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	<title>Comments on: Things Change</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Martin James</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/comment-page-1/#comment-178758</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 16:16:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/#comment-178758</guid>
		<description>Richard Rorty seems as pragmatic on the question question of liberal theory and politics as on everything else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Richard Rorty seems as pragmatic on the question question of liberal theory and politics as on everything else.</p>
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		<title>By: John Holbo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/comment-page-1/#comment-178685</link>
		<dc:creator>John Holbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Nov 2006 05:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/#comment-178685</guid>
		<description>abb1, I stand corrected. And sorry for being signed in as my wife. (It must make people wonder about us sometimes.)

Thanks, Mark, I am planning to still read it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>abb1, I stand corrected. And sorry for being signed in as my wife. (It must make people wonder about us sometimes.)</p>

	<p>Thanks, Mark, I am planning to still read it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Schmitt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/comment-page-1/#comment-178659</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Schmitt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 22:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/#comment-178659</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a ton of interesting stuff in Edsall, even though he overstates the stability of Rove&#039;s paradigm and holds a retrograde view of the role of race in American politics. But there are lots of fascinating points, most notably his discussion about the role of risk and perception of risk, mostly near the end. The book is an effort to show the elements of the Republican system that are stable enough to survive an electoral loss, and he&#039;s got a lot of it right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There&#8217;s a ton of interesting stuff in Edsall, even though he overstates the stability of Rove&#8217;s paradigm and holds a retrograde view of the role of race in American politics. But there are lots of fascinating points, most notably his discussion about the role of risk and perception of risk, mostly near the end. The book is an effort to show the elements of the Republican system that are stable enough to survive an electoral loss, and he&#8217;s got a lot of it right.</p>
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		<title>By: gmoke</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/comment-page-1/#comment-178651</link>
		<dc:creator>gmoke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/#comment-178651</guid>
		<description>Saw Edsall speak at Harvard a month or so back.  You don&#039;t need to read his book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Saw Edsall speak at Harvard a month or so back.  You don&#8217;t need to read his book.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/comment-page-1/#comment-178634</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 18:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/#comment-178634</guid>
		<description>I know, I was responding to #33, John (or Belle or whoever you are).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I know, I was responding to #33, John (or Belle or whoever you are).</p>
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		<title>By: Belle Waring</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/comment-page-1/#comment-178612</link>
		<dc:creator>Belle Waring</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/#comment-178612</guid>
		<description>abb1, I assure you that if I ever write a post that&#039;s all about Rawls, I&#039;ll manage to label it more clearly as such.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>abb1, I assure you that if I ever write a post that&#8217;s all about Rawls, I&#8217;ll manage to label it more clearly as such.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/comment-page-1/#comment-178583</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/#comment-178583</guid>
		<description>Ah, so this is all about Rawls; &#039;liberalism&#039; is the dream John Rawls dreamed. Yeah, it is highly abstract indeed. It sure isn&#039;t about anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ah, so this is all about Rawls; &#8216;liberalism&#8217; is the dream John Rawls dreamed. Yeah, it is highly abstract indeed. It sure isn&#8217;t about anything.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/comment-page-1/#comment-178577</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:38:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/#comment-178577</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sure that Bloom voted Republican. He held his nose, all right, but neocons close to him were officials in the Reagan administration.

The question of Rawls&#039; voting patterns is highly relevant to the actual question about the relationship between philosophical liberalism (Rawls) and actual political liberalism (th Democratic Party). If Rawls were a classical (pre-New Deal) liberal, the question would be different, but he wasn&#039;t.

Veterans benefits aren&#039;t really redistribution. They&#039;re back-payments on an underpaid, slavish  job which is often fatal. Non-combat soldiers are probably overpaid, but when people go in they don&#039;t know that they&#039;ll stay out of combat, and that line is being blurred anyway. 

It&#039;s more reaonable to think that the US relies for its soldiering needs on a bunch of guys who are willing to accept a very bad deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m sure that Bloom voted Republican. He held his nose, all right, but neocons close to him were officials in the Reagan administration.</p>

	<p>The question of Rawls&#8217; voting patterns is highly relevant to the actual question about the relationship between philosophical liberalism (Rawls) and actual political liberalism (th Democratic Party). If Rawls were a classical (pre-New Deal) liberal, the question would be different, but he wasn&#8217;t.</p>

	<p>Veterans benefits aren&#8217;t really redistribution. They&#8217;re back-payments on an underpaid, slavish  job which is often fatal. Non-combat soldiers are probably overpaid, but when people go in they don&#8217;t know that they&#8217;ll stay out of combat, and that line is being blurred anyway.</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s more reaonable to think that the US relies for its soldiering needs on a bunch of guys who are willing to accept a very bad deal.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/comment-page-1/#comment-178556</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:31:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/#comment-178556</guid>
		<description>The whole huge Hayek-Friedman branch of liberalism is squarely in the Republican camp. Not to mention a notorious group of liberal nationalists, aka &#039;neocons&#039;. 

