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	<title>Comments on: Kavalier and Clay</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: aa</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/comment-page-1/#comment-183598</link>
		<dc:creator>aa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jan 2007 05:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/#comment-183598</guid>
		<description>Oh I never seen a book of
That ole jokester V. Nabokov
An I gotta say&#039;m sevvul yeeers behind
(I&#039;m so behind!)
Gonna take up Edmond Dantes
Then I&#039;ll mebbee let Cervantes&#039; 
Donkey shoot up all the windmills of my mind.
#17. Went into Black Hole optimistically expecting to wallow in a surreal mudbath of adolescent angst and found my wallowing quotient rapidly exhausted. I think you had to be there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Oh I never seen a book of<br />
That ole jokester V. Nabokov<br />
An I gotta say&#8217;m sevvul yeeers behind<br />
(I&#8217;m so behind!)<br />
Gonna take up Edmond Dantes<br />
Then I&#8217;ll mebbee let Cervantes&#8217;<br />
Donkey shoot up all the windmills of my mind.</p>
	<p>#17. Went into Black Hole optimistically expecting to wallow in a surreal mudbath of adolescent angst and found my wallowing quotient rapidly exhausted. I think you had to be there.</p>
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		<title>By: Glorious Godfrey</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/comment-page-1/#comment-183434</link>
		<dc:creator>Glorious Godfrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 23:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/#comment-183434</guid>
		<description>I forgot those:

&quot;Optic Nerve&quot; by A. Tomine is no big shakes IMO, but it´s certainly not bad.

If the wife has shown some affinity for European comics, it´s likely that &quot;Berlin&quot;, an ongoing series by Jason Lutes, will be up her alley.

Marjane Satrapi´s stuff (Persepolis, Embroideries, etc.) should prove interesting. If the wife´s a terrorist-appeasing pinko, the tale of Satrapi´s life between Iran and the West will warm the cockles of her bleeding heart. If she´s a  neoconette, well, know thine enemy and all that.

JLA/Avengers. 

No, really.

I mean, Superman vs. Thor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I forgot those:</p>

	<p>&#8220;Optic Nerve&#8221; by A. Tomine is no big shakes <span class="caps">IMO</span>, but it&#180;s certainly not bad.</p>

	<p>If the wife has shown some affinity for European comics, it&#180;s likely that &#8220;Berlin&#8221;, an ongoing series by Jason Lutes, will be up her alley.</p>

	<p>Marjane Satrapi&#180;s stuff (Persepolis, Embroideries, etc.) should prove interesting. If the wife&#180;s a terrorist-appeasing pinko, the tale of Satrapi&#180;s life between Iran and the West will warm the cockles of her bleeding heart. If she&#180;s a  neoconette, well, know thine enemy and all that.</p>

	<p><span class="caps">JLA</span>/Avengers.</p>

	<p>No, really.</p>

	<p>I mean, Superman vs. Thor.</p>
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		<title>By: MaryLou</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/comment-page-1/#comment-183432</link>
		<dc:creator>MaryLou</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 21:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/#comment-183432</guid>
		<description>For your wife - a great graphic novel/autobiography: Fun Home by Alison Bechdel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>For your wife &#8211; a great graphic novel/autobiography: Fun Home by Alison Bechdel.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell Arben Fox</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/comment-page-1/#comment-183418</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Arben Fox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 12:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/#comment-183418</guid>
		<description>Must agree with Lizardbreath (#7): a fine novel, but one that falls apart once WWII arrives, leaning patently silly and surreal plot gimmicks to finish off the final years of the story. But Chabon&#039;s descriptions of Kavalier and Clay&#039;s early lives and loves, in 1930s-era New York City, are simply brilliant. The chapter where the two men react, through their comic work, to &lt;i&gt;Citizen Kane&lt;/i&gt; is simply stupendous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Must agree with Lizardbreath (#7): a fine novel, but one that falls apart once <span class="caps">WWII</span> arrives, leaning patently silly and surreal plot gimmicks to finish off the final years of the story. But Chabon&#8217;s descriptions of Kavalier and Clay&#8217;s early lives and loves, in 1930s-era New York City, are simply brilliant. The chapter where the two men react, through their comic work, to <i>Citizen Kane</i> is simply stupendous.</p>
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		<title>By: Glorious Godfrey</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/comment-page-1/#comment-183414</link>
		<dc:creator>Glorious Godfrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 12:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/#comment-183414</guid>
		<description>Hah! Time to impersonate a comics connoisseur and &lt;i&gt; sound like a total dick. &lt;/i&gt;

“Blankets” is OK. It pulls off the emotional exhibitionism routine that is a staple of so many indies with unusual verve. I still find it a tad lightweight, though.

