Comments on: Ruuuule the Western Sea http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 22 Nov 2009 11:43:48 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Matt http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-180034 Matt Thu, 23 Nov 2006 01:21:44 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/#comment-180034 This will be off the page soon, but I want to hereby assert that one of the best series of all time was the early days of Marshal Law, and that Sorry, the Nearly Man was one of the best characters, and that the Jesus Society of America was clearly the best group. And that Marshal Law showed how to answer the green lantern view of policy well at the Public Spirit's press conference- nice straight-forward questions like, "Can you move the earth out of its orbit?" "Do you have any special animal or insect senses?" and "Do you go around with a bag over your head at night raping women?" How I'd love to see such questions asked of Bush or, better, Dick Cheney. This will be off the page soon, but I want to hereby assert that one of the best series of all time was the early days of Marshal Law, and that Sorry, the Nearly Man was one of the best characters, and that the Jesus Society of America was clearly the best group. And that Marshal Law showed how to answer the green lantern view of policy well at the Public Spirit’s press conference- nice straight-forward questions like, “Can you move the earth out of its orbit?” “Do you have any special animal or insect senses?” and “Do you go around with a bag over your head at night raping women?” How I’d love to see such questions asked of Bush or, better, Dick Cheney.

]]> By: cw http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-179902 cw Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:28:58 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/#comment-179902 OK, as usual for a Holbo post, it's 1/3 comprehensible (meaning not comprehensible) on first reading. Mr. H: Pick ONE topic. Write about it clearly (no digressions, no obscure allusions, no links to some tenuously related web pages are supposed to give context). Post it. I want to want to read what you write, but you make it way too hard. cw OK, as usual for a Holbo post, it’s 1/3 comprehensible (meaning not comprehensible) on first reading. Mr. H: Pick ONE topic. Write about it clearly (no digressions, no obscure allusions, no links to some tenuously related web pages are supposed to give context). Post it. I want to want to read what you write, but you make it way too hard.

cw

]]> By: The Constructivist http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-179859 The Constructivist Tue, 21 Nov 2006 08:34:12 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/#comment-179859 I'm with you on the ridiculousness of "graphic novel" as a genre (or marketing) designation. As Andrew Ross put it of another pulp genre that was getting a lot of academic attention for awhile, maybe getting out of the Gernsback continuum is not such a great idea (in the process of reading cyberpunk's late capitalist postmodernity against early SF's progressive modernity). Seems like Rob McDougall has been making a similar argument about early U.S. comics over at his blog. In that context, Gaiman's <i>1602</i> is a pretty interesting take on what he likes about the Marvel universe (and America)...and a clever take on Stan Lee's (just a wee bit self-serving) claim that Marvel Comics produced America's modern mythology, at that. I’m with you on the ridiculousness of “graphic novel” as a genre (or marketing) designation.

As Andrew Ross put it of another pulp genre that was getting a lot of academic attention for awhile, maybe getting out of the Gernsback continuum is not such a great idea (in the process of reading cyberpunk’s late capitalist postmodernity against early SF’s progressive modernity). Seems like Rob McDougall has been making a similar argument about early U.S. comics over at his blog.

In that context, Gaiman’s 1602 is a pretty interesting take on what he likes about the Marvel universe (and America)…and a clever take on Stan Lee’s (just a wee bit self-serving) claim that Marvel Comics produced America’s modern mythology, at that.

