Comments on: Give thanks

By: Roy Belmont

Roy Belmont — Tue, 12 Dec 2006 21:49:00 +0000

Some of us are working with the idea that anti-Castro fervor has a lot less to do with ideology than with revenge and retaliation.
The powers that ran Bautista’s Cuba weren’t Cuban.
So what Castro fought his way through wasn’t local. And it wasn’t the capitalist aspect of that Yanqui presence that created such violent rejection. It was the corruption, the inhuman machinery under the glitter of anything-goes Havana, where, just like in every other fleshpot in the world, the toll in human misery behind the scenes was immense, and in this case almost entirely Cuban.
Meyer Lansky was running Cuba, Meyer Lansky was run out of Cuba, Meyer Lansky got very mad about that – and how come nobody knows this?
And where is Meyer Lansky now?
Where indeed.

By: Barry

Barry — Tue, 12 Dec 2006 19:27:25 +0000

radek: “God damn are you a stupid asshole. And I mean both of these; stupid. asshole. See, that’s what’s called a composite thought, saying two things in one sentence or post. As in Castro bad, Pinochet bad.”

But not as in coming into a thread celebrating Pinochet’s death, and threadjacking it, in an attempt to turn it into an anti-Castor thread.

“You have trouble comprehending that this is possible for some people and seem unable to get past the first part.”

Truth and you just don’t hang out much together, right?

“I can see you sitting there scratching your head, looking at the computer screen really, really wanting to comprehend ;”Castro? Castro bad?” (Barry makes a confused sad face) “Castro not bad!… then, then….. Pinochet good? Nooooooooooo!” (Bangs table with fist in outrage. Types quickly a creepy Freudian projection response). The End.”

That gave me a chuckle.

“Hey, I don’t start these fights. I just accidentally provoke’em.”

Again, truth and you don’t get together much, do they?

By: Bobcat

Bobcat — Tue, 12 Dec 2006 15:32:52 +0000

radek,

I stand corrected on the Castro figures. I didn’t know he killed so many people (I thought he was a dictator who was mainly terrible for Cuba’s economy and their gay community).

By: abb1

abb1 — Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:11:07 +0000

No, seriously, a while ago we were talking about Iraq and someone (I think it was Soru) argued that it would be good for Iraq to become a US protectorate. Iraq would accept the US-promoted economic system, guarantee good treatment to the US-based businesses, support US geopolitical interests. In return the US would provide defense, guarantee stability, aid, etc. I think this is a honest argument, backed by some empirical evidence. Sure, there is plenty of evidence against it as well, but nevertheless it’s a reasonable argument (“utilitarian” – you guys call it?).

If you take this side, then Pinochet has to be a good guy – sure, you don’t generally approve the methods, but someone had to do it for the good of the country. Frame it this way and then we can talk; the ‘human rights’ thing is not serious.

By: Mark Conrad

Mark Conrad — Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:38:28 +0000

The Dance Floor on his grave better be pretty damn big, and the BBQ in Hell, also.

By: Roy Belmont

Roy Belmont — Tue, 12 Dec 2006 04:26:35 +0000

Now let’s argue about whether Victor Jara died with his hands on.

By: radek

radek — Tue, 12 Dec 2006 04:02:57 +0000

Barbar, obviously Pinochet and Castro are much more comparable then either one of them with anyone you mention above. Why does this have to be made obvious?

By: radek

radek — Tue, 12 Dec 2006 02:44:34 +0000

It’s true, I do dislike Allende. And I do dislike the unwarrented idealization of him by some of the left. But there’s a difference between disliking someone and detesting them. Yeah, for all his faults Allende was much better then Pinochet. Allende wrecked Chile’s economy, polarized the society, had authoriterian tendencies and did much to create the situation which brought about the coup. I dislike him because if hadn’t screwed things up so bad then Pinochet might’ve never happened (despite what abb1 says). But he wasn’t a murderer like Pinochet (partly because he let MRL do the dirty work for him).

By: franck

franck — Tue, 12 Dec 2006 01:47:04 +0000

Here’s the part I don’t get, radek. If you are against killing, why aren’t you more in favor of Allende than Pinochet? After all, Allende didn’t kill anyone (except possibly himself), while Pinochet is on record of ordering the deaths of thousands.

If you are anti-killing, it seems to me the choice is easy, but you seem to have a great dislike for Allende. Care to explain?

By: radek

radek — Tue, 12 Dec 2006 01:41:39 +0000

God damn are you a stupid asshole. And I mean both of these; stupid. asshole. See, that’s what’s called a composite thought, saying two things in one sentence or post. As in Castro bad, Pinochet bad. You have trouble comprehending that this is possible for some people and seem unable to get past the first part. I can see you sitting there scratching your head, looking at the computer screen really, really wanting to comprehend ;”Castro? Castro bad?” (Barry makes a confused sad face) “Castro not bad!… then, then….. Pinochet good? Nooooooooooo!” (Bangs table with fist in outrage. Types quickly a creepy Freudian projection response). The End.

Hey, I don’t start these fights. I just accidentally provoke’em.

By: Barry

Barry — Tue, 12 Dec 2006 01:23:02 +0000

Oh, just to help – one standard next step would be to feign disinterest in the conversation, and to express puzzlement over why anybody would care (after making so many posts, of course, but what’s honesty good for?). Then announce that you’re bored, and going elsewhere.

By: Barry

Barry — Tue, 12 Dec 2006 01:21:44 +0000

Radek, don’t even try. It’s clear what you were trying to do. I don’t see that anybody here is fooled. Admit it. You like the guy.

By: radek

radek — Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:59:22 +0000

Barry, in light of your response above, the nicest thing I can assume about you is that you are incapable of understanding certain symbols when they’re strung together in certain patterns. Or perhaps the meaning behind these symbols becomes unimportant to you as you strenously labor at mouthing the letters out loud.

Novakant, it should be easy, shouldn’t it? Apparantly it’s not.

By: novakant

novakant — Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:24:39 +0000

actually it’s pretty easy pretty easy to position yourself in such debates, that is, if you happen to have a principled stance on the universality of human rights

By: Barry

Barry — Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:57:56 +0000

Radek: “There’s room for more than one bad guy here.

From your posts, there seems to be only room for one – Castro.

“And don’t tell me what I have or have not chosen. I haven’t ascribed any ill intentions to you. Yet.”

Oh, jeez. You think that the respect of a faux-libertarian right-winger with a hard-on for Pinochet is something that I worry about losing?