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	<title>Comments on: Irish Solutions</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Valuethinker</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-189293</link>
		<dc:creator>Valuethinker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/#comment-189293</guid>
		<description>http://www.iwea.com/windenergy/index.html

map of Irish wind farms here.

By contrast, Germany has nearly 20,000 MW of installed capacity, and Spain 12,000 MW.  Even France is planning 3,000 MW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a href="http://www.iwea.com/windenergy/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.iwea.com/windenergy/index.html</a></p>

	<p>map of Irish wind farms here.</p>

	<p>By contrast, Germany has nearly 20,000 MW of installed capacity, and Spain 12,000 MW.  Even France is planning 3,000 MW.</p>
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		<title>By: Valuethinker</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-189292</link>
		<dc:creator>Valuethinker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/#comment-189292</guid>
		<description>I think Ireland could do a lot more with wind.

Ireland, like the west coast of the United Kingdom, has some of the best onshore and offshore wind resources in the world.

Linking to the French grid makes sense in that case, in the same way the Danes link to the German and Scandinavian grids.

Wind is intermittent. You can only have a large percentage of your power from wind (typically over 15-20%) *if* you have alternative power sources and you can trade power: sell them power when it is windy, and buy it back when it is not windy.

Note offshore wind blows a lot more frequently than onshore-- even a 10km distance offshore the wind is something like twice as frequent at the minimum speed necessary.

An expert investor in the field who owns power facilities in Ireland told me that a wind farm in Ireland is competitive *without subsidy* with a new gas fired power station.  Since we don&#039;t tax CO2 output, that means it is actually cheaper than a fossil fuel station.

Taking a leaf from the Danish book, combined heat and power units, providing neighbourhood and office park heating, can work well with a large proportion of wind in the total grid supply.

A gas fired station is limited to about 65% thermal efficiency (Cornot&#039;s law again).  A combined heat and power station can get 80-90% efficiency, if there is a strong, regular demand for heat.

Ireland should give up burning peat.  It is the messiest fuel (other than lignite brown coal) in the world from a CO2 point of view, and it&#039;s extraction causes huge environmental problems for local flora and fauna.

It&#039;s a crime to burn peat when you have so much wind available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think Ireland could do a lot more with wind.</p>

	<p>Ireland, like the west coast of the United Kingdom, has some of the best onshore and offshore wind resources in the world.</p>

	<p>Linking to the French grid makes sense in that case, in the same way the Danes link to the German and Scandinavian grids.</p>

	<p>Wind is intermittent. You can only have a large percentage of your power from wind (typically over 15-20%) <strong>if</strong> you have alternative power sources and you can trade power: sell them power when it is windy, and buy it back when it is not windy.</p>

	<p>Note offshore wind blows a lot more frequently than onshore&#8212;even a 10km distance offshore the wind is something like twice as frequent at the minimum speed necessary.</p>

	<p>An expert investor in the field who owns power facilities in Ireland told me that a wind farm in Ireland is competitive <strong>without subsidy</strong> with a new gas fired power station.  Since we don&#8217;t tax <span class="caps">CO2</span> output, that means it is actually cheaper than a fossil fuel station.</p>

	<p>Taking a leaf from the Danish book, combined heat and power units, providing neighbourhood and office park heating, can work well with a large proportion of wind in the total grid supply.</p>

	<p>A gas fired station is limited to about 65% thermal efficiency (Cornot&#8217;s law again).  A combined heat and power station can get 80-90% efficiency, if there is a strong, regular demand for heat.</p>

	<p>Ireland should give up burning peat.  It is the messiest fuel (other than lignite brown coal) in the world from a <span class="caps">CO2</span> point of view, and it&#8217;s extraction causes huge environmental problems for local flora and fauna.</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s a crime to burn peat when you have so much wind available.</p>
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		<title>By: Valuethinker</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-189291</link>
		<dc:creator>Valuethinker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2007 08:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/#comment-189291</guid>
		<description>re location of British nuclear power plants:

- you have to build them on the Coast, because nuclear power stations, like all heat engines, obey Cornot&#039;s law: they gain increased efficiency if the difference between the input and output temperature is maximised.

Put it another way, the cooler the input water (sea water!) the better.  the most efficient plants in the world are based on the sea.

The French have had to shut down some of their stations during recent heat waves: the rivers ran   dry.

The only reason Britain has power plants in the Midlands and Yorkshire is the coal mines were there (and the big industrial consumers).