]]> By: Glorious Godfrey http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-179798 Glorious Godfrey Mon, 20 Nov 2006 20:06:04 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/#comment-179798 <i> What is it with the Brits? Grant Morrison seldom does wrong. Couldn’t say what his best work is. </i> Yeah, he's generally quite good. I would have recommended "Flex Mentalo" if the single issues hadn't become as difficult to find as the true stone of Scone. He can be a weeee self-complacent at times, though, and he's not into what we may call well-structured narratives, going instead for the somewhat-surreal-with-emotional-honesty shtick. Since his optimism does not sit well with my jaundiced view of human nature*, sometimes his stuff just falls flat. <i> GG, what do you have against that Understanding Comics dude? </i> Nothing, really. It's a very worthy effort. Guy has his head a bit up his arse throughout, in an "am I not being teh groundbreaking?" kinda way, but you can forgive him. A friend of mine who's into theatre borrowed it from me, and he went all "wow! What a dissection! Gotta incorporate some of this into my work!" Artistic cross-pollination and all that. Bah. Wanker. Problem is, you can talk about the potential of "sequential art" till the cows go home, it changes the field's parlous state not one bit. Superheroes (which in principle I don't dislike at all) still reign supreme. The "hot" creators are for the most part movie, teevee and best-seller circuit dudes** who are well beyond their prime (pulling the rape routine every so often), the readers the scions of the direct market distribution model, a shrinking base of obsessive-compulsives who would turn the books into ongoing trivia contests if they had their way. Comic shops are guaranteed to terrify any healthy human being who's been involved in consensual oral sex at least once in his or her life***. More importantly, as Robert Crumb famously put it: "it's only lines on paper, folks!" Comics don't need to go out of their way to assert their hipness before the mainstream. Expressions like "graphic novel" are just laughably precious. <i> Wondering if the US will ever catch up to Japan in comics production and popularity….</i> I don't think so, but I don't care. As I said, I like my every activity to make people around me feel better about themselves. For not being me, that is. *: itself highly contrived and stilted, obviously. **: or worse still, wannabes in all those fields. ***: not to be implied as an indication of my personal distaste of such fine establishments. What is it with the Brits? Grant Morrison seldom does wrong. Couldn’t say what his best work is.
Yeah, he’s generally quite good. I would have recommended “Flex Mentalo” if the single issues hadn’t become as difficult to find as the true stone of Scone.
He can be a weeee self-complacent at times, though, and he’s not into what we may call well-structured narratives, going instead for the somewhat-surreal-with-emotional-honesty shtick. Since his optimism does not sit well with my jaundiced view of human nature*, sometimes his stuff just falls flat.
GG, what do you have against that Understanding Comics dude?
Nothing, really. It’s a very worthy effort. Guy has his head a bit up his arse throughout, in an “am I not being teh groundbreaking?” kinda way, but you can forgive him. A friend of mine who’s into theatre borrowed it from me, and he went all “wow! What a dissection! Gotta incorporate some of this into my work!” Artistic cross-pollination and all that. Bah. Wanker.
Problem is, you can talk about the potential of “sequential art” till the cows go home, it changes the field’s parlous state not one bit. Superheroes (which in principle I don’t dislike at all) still reign supreme. The “hot” creators are for the most part movie, teevee and best-seller circuit dudes** who are well beyond their prime (pulling the rape routine every so often), the readers the scions of the direct market distribution model, a shrinking base of obsessive-compulsives who would turn the books into ongoing trivia contests if they had their way. Comic shops are guaranteed to terrify any healthy human being who’s been involved in consensual oral sex at least once in his or her life***.
More importantly, as Robert Crumb famously put it: “it’s only lines on paper, folks!” Comics don’t need to go out of their way to assert their hipness before the mainstream. Expressions like “graphic novel” are just laughably precious.
Wondering if the US will ever catch up to Japan in comics production and popularity….
I don’t think so, but I don’t care. As I said, I like my every activity to make people around me feel better about themselves. For not being me, that is.

*: itself highly contrived and stilted, obviously.

