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	<title>Comments on: Not Even Lost in Translation</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/19/not-even-lost-in-translation/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: ben wolfson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/19/not-even-lost-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-182490</link>
		<dc:creator>ben wolfson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/19/not-even-lost-in-translation/#comment-182490</guid>
		<description>No one gets paid to publish scholarly articles or give conference papers.  If translations started carrying water with tenure committees, I bet publishers would be able to pay the translators significantly less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>No one gets paid to publish scholarly articles or give conference papers.  If translations started carrying water with tenure committees, I bet publishers would be able to pay the translators significantly less.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/19/not-even-lost-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-182422</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/19/not-even-lost-in-translation/#comment-182422</guid>
		<description>Very little Portuguese literature is familiar in English translation. I have a very basic reading knowledge of Portuguese and have become fascinated by the strange and wonderful Renaissance fiction &quot;Menina e Moca&quot;. It&#039;s unquestionably a great classic of Portuguese literature, and the strange aspects which made it unappealing a century ago (uncertain genre, traces of odd heresies, overt feminism, questions about the sanity of the narrator) would make it appealing now.

I have no idea why it hasn&#039;t been translated. I even considered translating it myself, but that would be a lot of work, and my reward would presumably  be an expert review saiyng soething like &quot;Mr. Emerson is certainly to be commended for his effort at translation. His frequent mistranslations, however, make his work useless or misleading for the English-language audience. A competent translator should be found to provide the scholarly world with a usable version of this fine work&quot;.  And I&#039;m not willing to spend months of my life motivating the enormous egos of the scholarly world to do something someone should have done centuries ago.

I frequently find English-language books about authors in languages I am able to read (often major  authors previously pretty much unknown in English) provide no help for monolingual English readers -- no translation, no appreciation. The foreign-language text is treated purely as the object of literary analysis.  This problem is especially prominent in published PhD dissertations, but I know of one case of a scholar who was forced by his committee to translate the text he was working on, but who removed the translation when his work was finally published.

Just that much more evidence for my thesis that humanities graduate schools are bad places and that no one should ever go there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Very little Portuguese literature is familiar in English translation. I have a very basic reading knowledge of Portuguese and have become fascinated by the strange and wonderful Renaissance fiction &#8220;Menina e Moca&#8221;. It&#8217;s unquestionably a great classic of Portuguese literature, and the strange aspects which made it unappealing a century ago (uncertain genre, traces of odd heresies, overt feminism, questions about the sanity of the narrator) would make it appealing now.</p>

	<p>I have no idea why it hasn&#8217;t been translated. I even considered translating it myself, but that would be a lot of work, and my reward would presumably  be an expert review saiyng soething like &#8220;Mr. Emerson is certainly to be commended for his effort at translation. His frequent mistranslations, however, make his work useless or misleading for the English-language audience. A competent translator should be found to provide the scholarly world with a usable version of this fine work&#8221;.  And I&#8217;m not willing to spend months of my life motivating the enormous egos of the scholarly world to do something someone should have done centuries ago.</p>

	<p>I frequently find English-language books about authors in languages I am able to read (often major  authors previously pretty much unknown in English) provide no help for monolingual English readers&#8212;no translation, no appreciation. The foreign-language text is treated purely as the object of literary analysis.  This problem is especially prominent in published PhD dissertations, but I know of one case of a scholar who was forced by his committee to translate the text he was working on, but who removed the translation when his work was finally published.</p>

	<p>Just that much more evidence for my thesis that humanities graduate schools are bad places and that no one should ever go there.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/19/not-even-lost-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-182409</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 11:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/19/not-even-lost-in-translation/#comment-182409</guid>
		<description>Naja, ist es nicht klar, dass in Zeiten der Globalisierung, Uebersetzung so gut wie ueberflussig ist?

Andererseits koennte akademische Anerkennung hilfreich sein. Die Bezahlung an dem Autor bzw. Verlag muss irgendwie geregelt sein, aber auf eine Papierversion koennte verzichtet werden. Das wuerde heissen das der Akademiker die Uebersetzung macht und laesst es zirkulieren im elektronischen Form; man muss dennoch fuer die Rechte bezahlen, aber der Rest ist gesehen als Teil der akademischen Arbeit, aehnlich wie Konferenzpapiere. Das Problem das Scott hervorhebt bleibt, aber die Probleme, die die Universitaetspressen betonen, sind nicht unbedingt wichtig.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Naja, ist es nicht klar, dass in Zeiten der Globalisierung, Uebersetzung so gut wie ueberflussig ist?</p>

