bother to show up to vote if the House seat is uncontested, resulting in fewer Democratic votes for governor, senator, etc.  

The Democrats have done the same thing in the past, but this round the Democrats contested every single House seat, although many of the candidates were not serious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>House numbers are distorted by the significant number of uncontested seats (about 30 of 435).  The nationanl Republican Party this round decided not to put up House candidates who had no chance of winning, mainly in majority Black districts.  The theory is that some Black Democrats supoprt their local representative but won&#8217;t bother to show up to vote if the House seat is uncontested, resulting in fewer Democratic votes for governor, senator, etc.</p>

	<p>The Democrats have done the same thing in the past, but this round the Democrats contested every single House seat, although many of the candidates were not serious.</p>
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