**: or worse still, wannabes in all those fields.

***: not to be implied as an indication of my personal distaste of such fine establishments.

]]> By: The Constructivist http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-179788 The Constructivist Mon, 20 Nov 2006 18:55:27 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/#comment-179788 I think Nakazawa Keiji's <i>Barefoot Gen</i> should be on any list of world-historical comics. Read it before you mock me. Unfortunately my reading abilties in Japanese are at pre-school-levels, so there may be many better ones not yet translated into English. Neil Gaiman's <i>Sandman</i> should definitely be on the must-read list. I would put Alan Moore's <i>Watchmen</i> and <i>V for Vendetta</i> there, as well, and suggest that <i>League of Extraordinary Gentlemen</i> and <i>Promethea</i> (Moore's answer to <i>Sandman</i>) will be soon. What is it with the Brits? Grant Morrison seldom does wrong. Couldn't say what his best work is. <i>The Authority</i> is worth a read, as is <i>Preacher</i>. GG, what do you have against that <i>Understanding Comics</i> dude? Wondering if the US will ever catch up to Japan in comics production and popularity.... I think Nakazawa Keiji’s Barefoot Gen should be on any list of world-historical comics. Read it before you mock me. Unfortunately my reading abilties in Japanese are at pre-school-levels, so there may be many better ones not yet translated into English.

Neil Gaiman’s Sandman should definitely be on the must-read list.

I would put Alan Moore’s Watchmen and V for Vendetta there, as well, and suggest that League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and Promethea (Moore’s answer to Sandman) will be soon.

What is it with the Brits? Grant Morrison seldom does wrong. Couldn’t say what his best work is.

The Authority is worth a read, as is Preacher.

GG, what do you have against that Understanding Comics dude?

Wondering if the US will ever catch up to Japan in comics production and popularity….

]]> By: Glorious Godfrey http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-179730 Glorious Godfrey Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:03:42 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/#comment-179730 <i> The film version of From Hell was made 100% better (which still doesn’t make it good) post facto by the film version of Lord of the Rings. </i> Boy, you got that right. Tawdry pseudo-gothic aesthetic, excessive action scenes (I didn't know that elves had the powers of Spider-man) and above all, a downgrading of Tolkien's two-dimensional but solemn characters into one-dimensional ciphers. Aragorn looked like a great guy to knock back a few pints with, but not like teh fokkin' king from teh profesies!1! And he's actually a good actor, like much of the cast. Shit directing all across the board. The film version of From Hell was made 100% better (which still doesn’t make it good) post facto by the film version of Lord of the Rings.

Boy, you got that right. Tawdry pseudo-gothic aesthetic, excessive action scenes (I didn’t know that elves had the powers of Spider-man) and above all, a downgrading of Tolkien’s two-dimensional but solemn characters into one-dimensional ciphers. Aragorn looked like a great guy to knock back a few pints with, but not like teh fokkin’ king from teh profesies

And he’s actually a good actor, like much of the cast. Shit directing all across the board.

]]> By: Tom Scudder http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-179722 Tom Scudder Mon, 20 Nov 2006 13:30:50 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/#comment-179722 The film version of From Hell was made 100% better (which still doesn't make it good) post facto by the film version of Lord of the Rings. The film version of From Hell was made 100% better (which still doesn’t make it good) post facto by the film version of Lord of the Rings.

]]> By: Glorious Godfrey http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-179715 Glorious Godfrey Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:22:32 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/#comment-179715 Crap. I wanted to add this link: http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/11/16/mainstream-superheroes-and-sexual-violence-unsurprisingly-not-mixing-well/#more-1703" Long URL, I guess. Crap. I wanted to add this link:

http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/11/16/mainstream-superheroes-and-sexual-violence-unsurprisingly-not-mixing-well/#more-1703”

Long URL, I guess.

]]> By: Glorious Godfrey http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-179714 Glorious Godfrey Mon, 20 Nov 2006 12:19:49 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/#comment-179714 <i> It’s not so much about what “the children will understand”, it’s more about avoiding the comics with the graphic rapes. </i> <a href="http://blog.newsarama.com/2006/11/16/mainstream-superheroes-and-sexual-violence-unsurprisingly-not-mixing-well/#more-1703" rel="nofollow"> Absolutely. </a> It’s not so much about what “the children will understand”, it’s more about avoiding the comics with the graphic rapes.

Absolutely.

]]> By: Jon H http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-179635 Jon H Sun, 19 Nov 2006 17:26:07 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/#comment-179635 loquacious godfrey writes: "Therefore, ignore all the condescending recommendations you’re bound to get, which will put forward stuff that “the children will understand”. " It's not so much about what "the children will understand", it's more about avoiding the comics with the graphic rapes. loquacious godfrey writes: “Therefore, ignore all the condescending recommendations you’re bound to get, which will put forward stuff that “the children will understand”. ”

It’s not so much about what “the children will understand”, it’s more about avoiding the comics with the graphic rapes.