	<p>Andererseits koennte akademische Anerkennung hilfreich sein. Die Bezahlung an dem Autor bzw. Verlag muss irgendwie geregelt sein, aber auf eine Papierversion koennte verzichtet werden. Das wuerde heissen das der Akademiker die Uebersetzung macht und laesst es zirkulieren im elektronischen Form; man muss dennoch fuer die Rechte bezahlen, aber der Rest ist gesehen als Teil der akademischen Arbeit, aehnlich wie Konferenzpapiere. Das Problem das Scott hervorhebt bleibt, aber die Probleme, die die Universitaetspressen betonen, sind nicht unbedingt wichtig.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Denison Chapin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/19/not-even-lost-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-182404</link>
		<dc:creator>Denison Chapin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 09:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/19/not-even-lost-in-translation/#comment-182404</guid>
		<description>There must be an academic translation.  I would hate quoting a third person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There must be an academic translation.  I would hate quoting a third person.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Wissoker</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/19/not-even-lost-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-182396</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Wissoker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 05:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/19/not-even-lost-in-translation/#comment-182396</guid>
		<description>Scott, I don&#039;t think the translation of Badiou is a problem.  We have one book under contract, I&#039;m sure that Minnesota has at least that many.  The problem is the equally rewarding thinker that&#039;s not the next likely theory star.

At Duke University Press we had a discussion about this at our editorial board last week.  Alice Kaplan (author of French Lessons, The Interpreter, etc. and a frequent translator from the French for Nebraska and Chicago) talked about this as an ethical obligation in the profession and pointed out the huge imbalence between what is translated out of English versus what is translated in.  Statistically the U.S. is pretty much at the bottom for translation in, and your main point, that academic credit might help, is certainly right.

From a press point of view the problem is that to have the rights to translate (as opposed to bootlegging for free) the press pays more to the French publisher than they would generally pay to an English language author writing the same book.  Then to pay for translation adds about 6000-12,000 on top of that.  There are small grants that might pay a third to a half of that but even so, the costs are very high.  Then the only things that seem like smart decisions are the pre-assured sales, like the next big theory person.  Badiou?  Great! What happens to the Korean or Javanese intellectual&#039;s equivalent book that doesn&#039;t start with the same buzz?  How do we learn about those?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Scott, I don&#8217;t think the translation of Badiou is a problem.  We have one book under contract, I&#8217;m sure that Minnesota has at least that many.  The problem is the equally rewarding thinker that&#8217;s not the next likely theory star.</p>

	<p>At Duke University Press we had a discussion about this at our editorial board last week.  Alice Kaplan (author of French Lessons, The Interpreter, etc. and a frequent translator from the French for Nebraska and Chicago) talked about this as an ethical obligation in the profession and pointed out the huge imbalence between what is translated out of English versus what is translated in.  Statistically the U.S. is pretty much at the bottom for translation in, and your main point, that academic credit might help, is certainly right.</p>

	<p>From a press point of view the problem is that to have the rights to translate (as opposed to bootlegging for free) the press pays more to the French publisher than they would generally pay to an English language author writing the same book.  Then to pay for translation adds about 6000-12,000 on top of that.  There are small grants that might pay a third to a half of that but even so, the costs are very high.  Then the only things that seem like smart decisions are the pre-assured sales, like the next big theory person.  Badiou?  Great! What happens to the Korean or Javanese intellectual&#8217;s equivalent book that doesn&#8217;t start with the same buzz?  How do we learn about those?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: john bragg</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/19/not-even-lost-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-182389</link>
		<dc:creator>john bragg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 03:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/19/not-even-lost-in-translation/#comment-182389</guid>
		<description>The monolingual cynic says that since translation is hard work relative to writing conference papers, there is an institutional interest in denigrating translation and in inflating the importance of writing esoteric bullshit.*

* Not all conference papers are bs, of course, many are valuable contributions to the stock of human learning.  However, if you&#039;re going to evaluate someone for expertise, I&#039;ll take the guy who can successfully and usefully translate Gramsci&#039;s letters over the guy who can spin an argument about what the letters (in translation or in the original) signify about power relations, Freudian dynamics, splits within the global Marxist movement, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The monolingual cynic says that since translation is hard work relative to writing conference papers, there is an institutional interest in denigrating translation and in inflating the importance of writing esoteric bullshit.*</p>

	<ul>
		<li>Not all conference papers are bs, of course, many are valuable contributions to the stock of human learning.  However, if you&#8217;re going to evaluate someone for expertise, I&#8217;ll take the guy who can successfully and usefully translate Gramsci&#8217;s letters over the guy who can spin an argument about what the letters (in translation or in the original) signify about power relations, Freudian dynamics, splits within the global Marxist movement, etc.</li>
	</ul>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Bob Violence</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/19/not-even-lost-in-translation/comment-page-1/#comment-182386</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Violence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 02:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2006/12/19/not-even-lost-in-translation/#comment-182386</guid>
		<description>Thank god for the internet, where we can circulate our samizdat translations away from the oppresive gaze of tenure committees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thank god for the internet, where we can circulate our samizdat translations away from the oppresive gaze of tenure committees.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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