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	<title>Comments on: Charging for consumption of public goods.</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: JR</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/comment-page-1/#comment-181984</link>
		<dc:creator>JR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Dec 2006 17:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/#comment-181984</guid>
		<description>Pubic radio (not just NPR) is not the sort of &quot;good&quot; that listeners would want to restrict to those who pay for it.  I listen and pay for public radio and to my mind the more people who listen to it, the better, whether they pay for it or not.  The coverage is hampered by many of the MSM vices, but at least it&#039;s more thorough and less inclined to lunacy or idiocy than other radio news and talk.  I don&#039;t want to be part of a small coterie that has some grasp on reality- I want all Americans, whether in New York or Nebraska, to have an alternative to the Clear Channel ranters and the cable news fantasists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Pubic radio (not just <span class="caps">NPR</span>) is not the sort of &#8220;good&#8221; that listeners would want to restrict to those who pay for it.  I listen and pay for public radio and to my mind the more people who listen to it, the better, whether they pay for it or not.  The coverage is hampered by many of the <span class="caps">MSM</span> vices, but at least it&#8217;s more thorough and less inclined to lunacy or idiocy than other radio news and talk.  I don&#8217;t want to be part of a small coterie that has some grasp on reality- I want all Americans, whether in New York or Nebraska, to have an alternative to the Clear Channel ranters and the cable news fantasists.</p>
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		<title>By: yo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/comment-page-1/#comment-181973</link>
		<dc:creator>yo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Dec 2006 06:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/#comment-181973</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s something in Nozick somewhere about accidentally overhearing music for a concert series you didn&#039;t contribute to and the permissibility of listening to it. If you couldn&#039;t help it. NPR is a bit like that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There&#8217;s something in Nozick somewhere about accidentally overhearing music for a concert series you didn&#8217;t contribute to and the permissibility of listening to it. If you couldn&#8217;t help it. <span class="caps">NPR</span> is a bit like that.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Kvetch</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/comment-page-1/#comment-181956</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Kvetch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 18:46:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/#comment-181956</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I probably spend a similar amount of time listening to BBC7. On my new website I mention that it could have been dreamed up just for me&lt;/i&gt;

I feel much the same way about BBC6, the digital-only alternative music channel, which I listen to daily via its Internet stream. Only I&#039;m not British, so I don&#039;t have the option of paying for it, even if I wanted to.

Not sure what my point is either, other than to say to all the Brits out there...uh, thanks, you guys.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I probably spend a similar amount of time listening to <span class="caps">BBC7</span>. On my new website I mention that it could have been dreamed up just for me</i></p>

	<p>I feel much the same way about <span class="caps">BBC6</span>, the digital-only alternative music channel, which I listen to daily via its Internet stream. Only I&#8217;m not British, so I don&#8217;t have the option of paying for it, even if I wanted to.</p>

	<p>Not sure what my point is either, other than to say to all the Brits out there&#8230;uh, thanks, you guys.</p>
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		<title>By: sanbikinoraion</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/comment-page-1/#comment-181948</link>
		<dc:creator>sanbikinoraion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 15:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/#comment-181948</guid>
		<description>Why not send the BBC a cheque if you like it so much?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Why not send the <span class="caps">BBC</span> a cheque if you like it so much?</p>
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		<title>By: Have3</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/comment-page-1/#comment-181946</link>
		<dc:creator>Have3</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 15:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/#comment-181946</guid>
		<description>OK - so what about taxes and the so-called &quot;benefits&quot; shared by all - from police protection (a no-brainer)to funding of the military complex (more problematic). I would much rather choose which things to fund as that would give me more immediate control, but we have to settle for trying to express our preferences through the political process. 

