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	<title>Comments on: Always Historicize</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Steven Crane</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/comment-page-1/#comment-187345</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Crane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 20:51:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/#comment-187345</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Aren’t I right that Scott doesn’t even have a batchelor’s degree? Makes the sarcastic comments seem especially pathetic.&lt;/i&gt;

i don&#039;t have a bachelor&#039;s degree yet, either.  should i regard this place as over my head?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Aren&#8217;t I right that Scott doesn&#8217;t even have a batchelor&#8217;s degree? Makes the sarcastic comments seem especially pathetic.</i></p>

	<p>i don&#8217;t have a bachelor&#8217;s degree yet, either.  should i regard this place as over my head?</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Goldberg</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/comment-page-1/#comment-187312</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Goldberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Feb 2007 16:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/#comment-187312</guid>
		<description>In a fit of morbid curiosity I just read through the linked pieces about CT and others.

1) I didn&#039;t see anything especially Jewish in there.
2) Reading this stuff was a waste of time.  Why did you even mention it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In a fit of morbid curiosity I just read through the linked pieces about CT and others.</p>

	<p>1) I didn&#8217;t see anything especially Jewish in there.<br />
2) Reading this stuff was a waste of time.  Why did you even mention it?</p>
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		<title>By: Ray Davis</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/comment-page-1/#comment-187225</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:34:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/#comment-187225</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pseudopodium.org/barbellionblog/index.php?p=456&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Barbellion&lt;/a&gt;&#039;s pretty good today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a href="http://www.pseudopodium.org/barbellionblog/index.php?p=456" rel="nofollow">Barbellion</a>&#8217;s pretty good today.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Eric Kaufman</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/comment-page-1/#comment-187186</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Eric Kaufman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 03:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/#comment-187186</guid>
		<description>At least they credited Scott&#039;s orthographic acumen without resorting to an ostentatious display of their own substantial erudition.  I know he&#039;s an acknowledged &lt;i&gt;groyser tzuleyger&lt;/i&gt; and all, but it bears repeating: that Weiss fellow, he&#039;s classy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>At least they credited Scott&#8217;s orthographic acumen without resorting to an ostentatious display of their own substantial erudition.  I know he&#8217;s an acknowledged <i>groyser tzuleyger</i> and all, but it bears repeating: that Weiss fellow, he&#8217;s classy.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/comment-page-1/#comment-187173</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Feb 2007 00:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/#comment-187173</guid>
		<description>OK, I laughed out loud at that. And I&#039;m sick, so that meant a lot of coughing. And the pseudonym was perfect too. I&#039;m going to go read The Baron in the Trees, now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>OK, I laughed out loud at that. And I&#8217;m sick, so that meant a lot of coughing. And the pseudonym was perfect too. I&#8217;m going to go read The Baron in the Trees, now.</p>
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		<title>By: I Calvino</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/comment-page-1/#comment-187162</link>
		<dc:creator>I Calvino</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 21:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/#comment-187162</guid>
		<description>&quot;The melting pot works and don’t let anybody tell you otherwise.&quot;

Leaving you to carry on the &lt;i&gt;real&lt;/i&gt; tradition of writing highly self-conscious in mode, with an unashamed vibration of bravura and display. Nervous, strewn with knotty or flashy phrases, impatient with transitions and other concessions to dullness, willfully calling attention to itself again and again and again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;The melting pot works and don&#8217;t let anybody tell you otherwise.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Leaving you to carry on the <i>real</i> tradition of writing highly self-conscious in mode, with an unashamed vibration of bravura and display. Nervous, strewn with knotty or flashy phrases, impatient with transitions and other concessions to dullness, willfully calling attention to itself again and again and again.</p>
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		<title>By: alex</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/comment-page-1/#comment-187161</link>
		<dc:creator>alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 21:44:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/#comment-187161</guid>
		<description>Christ Bertram wrote,

&lt;em&gt;&quot;Hmm well I don’t think Scott was meaning to generalize about people who happen to be young, Jewish, and writers. Rather he was making a comment about this particular bunch of people&quot;&lt;/em&gt;