- the stations were located largely for grid balancing reasons.  Because you cannot store electricity, where you produce it, relative to where you consume it, is an important question.

In general, it&#039;s best to have your most stable sources of power (nukes run almost all the time) relatively close to population centres: hence Sizewell (Suffolk), Hinkley (Bristol), Dungeness (Kent).

- politics was also a factor.  If you put a plant in an isolated rural community, the jobs it creates creates an automatic constituency for the plant.  It&#039;s also a regional development strategy. 

Those jobs are high paying and high skilled, and they last for forever, because a nuke is a long life asset.

- there&#039;s no doubt the British have played silly bu--ers with the Irish over Sellafield and atomic waste dumping.  But there is a general superiority complex about the Irish that the British hold.

- generally on British Irish policy, remember that Blair is the first Premier in a long time who did not depend on Ulster Unionist support in Parliament.  Major kept his government by it, and Thatcher&#039;s key security adviser and trusted personal friend (until he was assassinated) was Airey Neave, an Ulsterman.  Neave had run MI9 (pilot and aircrew escape networks in WWII in Europe) and had a long history of shadowy dealings with the security services.

It&#039;s no coincidence Blair, who is married to a Catholic, and is on the point of conversion, was the first British Premier able to conclude a deal with the Provisional IRA.

In general Unionists still have a big influence in the senior levels of the civil service and the Army.  &#039;Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right&#039; was a slogan from 1913 and the fight against Irish Home Rule, but the attitude is still there in Westminster</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>re location of British nuclear power plants:</p>
 &#8211; you have to build them on the Coast, because nuclear power stations, like all heat engines, obey Cornot&#8217;s law: they gain increased efficiency if the difference between the input and output temperature is maximised.

	<p>Put it another way, the cooler the input water (sea water!) the better.  the most efficient plants in the world are based on the sea.</p>

	<p>The French have had to shut down some of their stations during recent heat waves: the rivers ran   dry.</p>

	<p>The only reason Britain has power plants in the Midlands and Yorkshire is the coal mines were there (and the big industrial consumers).</p>
 &#8211; the stations were located largely for grid balancing reasons.  Because you cannot store electricity, where you produce it, relative to where you consume it, is an important question.

	<p>In general, it&#8217;s best to have your most stable sources of power (nukes run almost all the time) relatively close to population centres: hence Sizewell (Suffolk), Hinkley (Bristol), Dungeness (Kent).</p>
 &#8211; politics was also a factor.  If you put a plant in an isolated rural community, the jobs it creates creates an automatic constituency for the plant.  It&#8217;s also a regional development strategy.

	<p>Those jobs are high paying and high skilled, and they last for forever, because a nuke is a long life asset.</p>
 &#8211; there&#8217;s no doubt the British have played silly bu&#8212;ers with the Irish over Sellafield and atomic waste dumping.  But there is a general superiority complex about the Irish that the British hold.
 &#8211; generally on British Irish policy, remember that Blair is the first Premier in a long time who did not depend on Ulster Unionist support in Parliament.  Major kept his government by it, and Thatcher&#8217;s key security adviser and trusted personal friend (until he was assassinated) was Airey Neave, an Ulsterman.  Neave had run <span class="caps">MI9 </span>(pilot and aircrew escape networks in <span class="caps">WWII</span> in Europe) and had a long history of shadowy dealings with the security services.

	<p>It&#8217;s no coincidence Blair, who is married to a Catholic, and is on the point of conversion, was the first British Premier able to conclude a deal with the Provisional <span class="caps">IRA</span>.</p>

	<p>In general Unionists still have a big influence in the senior levels of the civil service and the Army.  &#8216;Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right&#8217; was a slogan from 1913 and the fight against Irish Home Rule, but the attitude is still there in Westminster</p>
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		<title>By: EWI</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-189165</link>
		<dc:creator>EWI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Mar 2007 03:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/#comment-189165</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;How many grand military adventures of the sort most recently seen in Iraq has NATO actually undertaken?&lt;/i&gt;

What is NATO for? 

Who, exactly, is in Afghanistan at this moment? 