So what about funding a local playground (through taxes) that I no longer use but am happy exists because I think that communities should have them. I also think we should have NPR so I send them money. If I change my mind on either of these things I can&#039;t have much effect on their existance, but I feel better about being able to stop those contributions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><span class="caps">OK </span>- so what about taxes and the so-called &#8220;benefits&#8221; shared by all &#8211; from police protection (a no-brainer)to funding of the military complex (more problematic). I would much rather choose which things to fund as that would give me more immediate control, but we have to settle for trying to express our preferences through the political process.</p>

	<p>So what about funding a local playground (through taxes) that I no longer use but am happy exists because I think that communities should have them. I also think we should have <span class="caps">NPR</span> so I send them money. If I change my mind on either of these things I can&#8217;t have much effect on their existance, but I feel better about being able to stop those contributions.</p>
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		<title>By: nick s</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/comment-page-1/#comment-181939</link>
		<dc:creator>nick s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 10:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/#comment-181939</guid>
		<description>Americans who consider the BBC highbrow have probably not been exposed to BBC THREE.

My take on BBC7 is that it&#039;s essentially a sunk cost in terms of content, albeit with some residual costs. The stuff in the can has been paid for by licence money, and there&#039;s no excuse in the digital era for it not to be made available.

Anyway, there&#039;s a corollary here: the public funding model making it difficult to exploit private funding because it can&#039;t justify rights negotiation beyond its broadcast purview. In short, I&#039;d like to be able to pay for Test Match Special, but I can&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Americans who consider the <span class="caps">BBC</span> highbrow have probably not been exposed to <span class="caps">BBC THREE</span>.</p>

	<p>My take on <span class="caps">BBC7</span> is that it&#8217;s essentially a sunk cost in terms of content, albeit with some residual costs. The stuff in the can has been paid for by licence money, and there&#8217;s no excuse in the digital era for it not to be made available.</p>

	<p>Anyway, there&#8217;s a corollary here: the public funding model making it difficult to exploit private funding because it can&#8217;t justify rights negotiation beyond its broadcast purview. In short, I&#8217;d like to be able to pay for Test Match Special, but I can&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Winder</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/comment-page-1/#comment-181918</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Winder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 02:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/#comment-181918</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pretty sure you&#039;re already supporting NPR just by listening to their advertisements, just like any commercial station.  You don&#039;t think Target and ADM voluntarily &quot;underwrite&quot; NPR programming out of the kindness of their hearts, do you?  The whole ad-free claim is silly, especially since the type of marketing that NPR does is much more subtle than your average FM station (Let us tell you about the ten best Gizmos/Books/Wines/Mutual Funds to give your friends and family for Christmas!  Just for your information of course).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure you&#8217;re already supporting <span class="caps">NPR</span> just by listening to their advertisements, just like any commercial station.  You don&#8217;t think Target and <span class="caps">ADM</span> voluntarily &#8220;underwrite&#8221; <span class="caps">NPR</span> programming out of the kindness of their hearts, do you?  The whole ad-free claim is silly, especially since the type of marketing that <span class="caps">NPR</span> does is much more subtle than your average FM station (Let us tell you about the ten best Gizmos/Books/Wines/Mutual Funds to give your friends and family for Christmas!  Just for your information of course).</p>
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		<title>By: radek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/comment-page-1/#comment-181915</link>
		<dc:creator>radek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 02:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/#comment-181915</guid>
		<description>I too have trouble understanding exactly what it 
is you&#039;re saying. But the following strikes me as wrong headed:


&lt;i&gt;But BBC7 is quite different; not only do I plan around it, but if I’d had the choice between paying for it and not getting it I’d have chosen the former (at an embarrassingly high price).&lt;/i&gt;

So if NPR cost you 1$ per year automatically deducted from your paycheck in 12 installments, you&#039;d balk? It sounds like you&#039;re just saying that you don&#039;t value NPR all that much and so don&#039;t feel bad about not contributing to it. But you like BBC7 enough to have pangs of guilt about not contributing to it.

