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	<title>Comments on: Son of &#8220;The MLA Meme.&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-181259</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Dec 2006 16:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/#comment-181259</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I wanted to see the potential reach of a small academic blogger working on a small, academic project.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m with PZM. If that&#039;s what you wanted to know, why didn&#039;t you just ask some small* academic bloggers working on small academic projects? I get a steady 12-15 hits a day on my small academic blog**, maybe 20-25 when I actually post something. I got cited by a financial journalist once and got 100/day for about a week, and then it died down again (and I don&#039;t think the post itself made it beyond that one blog). Methodologically, a post saying &quot;I wonder how far this post will spread&quot; isn&#039;t exactly neutral - it&#039;s the next best thing to a Craig Shergold letter (or a &lt;a href=&quot;http://just.shelleypowers.com/fooflah/mocking-bird/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Thresher&#039;s offer&lt;/a&gt;).

*Five-eight, if you must know. OK, it&#039;s not &lt;b&gt;tall&lt;/b&gt;, but still...
**No names, no skyhooks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I wanted to see the potential reach of a small academic blogger working on a small, academic project.</i></p>

	<p>I&#8217;m with <span class="caps">PZM</span>. If that&#8217;s what you wanted to know, why didn&#8217;t you just ask some small* academic bloggers working on small academic projects? I get a steady 12-15 hits a day on my small academic blog**, maybe 20-25 when I actually post something. I got cited by a financial journalist once and got 100/day for about a week, and then it died down again (and I don&#8217;t think the post itself made it beyond that one blog). Methodologically, a post saying &#8220;I wonder how far this post will spread&#8221; isn&#8217;t exactly neutral &#8211; it&#8217;s the next best thing to a Craig Shergold letter (or a <a href="http://just.shelleypowers.com/fooflah/mocking-bird/" rel="nofollow"> Thresher&#8217;s offer</a>).</p>

	<p>*Five-eight, if you must know. OK, it&#8217;s not <b>tall</b>, but still&#8230;</p>
	<p>**No names, no skyhooks.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-181235</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Dec 2006 03:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/#comment-181235</guid>
		<description>The resurgence of knitting that started around 2000 was driven by female former dot-commers.  I know because while searching for work at the time, I took a part time job at an urban yarn shop and over half the staff were techies on the lookout for the next stage of their lives.

Many of these women started blogs.  People in yarn shops pointed new knitters to blogs and knitting sites.  The knitting blogs I read are, for the most part, older than the equivalent political blogs.  Of course, the size of the knits4jesus crowd shouldn&#039;t be underestimated.  But knitters are almost always something else (techie/academic/artist) primarily, so knitblogs are a link across many seemingly non-intersecting spheres.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The resurgence of knitting that started around 2000 was driven by female former dot-commers.  I know because while searching for work at the time, I took a part time job at an urban yarn shop and over half the staff were techies on the lookout for the next stage of their lives.</p>

	<p>Many of these women started blogs.  People in yarn shops pointed new knitters to blogs and knitting sites.  The knitting blogs I read are, for the most part, older than the equivalent political blogs.  Of course, the size of the knits4jesus crowd shouldn&#8217;t be underestimated.  But knitters are almost always something else (techie/academic/artist) primarily, so knitblogs are a link across many seemingly non-intersecting spheres.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-181110</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 13:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/#comment-181110</guid>
		<description>One thing knitters seem to share is an aversion to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.librarything.com/unsuggester/15540&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Moby Dick.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>One thing knitters seem to share is an aversion to <a href="http://www.librarything.com/unsuggester/15540" rel="nofollow">Moby Dick.</a></p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-181090</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 23:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/#comment-181090</guid>
		<description>No one can be trusted, Scott.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>No one can be trusted, Scott.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Eric Kaufman</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-181086</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Eric Kaufman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 20:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/#comment-181086</guid>
		<description>Fatal how?  (&lt;i&gt;looks around suspiciously&lt;/i&gt;)  What are you up to in there?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Fatal how?  (<i>looks around suspiciously</i>)  What are you up to in there?</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-181085</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 20:51:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/#comment-181085</guid>
		<description>No, Scott, you planned to fail, but succeeded. Success of the most fatal kind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>No, Scott, you planned to fail, but succeeded. Success of the most fatal kind.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Eric Kaufman</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-181084</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Eric Kaufman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 20:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/#comment-181084</guid>
		<description>PZ, while I didn&#039;t have anyone knitting during my defense--mostly because I haven&#039;t had it yet--I think you&#039;re correct to point to the knitting blogosphere as being, I don&#039;t know, unusually contemplative?  I wonder if this isn&#039;t because while knitting occupies the hands, the mind&#039;s free to roam?  This may be something to address directly to the knitting community, though.  I must say that I&#039;ve enjoyed reading all the knit-bloggers who linked to me, if only because we share a love of intentionally terrible puns.