Answers on a postcard, please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>How many grand military adventures of the sort most recently seen in Iraq has <span class="caps">NATO</span> actually undertaken?</i></p>

	<p>What is <span class="caps">NATO</span> for?</p>

	<p>Who, exactly, is in Afghanistan at this moment?</p>

	<p>Answers on a postcard, please.</p>
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		<title>By: dearieme</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-189112</link>
		<dc:creator>dearieme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 20:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/#comment-189112</guid>
		<description>&quot;neutral in any conflict our allies are involved in&quot;: isn&#039;t that a wee bit, um, you know......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;neutral in any conflict our allies are involved in&#8221;: isn&#8217;t that a wee bit, um, you know&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Eimear Ní Mhéalóid</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-189064</link>
		<dc:creator>Eimear Ní Mhéalóid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 17:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/#comment-189064</guid>
		<description>Pete at 32: and Irish people trust our government to build/contract out/project manage anything remotely dangerous even less.  This would still be true if there were a change of governement.  Until we see some major construction projects both competently completed and up and running trouble-free for a reasonable length of time, FG or anybody else can forget about convincing Irish people to accept nuclear power generators.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Pete at 32: and Irish people trust our government to build/contract out/project manage anything remotely dangerous even less.  This would still be true if there were a change of governement.  Until we see some major construction projects both competently completed and up and running trouble-free for a reasonable length of time, FG or anybody else can forget about convincing Irish people to accept nuclear power generators.</p>
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		<title>By: Pete</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-189050</link>
		<dc:creator>Pete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 17:07:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/#comment-189050</guid>
		<description>I think that importing electricity from countries that don&#039;t care about nuclear power because they have the political and technical infrastructure is a fantastic idea, and I wish the UK government would get on with it. There is no way I trust this lot to build anything after the Dome fiasco and the recent rigged energy consultation; but France seems to be able to do it sensibly, so we should benefit from that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think that importing electricity from countries that don&#8217;t care about nuclear power because they have the political and technical infrastructure is a fantastic idea, and I wish the UK government would get on with it. There is no way I trust this lot to build anything after the Dome fiasco and the recent rigged energy consultation; but France seems to be able to do it sensibly, so we should benefit from that.</p>
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		<title>By: jay bee</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-188994</link>
		<dc:creator>jay bee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 14:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/#comment-188994</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t Catholic doublethink a wonderful thing.

The comment about environmental standards was meant more in respect of the 1980s &amp; in the context of the  &quot;Irish solution&quot; theme to the post.  I don&#039;t necessarily think that the same applies today.

Different people are opposed to the pipeline for lots of different reasons and &quot;flat earth&quot; was probably a bit strong but I would be critical of those who say they are opposed it on the risk assessment/safety issue.

I was more interested in the fact the pipline didn&#039;t seem to come up in the discussions Maria had with her blueshirt friends about energy/security issues.  We&#039;re still burning peat but we&#039;ve found some hydrocarbons only we can&#039;t seem to agree on how to get them ashore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Isn&#8217;t Catholic doublethink a wonderful thing.</p>

	<p>The comment about environmental standards was meant more in respect of the 1980s &#038; in the context of the  &#8220;Irish solution&#8221; theme to the post.  I don&#8217;t necessarily think that the same applies today.</p>

	<p>Different people are opposed to the pipeline for lots of different reasons and &#8220;flat earth&#8221; was probably a bit strong but I would be critical of those who say they are opposed it on the risk assessment/safety issue.</p>

	<p>I was more interested in the fact the pipline didn&#8217;t seem to come up in the discussions Maria had with her blueshirt friends about energy/security issues.  We&#8217;re still burning peat but we&#8217;ve found some hydrocarbons only we can&#8217;t seem to agree on how to get them ashore.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-188974</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 12:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/#comment-188974</guid>
		<description>I am amused by jay bee&#039;s comment above. 
On the one hand, Ireland is to be criticised for not enforcing environmental standards if it may cost jobs. 
On the other hand, protesters worried about the environmental effect of a land-sea gas pipeline are &#039;flat-earthers&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I am amused by jay bee&#8217;s comment above.<br />
On the one hand, Ireland is to be criticised for not enforcing environmental standards if it may cost jobs.<br />
On the other hand, protesters worried about the environmental effect of a land-sea gas pipeline are &#8216;flat-earthers&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-188973</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 12:03:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/#comment-188973</guid>
		<description>How many grand military adventures of the sort most recently seen in Iraq has NATO actually undertaken?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>How many grand military adventures of the sort most recently seen in Iraq has <span class="caps">NATO</span> actually undertaken?</p>
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		<title>By: jay bee</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-188965</link>
		<dc:creator>jay bee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 10:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/#comment-188965</guid>
		<description>The Irish solution to an Irish problem, I think its some kind of Catholic doublethink - we can have the highest environmental standards in the world but there isn&#039;t the remotest chance of them being enforced if it means closing down a chemical factory and losing a single job.