In an ideal world the charge for public goods would be proportional to a person&#039;s valuation of that good with the sum covering the costs of production. Of course this requires that whoever sets these charges knows exactly how much every relevant person values the good, which means that there&#039;s an incentive to misrepresent one&#039;s valuation (NPR? What&#039;s that?). There&#039;s a huge literature on how to get at a efficient/just solution (or second best) in the face of this ignorance. Pivotal consumers, mechanism design, price discrimination etc.
In practice NPR (I don&#039;t know much about how BBC7 does it) funds itself by turning donating to it into a status good. Which is why you get a mug or a t-shirt or whatever so that you can let the world and all your office coworkers know what a decent enlightened intellectual you are. Which means the ones who donate are the ones who really like it, who really care about this particular kind of status and those whose conciencse won&#039;t let them sleep at night.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I too have trouble understanding exactly what it<br />
is you&#8217;re saying. But the following strikes me as wrong headed:</p>


	<p><i>But <span class="caps">BBC7</span> is quite different; not only do I plan around it, but if I&#8217;d had the choice between paying for it and not getting it I&#8217;d have chosen the former (at an embarrassingly high price).</i></p>

	<p>So if <span class="caps">NPR</span> cost you 1$ per year automatically deducted from your paycheck in 12 installments, you&#8217;d balk? It sounds like you&#8217;re just saying that you don&#8217;t value <span class="caps">NPR</span> all that much and so don&#8217;t feel bad about not contributing to it. But you like <span class="caps">BBC7</span> enough to have pangs of guilt about not contributing to it.</p>

	<p>In an ideal world the charge for public goods would be proportional to a person&#8217;s valuation of that good with the sum covering the costs of production. Of course this requires that whoever sets these charges knows exactly how much every relevant person values the good, which means that there&#8217;s an incentive to misrepresent one&#8217;s valuation (NPR? What&#8217;s that?). There&#8217;s a huge literature on how to get at a efficient/just solution (or second best) in the face of this ignorance. Pivotal consumers, mechanism design, price discrimination etc.<br />
In practice <span class="caps">NPR </span>(I don&#8217;t know much about how <span class="caps">BBC7</span> does it) funds itself by turning donating to it into a status good. Which is why you get a mug or a t-shirt or whatever so that you can let the world and all your office coworkers know what a decent enlightened intellectual you are. Which means the ones who donate are the ones who really like it, who really care about this particular kind of status and those whose conciencse won&#8217;t let them sleep at night.</p>
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		<title>By: dr</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/comment-page-1/#comment-181912</link>
		<dc:creator>dr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 01:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/#comment-181912</guid>
		<description>Who is this &lt;i&gt;they&lt;/i&gt; that is going to force you to make these payments? Presumably we&#039;re talking about a (more or less) democratic regime of which you are a citizen.  It seems to me that being forced to pay in these cases is analagous to being forced to obey any other law, so I don&#039;t see where you have a complaint in either case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Who is this <i>they</i> that is going to force you to make these payments? Presumably we&#8217;re talking about a (more or less) democratic regime of which you are a citizen.  It seems to me that being forced to pay in these cases is analagous to being forced to obey any other law, so I don&#8217;t see where you have a complaint in either case.</p>
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		<title>By: Kenny Easwaran</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/comment-page-1/#comment-181908</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenny Easwaran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Dec 2006 00:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/#comment-181908</guid>
		<description>This is how I feel about my wireless internet.  I pay for it, but I don&#039;t really see that it&#039;s a bother for me if other people use it (since they don&#039;t disturb my download rates much), so I leave it open.  And despite living in a largeish apartment building in downtown Berkeley, where a dozen or so wireless networks are visible at any time, I&#039;m pretty sure that mine is the only one without password protection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This is how I feel about my wireless internet.  I pay for it, but I don&#8217;t really see that it&#8217;s a bother for me if other people use it (since they don&#8217;t disturb my download rates much), so I leave it open.  And despite living in a largeish apartment building in downtown Berkeley, where a dozen or so wireless networks are visible at any time, I&#8217;m pretty sure that mine is the only one without password protection.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/comment-page-1/#comment-181907</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 23:03:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/#comment-181907</guid>
		<description>This is about whether coercion is legitimated only by claims of justice isn&#039;t it? You want to show that it isn&#039;t necessary to for it to be required to provide a good or service to legitimate coercing people to provide it, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This is about whether coercion is legitimated only by claims of justice isn&#8217;t it? You want to show that it isn&#8217;t necessary to for it to be required to provide a good or service to legitimate coercing people to provide it, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/comment-page-1/#comment-181901</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/#comment-181901</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad that now that the toilet seat issue has been solved that folks are now using their big brains to figure out the best way to think about public radio.