As for its content, I thought the limited reach of my influence would keep the meme in check.  But I&#039;m happy I ran the experiment, if only because I can now cite N. Pepperell&#039;s &quot;methodology slam&quot; in my talk.  Because if &quot;the new interdisciplinary&quot; means anything, it&#039;s that people outside your tiny corner of academia can now read, evaluate and condemn your work.  

John, you can&#039;t test whether success will destroy me--I&#039;ve yet to experience any.  

Eszter, would that I could, would that I could.  (One day I&#039;ll voice my opposition to the practice of closing lectures to the unenrolled.  It&#039;ll be a call to return to the public lecture series, of the weekly sort the British Association once gave.  I would attend those in a heartbeat.  Instead, we live in a world in which I was asked to leave an undergraduate geology class because humanities graduate students aren&#039;t allowed to sit in on undergraduate science courses.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>PZ, while I didn&#8217;t have anyone knitting during my defense&#8212;mostly because I haven&#8217;t had it yet&#8212;I think you&#8217;re correct to point to the knitting blogosphere as being, I don&#8217;t know, unusually contemplative?  I wonder if this isn&#8217;t because while knitting occupies the hands, the mind&#8217;s free to roam?  This may be something to address directly to the knitting community, though.  I must say that I&#8217;ve enjoyed reading all the knit-bloggers who linked to me, if only because we share a love of intentionally terrible puns.</p>

	<p>As for its content, I thought the limited reach of my influence would keep the meme in check.  But I&#8217;m happy I ran the experiment, if only because I can now cite N. Pepperell&#8217;s &#8220;methodology slam&#8221; in my talk.  Because if &#8220;the new interdisciplinary&#8221; means anything, it&#8217;s that people outside your tiny corner of academia can now read, evaluate and condemn your work.</p>

	<p>John, you can&#8217;t test whether success will destroy me&#8212;I&#8217;ve yet to experience any.</p>

	<p>Eszter, would that I could, would that I could.  (One day I&#8217;ll voice my opposition to the practice of closing lectures to the unenrolled.  It&#8217;ll be a call to return to the public lecture series, of the weekly sort the British Association once gave.  I would attend those in a heartbeat.  Instead, we live in a world in which I was asked to leave an undergraduate geology class because humanities graduate students aren&#8217;t allowed to sit in on undergraduate science courses.)</p>
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		<title>By: Eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-181079</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 18:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/#comment-181079</guid>
		<description>Scott, having read reactions to your project, it seems to me that you have plenty to go on as to why it is problematic.  One major issue is the point PZ Myers notes in the second paragraph of his comment above.

UC-Irvine has some great sociologists and I&#039;m sure someone among them teaches a research methods course. I recommend taking such a class if you&#039;re truly interested in improving your skills in this domain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Scott, having read reactions to your project, it seems to me that you have plenty to go on as to why it is problematic.  One major issue is the point <span class="caps">PZ </span>Myers notes in the second paragraph of his comment above.</p>

	<p>UC-Irvine has some great sociologists and I&#8217;m sure someone among them teaches a research methods course. I recommend taking such a class if you&#8217;re truly interested in improving your skills in this domain.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-181054</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 11:54:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/#comment-181054</guid>
		<description>Scott Eric has been destroyed by success. He will never live this down. 

Nice knowin ya, Scott. Hoser.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Scott Eric has been destroyed by success. He will never live this down.</p>

	<p>Nice knowin ya, Scott. Hoser.</p>
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		<title>By: PZ Myers</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-181042</link>
		<dc:creator>PZ Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 05:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/#comment-181042</guid>
		<description>Knitting blogs are actually rather interesting -- it&#039;s a distinct niche with a lot of ingrown enthusiasm. You see the same kind of activity with sports blogs, and car blogs, for instance, but the thing is that knitting blogs seem to interdigitate well with academic blogs (there are a lot of academics who knit, I think. At my Ph.D. defense, there were lots of my peers and committee members knitting in my audience -- it was like a flock of Madame Defarges). The knitters seem to be a large group with diverse interests that may be a significant disseminator of ideas from one blogging category to another.

One other thing that may have scuttled Kaufman&#039;s hypothesis: this was a meme about spreading information via blogs, and that&#039;s of interest to every blogging category. If he&#039;d gone with something that was  a little less universal, maybe he would have seen the spread confined to a smaller niche. No surprise there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Knitting blogs are actually rather interesting&#8212;it&#8217;s a distinct niche with a lot of ingrown enthusiasm. You see the same kind of activity with sports blogs, and car blogs, for instance, but the thing is that knitting blogs seem to interdigitate well with academic blogs (there are a lot of academics who knit, I think. At my Ph.D. defense, there were lots of my peers and committee members knitting in my audience&#8212;it was like a flock of Madame Defarges). The knitters seem to be a large group with diverse interests that may be a significant disseminator of ideas from one blogging category to another.</p>