Under no circumstances should the purple wool be pulled over the wife´s eyes, i.e. if somebody recommends “Sandman” as a wife-friendly comic tell him or her to fuck off.

Word on the Jimmy Corrigan caveat above. For a desolate comic that delivers its punch with great economy of means, try Hornschemeier´s “Mother, come home”.

Not unlike “Maus”, Keiji Nakazawa´s sprawling “Barefoot Gen”, a reflection of the author´s harrowing experience in Hiroshima, is a comic made indispensable by the gravity of its subject-matter. Actually, it can be easily argued that its storytelling choices are more felicitous than those of Maus. That is, not all the folks who have a hard time getting their heads around the whole mice/cats/dogs/pigs thing that “Maus” has going on are necessarily dense. 

The wife needs to get in on the Danny Clowes love. You get extra condescending phallocrat style points if you use “Ghost World” as gateway drug cause it´s about two teenage girls.

I bought “Black Hole” by Charles Burns after stumbling upon a few glowing reviews. Haven´t got around to reading it yet, though.

Blow the wife´s mind with Jim Woodring´s “Frank”. Get´r done.

At the end of the day, what the wife and all other heathens need to understand is Teh Potential of Sequential Art (TM). This will cast the infinite tolerance towards crap of any comics fan worth his or her salt in a new, tragic, heroic light. Atlas will shrug and Jesus will weep. 

You can try for example “Bardin the superrealist” by Francesc Capdevila aka “Max”. It meets all the requisite conditions, like being ambitious, displaying impeccable, beautiful, masterful storytelling, and –most importantly– disappearing up its own rectum halfway through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hah! Time to impersonate a comics connoisseur and <i> sound like a total dick. </i></p>

	<p>&#8220;Blankets&#8221; is OK. It pulls off the emotional exhibitionism routine that is a staple of so many indies with unusual verve. I still find it a tad lightweight, though.</p>

	<p>Under no circumstances should the purple wool be pulled over the wife&#180;s eyes, i.e. if somebody recommends &#8220;Sandman&#8221; as a wife-friendly comic tell him or her to fuck off.</p>

	<p>Word on the Jimmy Corrigan caveat above. For a desolate comic that delivers its punch with great economy of means, try Hornschemeier&#180;s &#8220;Mother, come home&#8221;.</p>

	<p>Not unlike &#8220;Maus&#8221;, Keiji Nakazawa&#180;s sprawling &#8220;Barefoot Gen&#8221;, a reflection of the author&#180;s harrowing experience in Hiroshima, is a comic made indispensable by the gravity of its subject-matter. Actually, it can be easily argued that its storytelling choices are more felicitous than those of Maus. That is, not all the folks who have a hard time getting their heads around the whole mice/cats/dogs/pigs thing that &#8220;Maus&#8221; has going on are necessarily dense.</p>

	<p>The wife needs to get in on the Danny Clowes love. You get extra condescending phallocrat style points if you use &#8220;Ghost World&#8221; as gateway drug cause it&#180;s about two teenage girls.</p>

	<p>I bought &#8220;Black Hole&#8221; by Charles Burns after stumbling upon a few glowing reviews. Haven&#180;t got around to reading it yet, though.</p>

	<p>Blow the wife&#180;s mind with Jim Woodring&#180;s &#8220;Frank&#8221;. Get&#180;r done.</p>

	<p>At the end of the day, what the wife and all other heathens need to understand is Teh Potential of Sequential Art&#8482;. This will cast the infinite tolerance towards crap of any comics fan worth his or her salt in a new, tragic, heroic light. Atlas will shrug and Jesus will weep.</p>