Are these really the issues that folks like to think about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m glad that now that the toilet seat issue has been solved that folks are now using their big brains to figure out the best way to think about public radio.</p>

	<p>Are these really the issues that folks like to think about?</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon Berg</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/comment-page-1/#comment-181899</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Berg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 22:02:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/#comment-181899</guid>
		<description>Is this about the inefficiencies created by using IP laws to restrict consumption of nonrivalrous goods by those in the tail of the demand curve?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Is this about the inefficiencies created by using IP laws to restrict consumption of nonrivalrous goods by those in the tail of the demand curve?</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/comment-page-1/#comment-181890</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 21:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/#comment-181890</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;They are, essentially, for the high-brow (or upper-middle brow) listeners...&lt;/i&gt;

They are for those who contribute. In new New England they are upper-middle class with a lot of BBC and nuanced liberal political coverage. Some stations are playing nothing but blues or classical music; and in Berkeley, for example, they play jazz and things like Democracy Now! 

To whatever extent it&#039;s paid by the contributions, it truly is a listener&#039;s driven form of radio, unlike the commercial stuff. If you don&#039;t like it, you shouldn&#039;t contribute; you&#039;re not supposed to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>They are, essentially, for the high-brow (or upper-middle brow) listeners&#8230;</i></p>

	<p>They are for those who contribute. In new New England they are upper-middle class with a lot of <span class="caps">BBC</span> and nuanced liberal political coverage. Some stations are playing nothing but blues or classical music; and in Berkeley, for example, they play jazz and things like Democracy Now!</p>

	<p>To whatever extent it&#8217;s paid by the contributions, it truly is a listener&#8217;s driven form of radio, unlike the commercial stuff. If you don&#8217;t like it, you shouldn&#8217;t contribute; you&#8217;re not supposed to.</p>
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		<title>By: leederick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/comment-page-1/#comment-181886</link>
		<dc:creator>leederick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Dec 2006 20:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/11/charging-for-consumption-of-public-goods/#comment-181886</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t this just a relatively simple point about preferences?

If Harry is willing to pay $X for access to BBC7, then it doesn&#039;t matter whether he pays $X for access to BBC7 as a private good or the same amount for access to BBC7 as a public good. In either case he satisfies his preference by getting BBC7, and pays what he would be willing to part with for it. He is better off than he would be if he could not get access to BBC7 for $X.

However, as he is willing to pay $X for something other than access to NPR, he could complain were he made to pay $X for NPR. He does have a preference between private and public provision here. Public provision would prevent him from fulfilling his preference to spend his money on something else, and would make him worse off.

Or am I missing something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Isn&#8217;t this just a relatively simple point about preferences?</p>

	<p>If Harry is willing to pay $X for access to <span class="caps">BBC7</span>, then it doesn&#8217;t matter whether he pays $X for access to <span class="caps">BBC7</span> as a private good or the same amount for access to <span class="caps">BBC7</span> as a public good. In either case he satisfies his preference by getting <span class="caps">BBC7</span>, and pays what he would be willing to part with for it. He is better off than he would be if he could not get access to <span class="caps">BBC7</span> for $X.</p>

	<p>However, as he is willing to pay $X for something other than access to <span class="caps">NPR</span>, he could complain were he made to pay $X for <span class="caps">NPR</span>. He does have a preference between private and public provision here. Public provision would prevent him from fulfilling his preference to spend his money on something else, and would make him worse off.</p>

	<p>Or am I missing something?</p>
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