Scott Mclemee wrote, 

&lt;em&gt;My generalization about the cultural condition of young Jewish writers was so willfully over-the-top that I figured the trope to be obvious, and it certainly will be so to any smart yJw’s who happen to read it.&lt;/em&gt;

Apparently, Chris, not only did Scott mean to generalize, but he meant to do so in a willfully over the top manner. To get it, you had to be smart and Jewish. Those of us who did not get it - which apparently includes you as well as me - can now reflect whether we are insufficiency Jewish or insufficiently smart (I hope its the former as far as I&#039;m concerned).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Christ Bertram wrote,</p>

	<p><em>&#8220;Hmm well I don&#8217;t think Scott was meaning to generalize about people who happen to be young, Jewish, and writers. Rather he was making a comment about this particular bunch of people&#8221;</em></p>

	<p>Scott Mclemee wrote,</p>

	<p><em>My generalization about the cultural condition of young Jewish writers was so willfully over-the-top that I figured the trope to be obvious, and it certainly will be so to any smart yJw&#8217;s who happen to read it.</em></p>

	<p>Apparently, Chris, not only did Scott mean to generalize, but he meant to do so in a willfully over the top manner. To get it, you had to be smart and Jewish. Those of us who did not get it &#8211; which apparently includes you as well as me &#8211; can now reflect whether we are insufficiency Jewish or insufficiently smart (I hope its the former as far as I&#8217;m concerned).</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/comment-page-1/#comment-187143</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 18:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/#comment-187143</guid>
		<description>I did just read the reply. Wow, do these people really think they&#039;re good writers? I mean, it&#039;s so forced. Running with the bathroom metaphors, it feels as though their prose was produced in a stall, as they strained every muscle in their abdomens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I did just read the reply. Wow, do these people really think they&#8217;re good writers? I mean, it&#8217;s so forced. Running with the bathroom metaphors, it feels as though their prose was produced in a stall, as they strained every muscle in their abdomens.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott McLemee</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/comment-page-1/#comment-187128</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott McLemee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 16:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/#comment-187128</guid>
		<description>My generalization about the cultural condition of young Jewish writers was so willfully over-the-top that I figured the trope to be obvious, and it certainly will be so to any smart yJw&#039;s who happen to read it.

Anyway, turns out Weiss took high school Latin, so I take it all back. He should be careful about figural language however. Referring to my display of &quot;symposium bathroom break erudition&quot; might be taken to imply that Movable Snipe is a urinal cake of wannabe hipsterism. And that would not be good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My generalization about the cultural condition of young Jewish writers was so willfully over-the-top that I figured the trope to be obvious, and it certainly will be so to any smart yJw&#8217;s who happen to read it.</p>

	<p>Anyway, turns out Weiss took high school Latin, so I take it all back. He should be careful about figural language however. Referring to my display of &#8220;symposium bathroom break erudition&#8221; might be taken to imply that Movable Snipe is a urinal cake of wannabe hipsterism. And that would not be good.</p>
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		<title>By: Kieran Healy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/comment-page-1/#comment-187126</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran Healy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 16:25:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/#comment-187126</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;sarcastic comments about the “professor” engaging in “symposium bathroom break pedantry,” Scott’s “lectern,” ” how “McLemee must have tenure already,” &amp;c &amp;c &amp;c.&lt;/i&gt;

Ha! That&#039;s great. Well, they said they were going to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jewcy.com/daily_shvitz/movable_snipe_2_electric_boogaloo&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;carpet bomb us&lt;/a&gt;, and I guess that&#039;s been about the level of competence and accuracy they&#039;ve managed so far. Scott takes a single pop at them with the ack-ack gun and the result is that Weiss manages to crash his little plane all by himself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>sarcastic comments about the &#8220;professor&#8221; engaging in &#8220;symposium bathroom break pedantry,&#8221; Scott&#8217;s &#8220;lectern,&#8221; &#8221; how &#8220;McLemee must have tenure already,&#8221; &#038;c &#038;c &#038;c.</i></p>

