<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: You Can be The Ethicist</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 04:20:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Anastasia</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/comment-page-3/#comment-187962</link>
		<dc:creator>Anastasia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 18:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/#comment-187962</guid>
		<description>Maybe I&#039;m just cynical, but I have a really hard time believing that the other students in the department are actually the concern here.  am i the only one who has seen a parade of total jerks admitted to their department?  when there was no reason the faculty couldn&#039;t have figured out they were total jerks from the way they acted at their interviews?  or based on the comments of current students about these folks?  I&#039;m not throwing my department under the bus here.  I don&#039;t think they&#039;re that unusual in their lack of attention to grad student dynamics. 

my other point is that I&#039;ve also had the experience of meeting a prospective student in an interview situation, deciding s/he is a total jackass, reporting the bad behavior--including in one case, an unpleasant comment about a specific faculty person--only to see them admitted.  

In a couple of cases, I figured out after they enrolled that they really weren&#039;t so bad.  Nerves can make some people overcompensate, which comes off &quot;arrogant asshole&quot;.  But, a few rejections from other departments and maybe a semester or two of grad school later and they&#039;ve settled down, learned to let go of the ego trip and turned into really decent colleagues.  No harm, no foul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Maybe I&#8217;m just cynical, but I have a really hard time believing that the other students in the department are actually the concern here.  am i the only one who has seen a parade of total jerks admitted to their department?  when there was no reason the faculty couldn&#8217;t have figured out they were total jerks from the way they acted at their interviews?  or based on the comments of current students about these folks?  I&#8217;m not throwing my department under the bus here.  I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;re that unusual in their lack of attention to grad student dynamics.</p>

	<p>my other point is that I&#8217;ve also had the experience of meeting a prospective student in an interview situation, deciding s/he is a total jackass, reporting the bad behavior&#8212;including in one case, an unpleasant comment about a specific faculty person&#8212;only to see them admitted.</p>

	<p>In a couple of cases, I figured out after they enrolled that they really weren&#8217;t so bad.  Nerves can make some people overcompensate, which comes off &#8220;arrogant asshole&#8221;.  But, a few rejections from other departments and maybe a semester or two of grad school later and they&#8217;ve settled down, learned to let go of the ego trip and turned into really decent colleagues.  No harm, no foul.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SG</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/comment-page-3/#comment-187843</link>
		<dc:creator>SG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 01:59:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/#comment-187843</guid>
		<description>Abb1, is that point the point where you have to work with someone? Or is it some level of dickheadness that you are able to identify at interview? If so, doesn&#039;t that make it unfair to use their online comments, since they weren&#039;t warned their dickheadness was being monitored? After all, when warned that being a dickhead may endanger their pay, people often behave better.

I need to learn to parse &quot;dickhead&quot;. Useful word, that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Abb1, is that point the point where you have to work with someone? Or is it some level of dickheadness that you are able to identify at interview? If so, doesn&#8217;t that make it unfair to use their online comments, since they weren&#8217;t warned their dickheadness was being monitored? After all, when warned that being a dickhead may endanger their pay, people often behave better.</p>

	<p>I need to learn to parse &#8220;dickhead&#8221;. Useful word, that.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: aleslie06</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/comment-page-3/#comment-187777</link>
		<dc:creator>aleslie06</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 16:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/#comment-187777</guid>
		<description>Every department website I have ever viewed tells their prospective students/potential applicants what the criteria are for the application evaluation. These include grades, GRE scores, statements of purpose, and writing samples. If an admissions committee is using information other than the criteria given to the applicant, then that committe is being dishonest and unfair to the applicant.

If the admissions committee decides to start browsing various forums and blogs to look for their applicants&#039; &quot;true&quot; thoughts and desires for various programs and begins to use them in evaluating an application, then they better start warning their applicants that they are doing so.

However, if a member on the admissions committee &quot;happens&quot; to stumble upon this information (even though I don&#039;t know how that would exactly be possible), of course it becomes an ethical dilemma. But ethical dilemmas in regards to &quot;chancing&quot; upon information are quite different from the blantantly unethcial practice of seeking out personal feelings/writings of applicants without their knowledge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Every department website I have ever viewed tells their prospective students/potential applicants what the criteria are for the application evaluation. These include grades, <span class="caps">GRE</span> scores, statements of purpose, and writing samples. If an admissions committee is using information other than the criteria given to the applicant, then that committe is being dishonest and unfair to the applicant.</p>

	<p>If the admissions committee decides to start browsing various forums and blogs to look for their applicants&#8217; &#8220;true&#8221; thoughts and desires for various programs and begins to use them in evaluating an application, then they better start warning their applicants that they are doing so.</p>