Liberalism is the ideology that &lt;i&gt;unites&lt;/i&gt; the two major American parties. Liberalism is pretty much the raison d&#039;etre for this whole political system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The whole huge Hayek-Friedman branch of liberalism is squarely in the Republican camp. Not to mention a notorious group of liberal nationalists, aka &#8216;neocons&#8217;.</p>

	<p>Liberalism is the ideology that <i>unites</i> the two major American parties. Liberalism is pretty much the raison d&#8217;etre for this whole political system.</p>
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		<title>By: tps12</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/comment-page-1/#comment-178547</link>
		<dc:creator>tps12</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 06:11:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/#comment-178547</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always said that one of the big fast food corporations should sell a $20 burger. Whoever did it first would make a couple bazillion before everyone else jumped aboard and diluted the cachet (no mixed metaphor).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve always said that one of the big fast food corporations should sell a $20 burger. Whoever did it first would make a couple bazillion before everyone else jumped aboard and diluted the cachet (no mixed metaphor).</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Danby</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/comment-page-1/#comment-178545</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Danby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:43:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/#comment-178545</guid>
		<description>&quot;Because Republicans find proposals for redistribution to be ideologically anathema.&quot;

There&#039;s an obvious qualification about the *direction* of redistribution that I&#039;ll give someone else the pleasure of making!  But to turn in the other direction, most of my Republican relatives support public education and veterans&#039; benefits, which are progressively redistributive, and they don&#039;t really think in terms of ideological anathemas.  The basis of this statement &quot;Republicans find...&quot; is unclear.  There *are* some sophisticated polling projects -- I&#039;m thinking about the Pew Center&#039;s work -- that try to work out in some detail what people believe, and you might want to start there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Because Republicans find proposals for redistribution to be ideologically anathema.&#8221;</p>

	<p>There&#8217;s an obvious qualification about the <strong>direction</strong> of redistribution that I&#8217;ll give someone else the pleasure of making!  But to turn in the other direction, most of my Republican relatives support public education and veterans&#8217; benefits, which are progressively redistributive, and they don&#8217;t really think in terms of ideological anathemas.  The basis of this statement &#8220;Republicans find&#8230;&#8221; is unclear.  There <strong>are</strong> some sophisticated polling projects&#8212;I&#8217;m thinking about the Pew Center&#8217;s work&#8212;that try to work out in some detail what people believe, and you might want to start there.</p>
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		<title>By: John Holbo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/comment-page-1/#comment-178543</link>
		<dc:creator>John Holbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 05:10:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/#comment-178543</guid>
		<description>Dan, sorry my original response was a bit sharp. The point of my post was: getting any sort of alignment between these two things is very problematic (for the rather obvious reasons you point out.) Your response seems to be: but getting any sort of alignment between these two things is very problematic (and you cite some of the more obvious reasons.) In short, you seem to be agreeing with me, while acting as though you disagree with me. I knew Allan Bloom (very slight undergraduate acquaintance at the U of C). I&#039;ll bet he voted Republican.

The reason why Rawls would be a Democrat is that he is preoccupied with progressive redistribution of wealth, within the bounds of respect for individual freedom. That makes him a Democrat rather than a Republican, if the choice is one or the other. Because Republicans find proposals for redistrubition to be ideologically anathema.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Dan, sorry my original response was a bit sharp. The point of my post was: getting any sort of alignment between these two things is very problematic (for the rather obvious reasons you point out.) Your response seems to be: but getting any sort of alignment between these two things is very problematic (and you cite some of the more obvious reasons.) In short, you seem to be agreeing with me, while acting as though you disagree with me. I knew Allan Bloom (very slight undergraduate acquaintance at the U of C). I&#8217;ll bet he voted Republican.</p>

	<p>The reason why Rawls would be a Democrat is that he is preoccupied with progressive redistribution of wealth, within the bounds of respect for individual freedom. That makes him a Democrat rather than a Republican, if the choice is one or the other. Because Republicans find proposals for redistrubition to be ideologically anathema.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Simon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/comment-page-1/#comment-178541</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 04:58:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/#comment-178541</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;although there is no possibility of a simple, direct order, the notion that, say, John Rawls is more likely to vote Democrat than Republican is not absurd.&lt;/em&gt;

Of course it&#039;s not.  Since the 1970&#039;s, the left/liberal/Democratic coalition has tended to include the well-educated, white-collar professionals, government and nonprofit employees, and those affiliated with cultural and creative work.  These are demographic and interest groups, not philosophical communities--and John Rawls falls squarely into all of them.  If he&#039;d been a professor of biology rather than political philosophy, one would &lt;em&gt;still&lt;/em&gt; consider him more likely to vote Democrat than Republican.  