	<p>Ha! That&#8217;s great. Well, they said they were going to <a href="http://www.jewcy.com/daily_shvitz/movable_snipe_2_electric_boogaloo" rel="nofollow">carpet bomb us</a>, and I guess that&#8217;s been about the level of competence and accuracy they&#8217;ve managed so far. Scott takes a single pop at them with the ack-ack gun and the result is that Weiss manages to crash his little plane all by himself.</p>
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		<title>By: harry b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/comment-page-1/#comment-187120</link>
		<dc:creator>harry b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 15:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/#comment-187120</guid>
		<description>Aren&#039;t I right that Scott doesn&#039;t even have a batchelor&#039;s degree? Makes the sarcastic comments seem especially pathetic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Aren&#8217;t I right that Scott doesn&#8217;t even have a batchelor&#8217;s degree? Makes the sarcastic comments seem especially pathetic.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/comment-page-1/#comment-187117</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 14:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/#comment-187117</guid>
		<description>What Chris B. says - the problem is arguably worse for Irish writers.

It should be said that the rest of the site has some interesting stuff on it - but this purported attempt at blog criticism is bloody awful. One of the two people involved, Michael Weiss, has what he surely imagines to be a &quot;riposte&quot;:http://www.snarksmith.com/2007/02/the_kugel_falls_far_from_the_z.html posted today, which rather undermines itself by making sarcastic comments about the &quot;professor&quot; engaging in &quot;symposium bathroom break pedantry,&quot; Scott&#039;s &quot;lectern,&quot; &quot; how &quot;McLemee must have tenure already,&quot; &amp;c &amp;c &amp;c. It would have taken about 10 seconds Googling to discover that Scott has never held an academic position, and is rather an independent writer, critic, and recipient of the National Book Critics Circle&#039;s Nona Balakian prize. This is surely the  kind of intellectual laziness that annoyed Scott so much in the first place. I&#039;ve seen Scott in reviewing mode - he takes a lot of time to write a several hundred word review b/c he takes care to do a lot of real research reading through the secondary literature on the subject of the review. He simply wouldn&#039;t treat a topic that he was writing about with the sloppy incuriousness that these folks have displayed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>What Chris B. says &#8211; the problem is arguably worse for Irish writers.</p>

	<p>It should be said that the rest of the site has some interesting stuff on it &#8211; but this purported attempt at blog criticism is bloody awful. One of the two people involved, Michael Weiss, has what he surely imagines to be a <a href="http://www.snarksmith.com/2007/02/the_kugel_falls_far_from_the_z.html" title="">riposte</a> posted today, which rather undermines itself by making sarcastic comments about the &#8220;professor&#8221; engaging in &#8220;symposium bathroom break pedantry,&#8221; Scott&#8217;s &#8220;lectern,&#8221; &#8221; how &#8220;McLemee must have tenure already,&#8221; &#038;c &#038;c &#038;c. It would have taken about 10 seconds Googling to discover that Scott has never held an academic position, and is rather an independent writer, critic, and recipient of the National Book Critics Circle&#8217;s Nona Balakian prize. This is surely the  kind of intellectual laziness that annoyed Scott so much in the first place. I&#8217;ve seen Scott in reviewing mode &#8211; he takes a lot of time to write a several hundred word review b/c he takes care to do a lot of real research reading through the secondary literature on the subject of the review. He simply wouldn&#8217;t treat a topic that he was writing about with the sloppy incuriousness that these folks have displayed.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Bertram</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/comment-page-1/#comment-187116</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Bertram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 14:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/#comment-187116</guid>
		<description>Hmm well I don&#039;t think Scott was meaning to generalize about people who happen to be young, Jewish, and writers. Rather he was making a comment about _this_ particular bunch of people who are happy to see their site described as &quot;the accoutrement of choice for a new breed of Jewish hipsters&quot; etc etc.

There&#039;s some kind of phenomenon here, which is hard to describe, but which goes something like this:

In iteration 1 you have someone who is great at what they do and to and about whom identity issues are also very important. People talk about them as a great Jewish/Black/lesbian/Irish writer/film-maker/cook, whatever. Among other things, they are great at writing, making films or cooking.

In iteration 2 you get people writing blurbs for dust-jackets or other advertising copy who write apropos some moderately talented person from the same group that they are &quot;the next Philip Roth&quot; or &quot;the next Spike Lee&quot; or whatever.