	<p>However, if a member on the admissions committee &#8220;happens&#8221; to stumble upon this information (even though I don&#8217;t know how that would exactly be possible), of course it becomes an ethical dilemma. But ethical dilemmas in regards to &#8220;chancing&#8221; upon information are quite different from the blantantly unethcial practice of seeking out personal feelings/writings of applicants without their knowledge.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/comment-page-3/#comment-187760</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 15:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/#comment-187760</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The simple fact remains: it`s okay to be a dickhead, provided you don`t do it at work.&lt;/i&gt;

Fair enough. Up to a point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>The simple fact remains: it`s okay to be a dickhead, provided you don`t do it at work.</i></p>

	<p>Fair enough. Up to a point.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SG</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/comment-page-3/#comment-187733</link>
		<dc:creator>SG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 11:40:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/#comment-187733</guid>
		<description>No Abb1, you`re clutching at straws. The interview is certainly intended to measure your personality but it is clearly in a work setting - not in an anonymous online setting, a bar, etc. So the person`s behaviour then is clearly relevant to their behaviour at work. It is not the case, for example, that a dickhead at home is a dickhead in interviews (I think i interview quite well, thank you very much). And being a dickhead at home is irrelevant to the job. 

And to a certain extent we do take into account the high pressure of a job interview in, for example, whether someone is sweating a little, stutters a bit, whatever. 

The simple fact remains: it`s okay to be a dickhead, provided you don`t do it at work. Stick to this rule, and you can get a job anywhere you are qualified to work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>No Abb1, you`re clutching at straws. The interview is certainly intended to measure your personality but it is clearly in a work setting &#8211; not in an anonymous online setting, a bar, etc. So the person`s behaviour then is clearly relevant to their behaviour at work. It is not the case, for example, that a dickhead at home is a dickhead in interviews (I think i interview quite well, thank you very much). And being a dickhead at home is irrelevant to the job.</p>

	<p>And to a certain extent we do take into account the high pressure of a job interview in, for example, whether someone is sweating a little, stutters a bit, whatever.</p>

	<p>The simple fact remains: it`s okay to be a dickhead, provided you don`t do it at work. Stick to this rule, and you can get a job anywhere you are qualified to work.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/comment-page-3/#comment-187727</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 10:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/#comment-187727</guid>
		<description>Seriously, I mean, really, think about it. You go to an interview, you try to make a good impression, you try to smile, you try to look them straight in the eyes and so on. Suppose you failed to make a good impression. Does the natural justice require the committee to say at the end of the interview: you know, you look like an asshole, but please clear the matter up, explain why you&#039;ve been swearing and pounding on the desk here - is this because you really are an asshole or you&#039;re, in fact, a very nice fella suffering a breakdown under tremendous pressure?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Seriously, I mean, really, think about it. You go to an interview, you try to make a good impression, you try to smile, you try to look them straight in the eyes and so on. Suppose you failed to make a good impression. Does the natural justice require the committee to say at the end of the interview: you know, you look like an asshole, but please clear the matter up, explain why you&#8217;ve been swearing and pounding on the desk here &#8211; is this because you really are an asshole or you&#8217;re, in fact, a very nice fella suffering a breakdown under tremendous pressure?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/comment-page-3/#comment-187713</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 08:41:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/#comment-187713</guid>
		<description>As far as the justice aspect of it, you certainly should give the person the chance to clear the matter up &lt;b&gt;if the person is already aboard&lt;/b&gt;, member of your team. I feel that admission is different in this respect. When you apply somewhere and get rejected you never get an explanation. The committee has decided that someone else was a better candidate, they promise that they didn&#039;t hold your age, race and religion against you, and that&#039;s all there is to it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As far as the justice aspect of it, you certainly should give the person the chance to clear the matter up <b>if the person is already aboard</b>, member of your team. I feel that admission is different in this respect. When you apply somewhere and get rejected you never get an explanation. The committee has decided that someone else was a better candidate, they promise that they didn&#8217;t hold your age, race and religion against you, and that&#8217;s all there is to it.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/comment-page-3/#comment-187711</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 08:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/#comment-187711</guid>
		<description>Derrida, all this is so hypothetical. Without seeing real comments we may be imagining some drastically different scenarios. 

I&#039;m assuming here (for the sake of argument, since this is a hypothetical scenario) that the committee people are smart enough to differentiate between &quot;malicious things&quot; and &quot;blowing off steam&quot;. 