Now let&#039;s consider a more interesting case.  How do you think Allan Bloom tended to vote?  Personally, I&#039;m not at all sure.  A brief Web search offers one &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.culturevulture.net/Books/Ravelstein.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;claim&lt;/a&gt; that &quot;Bloom argued that his cultural concerns were of a more radical nature than any party affiliation could satisfy, whether conservative or liberal.&quot;  I could certainly imagine him refusing to vote for any standing candidate; picturing him voting for, say, Ronald Reagan is rather more difficult.

Do you disagree?  And if not, then why should John Rawls&#039; hypothetical Democratic party ballot be taken as implying some kind of connection between political philosophy and party affiliation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>although there is no possibility of a simple, direct order, the notion that, say, John Rawls is more likely to vote Democrat than Republican is not absurd.</em></p>

	<p>Of course it&#8217;s not.  Since the 1970&#8217;s, the left/liberal/Democratic coalition has tended to include the well-educated, white-collar professionals, government and nonprofit employees, and those affiliated with cultural and creative work.  These are demographic and interest groups, not philosophical communities&#8212;and John Rawls falls squarely into all of them.  If he&#8217;d been a professor of biology rather than political philosophy, one would <em>still</em> consider him more likely to vote Democrat than Republican.</p>

	<p>Now let&#8217;s consider a more interesting case.  How do you think Allan Bloom tended to vote?  Personally, I&#8217;m not at all sure.  A brief Web search offers one <a href="http://www.culturevulture.net/Books/Ravelstein.htm" rel="nofollow">claim</a> that &#8220;Bloom argued that his cultural concerns were of a more radical nature than any party affiliation could satisfy, whether conservative or liberal.&#8221;  I could certainly imagine him refusing to vote for any standing candidate; picturing him voting for, say, Ronald Reagan is rather more difficult.</p>

	<p>Do you disagree?  And if not, then why should John Rawls&#8217; hypothetical Democratic party ballot be taken as implying some kind of connection between political philosophy and party affiliation?</p>
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		<title>By: John Holbo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/comment-page-1/#comment-178537</link>
		<dc:creator>John Holbo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 04:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/#comment-178537</guid>
		<description>Thanks, fyreflye, now I know the word for this practice. It does sound rather nefarious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks, fyreflye, now I know the word for this practice. It does sound rather nefarious.</p>
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		<title>By: fyreflye</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/comment-page-1/#comment-178534</link>
		<dc:creator>fyreflye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Nov 2006 04:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/12/things-change/#comment-178534</guid>
		<description>To respond to the second question: the kind of seller who waits for a sale and then orders the book from the publisher is common on Amazon; the technique called &quot;dropshipping&quot; and is righteously reviled by the mom and pop sellers who are hurt by it. 

Dropshipping violates two basic Amazon rules: that the seller must have the item in stock at the time of sale and that the order must ship within two working days. It just so happens that these often large sellers are Amazon&#039;s bread and butter and so Amazon rarely enforces its own rules against them.  In many cases the seller will not deliver the item on time or at all and if the customer complains Amazon, not the seller, will issue a refund and never penalize the guilty party.
If you want to practice a little social justice never buy from sellers with 239858 feedbacks, sellers who offer no more than a very general description of the item, or those who fill their comment sections with self advertisements.  They may offer the lowest prices due to volume but they&#039;re crooks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>To respond to the second question: the kind of seller who waits for a sale and then orders the book from the publisher is common on Amazon; the technique called &#8220;dropshipping&#8221; and is righteously reviled by the mom and pop sellers who are hurt by it.</p>

	<p>Dropshipping violates two basic Amazon rules: that the seller must have the item in stock at the time of sale and that the order must ship within two working days. It just so happens that these often large sellers are Amazon&#8217;s bread and butter and so Amazon rarely enforces its own rules against them.  In many cases the seller will not deliver the item on time or at all and if the customer complains Amazon, not the seller, will issue a refund and never penalize the guilty party.<br />
If you want to practice a little social justice never buy from sellers with 239858 feedbacks, sellers who offer no more than a very general description of the item, or those who fill their comment sections with self advertisements.  They may offer the lowest prices due to volume but they&#8217;re crooks.</p>
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