	<p>One other thing that may have scuttled Kaufman&#8217;s hypothesis: this was a meme about spreading information via blogs, and that&#8217;s of interest to every blogging category. If he&#8217;d gone with something that was  a little less universal, maybe he would have seen the spread confined to a smaller niche. No surprise there.</p>
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		<title>By: Randolph Fritz</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-181037</link>
		<dc:creator>Randolph Fritz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 03:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/#comment-181037</guid>
		<description>TNH put up that link at about the same time she put up a main text article on knitting, with a link to a major knitting blog.  So...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><span class="caps">TNH</span> put up that link at about the same time she put up a main text article on knitting, with a link to a major knitting blog.  So&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-181031</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 23:11:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/#comment-181031</guid>
		<description>Another interesting experiment would be for someone else to do more or less the same thing, and then after that a third person, and so on. I doubt that the next Kaufman will get many links.

But then, maybe if the academic blogosphere is left to recharge its ..... whatever blogospheres  recharge for six months or a year, someone could do this again.

I can see some nice graphs coming out of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Another interesting experiment would be for someone else to do more or less the same thing, and then after that a third person, and so on. I doubt that the next Kaufman will get many links.</p>

	<p>But then, maybe if the academic blogosphere is left to recharge its &#8230;.. whatever blogospheres  recharge for six months or a year, someone could do this again.</p>

	<p>I can see some nice graphs coming out of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jackmormon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-181028</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackmormon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 22:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/#comment-181028</guid>
		<description>The knitting blog connection: Teresa Nielsen Hayden put up a sidebar link at Making Light. Or at least that&#039;s my guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The knitting blog connection: Teresa Nielsen Hayden put up a sidebar link at Making Light. Or at least that&#8217;s my guess.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Eric Kaufman</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-181024</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Eric Kaufman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 22:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/#comment-181024</guid>
		<description>Eszter, I appreciate not piling it on, but I wouldn&#039;t have minded if you had.  I consider this--by which I mean, the criticisms both private and public--my reintroduction to the social sciences and statistics.  (I haven&#039;t touched statistics, for example, since my undergraduate days.)  

Had my hypothesis been correct, I wouldn&#039;t have needed a reintroduction to anything, though, as I would&#039;ve been able to count the number of responses on one hand, two &lt;i&gt;tops&lt;/i&gt;.  My original point, as Scott mentioned, was that despite the blogosphere&#039;s free-wheeling reputation, its academic corners maintain many  traditional hierarchies; the only exception being the student/graduate student/professor one, but I think everyone considers that a benefit because it initiates and/or accelerates the professionalization process.  (Which would mean, &lt;i&gt;vis-a-vis&lt;/i&gt; my overall argument, that interdisciplinary input would be neither more nor less respectable, merely more accessible.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Eszter, I appreciate not piling it on, but I wouldn&#8217;t have minded if you had.  I consider this&#8212;by which I mean, the criticisms both private and public&#8212;my reintroduction to the social sciences and statistics.  (I haven&#8217;t touched statistics, for example, since my undergraduate days.)</p>

	<p>Had my hypothesis been correct, I wouldn&#8217;t have needed a reintroduction to anything, though, as I would&#8217;ve been able to count the number of responses on one hand, two <i>tops</i>.  My original point, as Scott mentioned, was that despite the blogosphere&#8217;s free-wheeling reputation, its academic corners maintain many  traditional hierarchies; the only exception being the student/graduate student/professor one, but I think everyone considers that a benefit because it initiates and/or accelerates the professionalization process.  (Which would mean, <i>vis-a-vis</i> my overall argument, that interdisciplinary input would be neither more nor less respectable, merely more accessible.)</p>
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		<title>By: Eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/comment-page-1/#comment-181021</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 21:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/01/son-of-the-mla-meme/#comment-181021</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t comment on this the first time around, because I saw too many problems with it to even try to fit into a comment (or my schedule).  

I&#039;ll just take a noteworthy snippet out of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.roughtheory.org/content/methodology-slam/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Methodology Slam&lt;/a&gt; post:

&lt;ul&gt;I suggested to Scott that he put all of this criticism to productive use at the MLA conference - prove the value of internet academic discussion, by challenging his panel audience to see whether they can come up with as many reasons that his methodology is “crap”. ;-P&lt;/ul&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I didn&#8217;t comment on this the first time around, because I saw too many problems with it to even try to fit into a comment (or my schedule).</p>

	<p>I&#8217;ll just take a noteworthy snippet out of the <a href="http://www.roughtheory.org/content/methodology-slam/" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Methodology Slam</a> post:</p>

	<p><ul>I suggested to Scott that he put all of this criticism to productive use at the <span class="caps">MLA</span> conference &#8211; prove the value of internet academic discussion, by challenging his panel audience to see whether they can come up with as many reasons that his methodology is &#8220;crap&#8221;. ;-P</ul></p><p></p>
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