Of course the committee people could be a bunch of idiots and/or corrupt individuals, but then we have a different and much bigger problem there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Derrida, all this is so hypothetical. Without seeing real comments we may be imagining some drastically different scenarios.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m assuming here (for the sake of argument, since this is a hypothetical scenario) that the committee people are smart enough to differentiate between &#8220;malicious things&#8221; and &#8220;blowing off steam&#8221;.</p>

	<p>Of course the committee people could be a bunch of idiots and/or corrupt individuals, but then we have a different and much bigger problem there.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ben</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/comment-page-3/#comment-187702</link>
		<dc:creator>ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 03:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/#comment-187702</guid>
		<description>First response, without having read the masses of comments: the wrongness of the act is a function of the admissions committee&#039;s official policy on the use of information outside of the official application. Does the committee consider &quot;word of mouth&quot; about the student--perhaps in the form of early professional activity, participation in conferences, and so forth? Does the impression a candidate makes over the course of informal visits prior to a decision have an impact? If a candidate applies as a transfer after having been affiliated with a program as a visiting student, is his performance over the visit considered when evaluating his appeal as a future colleague? Are personal calls in favor of the applicant to (presumably, senior) members of a department considered? If factors that are not part of a candidate&#039;s official application are relevant--particularly if they can play a negative  role (such as a disastrous visit might)--then there seems no strong block to the appropriateness of considering the online behavior, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>First response, without having read the masses of comments: the wrongness of the act is a function of the admissions committee&#8217;s official policy on the use of information outside of the official application. Does the committee consider &#8220;word of mouth&#8221; about the student&#8212;perhaps in the form of early professional activity, participation in conferences, and so forth? Does the impression a candidate makes over the course of informal visits prior to a decision have an impact? If a candidate applies as a transfer after having been affiliated with a program as a visiting student, is his performance over the visit considered when evaluating his appeal as a future colleague? Are personal calls in favor of the applicant to (presumably, senior) members of a department considered? If factors that are not part of a candidate&#8217;s official application are relevant&#8212;particularly if they can play a negative  role (such as a disastrous visit might)&#8212;then there seems no strong block to the appropriateness of considering the online behavior, too.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: enter the lattice &#171; a historian&#8217;s craft</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/comment-page-3/#comment-187694</link>
		<dc:creator>enter the lattice &#171; a historian&#8217;s craft</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 02:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/#comment-187694</guid>
		<description>[...] ever made&#8221; &#8212; how can you not love a blog with a headline like that? but it was really this post and its magnificently robust discussion that caught my [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] ever made&#8221; &#8212; how can you not love a blog with a headline like that? but it was really this post and its magnificently robust discussion that caught my [...]</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: derrida derider</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/comment-page-3/#comment-187691</link>
		<dc:creator>derrida derider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 00:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/#comment-187691</guid>
		<description>abb1, this is not a matter of law, or of university policy.  It&#039;s a matter of &lt;b&gt;natural justice&lt;/b&gt;.  Can you take idle gossip into account?  Sure, &lt;i&gt;if you give the person the chance to clear the matter up&lt;/i&gt;.

And I also agree with those who argue that making nasty comments, even untrue ones, on an anonymous web forum and being a dishonest person are two different things.  Anonymous nasty comments can be blowing off steam - hell, they can even be a response to a justified grievance.  Dishonesty&#039;s a different thing, and if demonstrated is indeed a deal-breaker.

And you should also remember the proverb that eavesdroppers never hear well of themselves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>abb1, this is not a matter of law, or of university policy.  It&#8217;s a matter of <b>natural justice</b>.  Can you take idle gossip into account?  Sure, <i>if you give the person the chance to clear the matter up</i>.</p>

	<p>And I also agree with those who argue that making nasty comments, even untrue ones, on an anonymous web forum and being a dishonest person are two different things.  Anonymous nasty comments can be blowing off steam &#8211; hell, they can even be a response to a justified grievance.  Dishonesty&#8217;s a different thing, and if demonstrated is indeed a deal-breaker.</p>

	<p>And you should also remember the proverb that eavesdroppers never hear well of themselves.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/comment-page-3/#comment-187671</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/#comment-187671</guid>
		<description>Yeah, yeah, Ned. Sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yeah, yeah, Ned. Sure.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ned Ulbricht</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/comment-page-3/#comment-187660</link>
		<dc:creator>Ned Ulbricht</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 18:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/#comment-187660</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;Fair enough?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No.

As just one of many possible attacks, how &#039;bout DNS cache poisoning to intercept mail sent the registration address?

Among the billion or so (estimated) people on the &#039;net these days, there are some really unpleasant individuals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote><i>Fair enough?</i></blockquote></p>

	<p>No.</p>

	<p>As just one of many possible attacks, how &#8216;bout <span class="caps">DNS</span> cache poisoning to intercept mail sent the registration address?</p>

	<p>Among the billion or so (estimated) people on the &#8216;net these days, there are some really unpleasant individuals.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/comment-page-3/#comment-187654</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:35:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/#comment-187654</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not, but most people don&#039;t get a new email every time they register for an online chat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s not, but most people don&#8217;t get a new email every time they register for an online chat.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/comment-page-3/#comment-187653</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/02/18/you-can-be-the-ethicist/#comment-187653</guid>
		<description>A fake email that has not been used in any other context is not difficult to make.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A fake email that has not been used in any other context is not difficult to make.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