Things are changing very slowly, just look at the whole flat earth aspect of part of the objections to the Corrib gas pipeline which I was surprised Maria didn&#039;t mention in the context of any current discussion on energy policy in Ireland?  In fairness, nobody else did either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The Irish solution to an Irish problem, I think its some kind of Catholic doublethink &#8211; we can have the highest environmental standards in the world but there isn&#8217;t the remotest chance of them being enforced if it means closing down a chemical factory and losing a single job.</p>

	<p>Things are changing very slowly, just look at the whole flat earth aspect of part of the objections to the Corrib gas pipeline which I was surprised Maria didn&#8217;t mention in the context of any current discussion on energy policy in Ireland?  In fairness, nobody else did either.</p>
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		<title>By: Barista &#187; Blog Archive &#187; going down by inches</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-188954</link>
		<dc:creator>Barista &#187; Blog Archive &#187; going down by inches</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 07:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/#comment-188954</guid>
		<description>[...] The quotation comes from Crooked Timber. Maria Farrell is talking about Irish politics, where cynicism takes a different form - as in  The title of this post – the Irish solution – comes from a cynical acceptance of double standards promoted during the 1980s that outlawing contraception and abortion in Ireland were fine, because you could always get them in the UK if you had the money.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] The quotation comes from Crooked Timber. Maria Farrell is talking about Irish politics, where cynicism takes a different form &#8211; as in  The title of this post &#8211; the Irish solution &#8211; comes from a cynical acceptance of double standards promoted during the 1980s that outlawing contraception and abortion in Ireland were fine, because you could always get them in the UK if you had the money.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-188932</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Mar 2007 03:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/#comment-188932</guid>
		<description>You guys are still burning &lt;b&gt;peat&lt;/b&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You guys are still burning <b>peat</b>?</p>
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		<title>By: EWI</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-188891</link>
		<dc:creator>EWI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 20:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/#comment-188891</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Ireland is involved in setting the foreign policy of the EU. It is not involved in NATO. Tank deployment is a significant difference between the two.&lt;/i&gt;

Leaving aside the small matter of those planned EU battlegroups for the moment (we&#039;re in the Scandinavian one, if I remember correctly), Ireland &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; in PfP, which is generally accepted to be the waiting-room for full NATO membership. 

If it weren&#039;t for the Irish public having a pesky aversion to getting involved in Grand Military Adventures of the sort most recently seen in Iraq, I&#039;ve no doubt that we would have been marched into NATO a long time in many in Fine Gael had their way (I learn now, some at CT as well).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Ireland is involved in setting the foreign policy of the EU. It is not involved in <span class="caps">NATO</span>. Tank deployment is a significant difference between the two.</i></p>

	<p>Leaving aside the small matter of those planned EU battlegroups for the moment (we&#8217;re in the Scandinavian one, if I remember correctly), Ireland <i>is</i> in PfP, which is generally accepted to be the waiting-room for full <span class="caps">NATO</span> membership.</p>

	<p>If it weren&#8217;t for the Irish public having a pesky aversion to getting involved in Grand Military Adventures of the sort most recently seen in Iraq, I&#8217;ve no doubt that we would have been marched into <span class="caps">NATO</span> a long time in many in Fine Gael had their way (I learn now, some at CT as well).</p>
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		<title>By: EWI</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/comment-page-1/#comment-188890</link>
		<dc:creator>EWI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Mar 2007 20:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/06/irish-solutions/#comment-188890</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;‘It recruits Catholics and Protestants alike in Northern Ireland, the Irish neighborhoods of major British cities, and (unofficially) the Republic of Ireland. (The latter permits its citizens to enlist in the British forces, but forbids active recruiting.) ‘&lt;/i&gt;

There was a report in the Phoenix a while back that British Legion types coming over here to schools were engaged in activities that were very close to recruitment; there was never a follow-up to that article, unfortunately, so we don&#039;t know if their welcome was rescinded after that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8216;It recruits Catholics and Protestants alike in Northern Ireland, the Irish neighborhoods of major British cities, and (unofficially) the Republic of Ireland. (The latter permits its citizens to enlist in the British forces, but forbids active recruiting.) &#8216;</i></p>

	<p>There was a report in the Phoenix a while back that British Legion types coming over here to schools were engaged in activities that were very close to recruitment; there was never a follow-up to that article, unfortunately, so we don&#8217;t know if their welcome was rescinded after that.</p>
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