	<p>You can try for example &#8220;Bardin the superrealist&#8221; by Francesc Capdevila aka &#8220;Max&#8221;. It meets all the requisite conditions, like being ambitious, displaying impeccable, beautiful, masterful storytelling, and &#8211;most importantly&#8211; disappearing up its own rectum halfway through.</p>
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		<title>By: novakant</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/comment-page-1/#comment-183412</link>
		<dc:creator>novakant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 10:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/#comment-183412</guid>
		<description>I read &lt;i&gt;Kavalier and  Clay&lt;/i&gt; this summer and, while there are some structural problems towards the last third of the book, found it to be very entertaining. I also have very fond memories of reading &lt;i&gt;The Mysteries of Pittsburgh&lt;/i&gt; when it came out, but then my judgement might have been slightly clouded by youthful over-identification with the hero (no, I&#039;m not bisexual and my father wasn&#039;t in the mafia and I&#039;ve never been to Pittsburgh). Both books are great movie material, actually I think they might work better as a movie than a novel, so I&#039;m hoping they&#039;ll pull it off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I read <i>Kavalier and  Clay</i> this summer and, while there are some structural problems towards the last third of the book, found it to be very entertaining. I also have very fond memories of reading <i>The Mysteries of Pittsburgh</i> when it came out, but then my judgement might have been slightly clouded by youthful over-identification with the hero (no, I&#8217;m not bisexual and my father wasn&#8217;t in the mafia and I&#8217;ve never been to Pittsburgh). Both books are great movie material, actually I think they might work better as a movie than a novel, so I&#8217;m hoping they&#8217;ll pull it off.</p>
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		<title>By: leonard</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/comment-page-1/#comment-183410</link>
		<dc:creator>leonard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 07:48:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/#comment-183410</guid>
		<description>I echo the &quot;Blankets&quot; recommendation.  It&#039;s fantastic.  Possibly breaks into my top 10 favorite works of literature.  Possibly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I echo the &#8220;Blankets&#8221; recommendation.  It&#8217;s fantastic.  Possibly breaks into my top 10 favorite works of literature.  Possibly.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Simon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/comment-page-1/#comment-183406</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Simon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 06:40:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/#comment-183406</guid>
		<description>I got about halfway through &lt;em&gt;Kavalier&lt;/em&gt; before giving up.  The characters are thinner and stiffer than cardboard, and strike me as wildly anachronistic.  The (straight) relationships are also consistently portrayed as cold and empty--not all that uncommon for gay-themed material, actually, but if you&#039;re going to spend at least half the book on the straight characters and their romances, it makes for a pretty unsatisfying reading experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I got about halfway through <em>Kavalier</em> before giving up.  The characters are thinner and stiffer than cardboard, and strike me as wildly anachronistic.  The (straight) relationships are also consistently portrayed as cold and empty&#8212;not all that uncommon for gay-themed material, actually, but if you&#8217;re going to spend at least half the book on the straight characters and their romances, it makes for a pretty unsatisfying reading experience.</p>
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		<title>By: radek</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/comment-page-1/#comment-183393</link>
		<dc:creator>radek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 03:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/#comment-183393</guid>
		<description>More comics for the wife: the Hernandez brothers! Heartbreak Soup, Love and Rockets, etc. etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>More comics for the wife: the Hernandez brothers! Heartbreak Soup, Love and Rockets, etc. etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Weiner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/comment-page-1/#comment-183391</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Weiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 03:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/#comment-183391</guid>
		<description>Aw shucks. BTW I think the movie drops one of the main characters in a way that has to change the plot in a big way, and doesn&#039;t include perhaps the most famous bit of local geography (the Cloud Factory).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Aw shucks. <span class="caps">BTW I</span> think the movie drops one of the main characters in a way that has to change the plot in a big way, and doesn&#8217;t include perhaps the most famous bit of local geography (the Cloud Factory).</p>
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		<title>By: JRoth</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/comment-page-1/#comment-183388</link>
		<dc:creator>JRoth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 03:01:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/#comment-183388</guid>
		<description>Yes, I did. Thanks, Matt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yes, I did. Thanks, Matt.</p>
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		<title>By: vivian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/comment-page-1/#comment-183387</link>
		<dc:creator>vivian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Jan 2007 02:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/#comment-183387</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve picked it up a few times and then put it back, but now that you all have approved, I&#039;ll give it a try next time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve picked it up a few times and then put it back, but now that you all have approved, I&#8217;ll give it a try next time.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Weiner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/comment-page-1/#comment-183374</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Weiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jan 2007 23:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/#comment-183374</guid>
		<description>If you&#039;re worried about lack of plot you might want to go with &lt;i&gt;Wonder Boys&lt;/i&gt; before &lt;i&gt;Mysteries&lt;/i&gt;, which is pretty meandering in its first-novelliness (IIRC). &lt;i&gt;Wonder Boys&lt;/i&gt;&#039; plot kept me turning the pages. It reminded me of &lt;i&gt;Lucky Jim&lt;/i&gt; as written by the later K. Amis (not as great as &lt;i&gt;Lucky Jim&lt;/i&gt;, of course).