]]> By: clew http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-179601 clew Sat, 18 Nov 2006 23:12:01 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/#comment-179601 <a href="http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/cgi-bin/gg101.cgi?date=20050221" rel="nofollow">Girl Genius</a>. Girl Genius.

]]> By: Matt Weiner http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-179581 Matt Weiner Sat, 18 Nov 2006 15:41:06 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/#comment-179581 Reading the description of the Nullifier (wow, comic books have some convoulted story lines) reminded me of Daniel Clowes's <a href="http://www.jeetheer.com/comics/clowes.htm" rel="nofollow">The Death Ray</a>. (<a href="http://blog.newsarama.com/?p=583" rel="nofollow">Soon to be....</a>) I realize this is ass-backwards. Reading the description of the Nullifier (wow, comic books have some convoulted story lines) reminded me of Daniel Clowes’s The Death Ray. (Soon to be….) I realize this is ass-backwards.

]]> By: Russell Arben Fox http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-179579 Russell Arben Fox Sat, 18 Nov 2006 13:57:02 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/#comment-179579 "It would be great to include the Ultimate Nullifier in a new edition of Hirsch’s cultural literacy dictionary." Except that the Nullifier really isn't that big a deal, is it, John? I mean, Galactus just kept on coming back, trying to eat Earth. Really, it's just another McGuffin. “It would be great to include the Ultimate Nullifier in a new edition of Hirsch’s cultural literacy dictionary.”

Except that the Nullifier really isn’t that big a deal, is it, John? I mean, Galactus just kept on coming back, trying to eat Earth. Really, it’s just another McGuffin.

]]> By: bad Jim http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-179570 bad Jim Sat, 18 Nov 2006 11:01:22 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/#comment-179570 In the hundred years since Twain's time, our progress has been has been something to celebrate, hasn't it? <blockquote>Funston's example has bred many imitators, and many ghastly additions to our history: the torturing of Filipinos by the awful "water-cure," for instance, to make them confess--what? Truth? Or lies? How can one know which it is they are telling? For under unendurable pain a man confesses anything that is required of him, true or false, and his evidence is worthless. Yet upon such evidence American officers have actually--but you know about those atrocities which the War Office has been hiding a year or two; and about General Smith's now world-celebrated order of massacre--thus summarized by the press from Major Waller's testimony:</blockquote> <blockquote>"Kill and burn—this is no time to take prisoners--the more you kill and burn, the better—Kill all above the age of ten--make Samar a howling wilderness!"</blockquote> Twain's sensibility, though, was so delicate that it seems not to have survived the twentieth century. In the hundred years since Twain’s time, our progress has been has been something to celebrate, hasn’t it?

Funston’s example has bred many imitators, and many ghastly additions to our history: the torturing of Filipinos by the awful “water-cure,” for instance, to make them confess—what? Truth? Or lies? How can one know which it is they are telling? For under unendurable pain a man confesses anything that is required of him, true or false, and his evidence is worthless. Yet upon such evidence American officers have actually—but you know about those atrocities which the War Office has been hiding a year or two; and about General Smith’s now world-celebrated order of massacre—thus summarized by the press from Major Waller’s testimony:

“Kill and burn—this is no time to take prisoners—the more you kill and burn, the better—Kill all above the age of ten—make Samar a howling wilderness!”

Twain’s sensibility, though, was so delicate that it seems not to have survived the twentieth century.

]]> By: John Holbo http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-179551 John Holbo Sat, 18 Nov 2006 03:13:20 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2006/11/17/ruuuule-the-western-sea/#comment-179551 It would be great to include the Ultimate Nullifier in a new edition of Hirsch's cultural literacy dictionary. In general there should be a lot more superheroes in such a thing. It would be great to include the Ultimate Nullifier in a new edition of Hirsch’s cultural literacy dictionary. In general there should be a lot more superheroes in such a thing.

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