In iteration 3 (or n) you get real mediocrities who try to promote _themselves_ as creative-person-with-identity-X. The kindest thing you can then say is &quot;nice try&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hmm well I don&#8217;t think Scott was meaning to generalize about people who happen to be young, Jewish, and writers. Rather he was making a comment about <em>this</em> particular bunch of people who are happy to see their site described as &#8220;the accoutrement of choice for a new breed of Jewish hipsters&#8221; etc etc.</p>

	<p>There&#8217;s some kind of phenomenon here, which is hard to describe, but which goes something like this:</p>

	<p>In iteration 1 you have someone who is great at what they do and to and about whom identity issues are also very important. People talk about them as a great Jewish/Black/lesbian/Irish writer/film-maker/cook, whatever. Among other things, they are great at writing, making films or cooking.</p>

	<p>In iteration 2 you get people writing blurbs for dust-jackets or other advertising copy who write apropos some moderately talented person from the same group that they are &#8220;the next Philip Roth&#8221; or &#8220;the next Spike Lee&#8221; or whatever.</p>

	<p>In iteration 3 (or n) you get real mediocrities who try to promote <em>themselves</em> as creative-person-with-identity-X. The kindest thing you can then say is &#8220;nice try&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/comment-page-1/#comment-187113</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 13:11:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/#comment-187113</guid>
		<description>I just spent a few moment at the website in question, and the writing is awful. I mean, &lt;i&gt;awful&lt;/i&gt;. This may be one of the worst paragraphs ever written in our language:

&lt;blockquote&gt;I mean, I had to read it a couple times because there’s something weirdly incoherent about the man’s prose style, but once I got with it—the ultimate endorsement of pleonasm—I laughed. He’s a cynic. So the Saudis make nice with us, so what? It’s only a gesture. Or: they’re just getting in bed with the winning side. Or: they’re getting in bed with the lesser evil. We’re doing good! We suck. You get the feeling he thinks we suck. And he’s right. Especially now that Bush wants to bleed even more money from the arts, ostensibly to fund his New War. Because when I need money, the first place I turn is the arts. Jeeze. Does anyone read anymore? I’m serious.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It has the distinct feel of high school kids playing educated social critics, wielding a thesaurus. Still, I don&#039;t think one would have to look far to find much better young Jewish writers. So I&#039;m pretty sure the generalization at the end of this post isn&#039;t warranted. In fact, the generalization seems oddly... well, I&#039;ll put it this way: it makes me a bit uncomfortable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I just spent a few moment at the website in question, and the writing is awful. I mean, <i>awful</i>. This may be one of the worst paragraphs ever written in our language:</p>

	<p><blockquote>I mean, I had to read it a couple times because there&#8217;s something weirdly incoherent about the man&#8217;s prose style, but once I got with it&#8212;the ultimate endorsement of pleonasm&#8212;I laughed. He&#8217;s a cynic. So the Saudis make nice with us, so what? It&#8217;s only a gesture. Or: they&#8217;re just getting in bed with the winning side. Or: they&#8217;re getting in bed with the lesser evil. We&#8217;re doing good! We suck. You get the feeling he thinks we suck. And he&#8217;s right. Especially now that Bush wants to bleed even more money from the arts, ostensibly to fund his New War. Because when I need money, the first place I turn is the arts. Jeeze. Does anyone read anymore? I&#8217;m serious.</blockquote></p>

	<p>It has the distinct feel of high school kids playing educated social critics, wielding a thesaurus. Still, I don&#8217;t think one would have to look far to find much better young Jewish writers. So I&#8217;m pretty sure the generalization at the end of this post isn&#8217;t warranted. In fact, the generalization seems oddly&#8230; well, I&#8217;ll put it this way: it makes me a bit uncomfortable.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/comment-page-1/#comment-187108</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Feb 2007 09:15:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/15/always-historicize/#comment-187108</guid>
		<description>Well, it&#039;s understandable: they may have the same names but they are different people and, more importantly, people with a much different social status (on average). Alienated rebels vs. a part of the establishment; what did you expect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well, it&#8217;s understandable: they may have the same names but they are different people and, more importantly, people with a much different social status (on average). Alienated rebels vs. a part of the establishment; what did you expect.</p>
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