This thread reminds me that I&#039;m thinking of writing a romantic comedy screenplay with this plot:
A young actress used to a glitzy life insults the unglamorous city where she&#039;s filming a movie.
The equally young accidental mayor says that the problem is &quot;she needs to get out with us regular folks.&quot;
So to repair the PR damage the actress decides to let the mayor show her around town. 
etc.

But I need a better title than &lt;i&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://usmagazine.com/node/2706&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mysteries of Shitsburgh&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/i&gt;.

(I hope at least jroth enjoyed that. Thanks for lending the space.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If you&#8217;re worried about lack of plot you might want to go with <i>Wonder Boys</i> before <i>Mysteries</i>, which is pretty meandering in its first-novelliness (IIRC). <i>Wonder Boys</i>&#8217; plot kept me turning the pages. It reminded me of <i>Lucky Jim</i> as written by the later K. Amis (not as great as <i>Lucky Jim</i>, of course).</p>

	<p>This thread reminds me that I&#8217;m thinking of writing a romantic comedy screenplay with this plot:<br />
A young actress used to a glitzy life insults the unglamorous city where she&#8217;s filming a movie.<br />
The equally young accidental mayor says that the problem is &#8220;she needs to get out with us regular folks.&#8221;<br />
So to repair the PR damage the actress decides to let the mayor show her around town.<br />
etc.</p>

	<p>But I need a better title than <i><a href="http://usmagazine.com/node/2706" rel="nofollow">Mysteries of Shitsburgh</a></i>.</p>

	<p>(I hope at least jroth enjoyed that. Thanks for lending the space.)</p>
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		<title>By: matt w</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/comment-page-1/#comment-183373</link>
		<dc:creator>matt w</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jan 2007 22:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/#comment-183373</guid>
		<description>Another comic that might convert the Mrs. is Craig Thompson&#039;s Blankets--a simple, well-crafted coming-of-age tale about first love. It is  devoid of musclemen in tights and takes place in Wisconsin. My wife--who I think finds my predilection for comics a bit strange and juvenile--thoroughly enjoyed it. 

There&#039;s also Chris Ware&#039;s Jimmy Corrigan, which is brilliant, but a bit on the dense side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Another comic that might convert the Mrs. is Craig Thompson&#8217;s Blankets&#8212;a simple, well-crafted coming-of-age tale about first love. It is  devoid of musclemen in tights and takes place in Wisconsin. My wife&#8212;who I think finds my predilection for comics a bit strange and juvenile&#8212;thoroughly enjoyed it.</p>

	<p>There&#8217;s also Chris Ware&#8217;s Jimmy Corrigan, which is brilliant, but a bit on the dense side.</p>
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		<title>By: LizardBreath</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/comment-page-1/#comment-183372</link>
		<dc:creator>LizardBreath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jan 2007 22:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/01/05/kavalier-and-clay/#comment-183372</guid>
		<description>I liked it, but thought it fell apart structurally after the temporal break-point (to be as clear as possible without spoilers).  Everything after that felt to me like &quot;And then they all lived happily, albeit improbably, ever after.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I liked it, but thought it fell apart structurally after the temporal break-point (to be as clear as possible without spoilers).  Everything after that felt to me like &#8220;And then they all lived happily, albeit improbably, ever after.)</p>
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