Comments on: Romney and the Lands Beyond the Sea http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 27 May 2012 00:43:58 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: John Emerson http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/comment-page-2/#comment-191020 John Emerson Fri, 23 Mar 2007 12:08:30 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/#comment-191020 I've often wondered whether there were any commonalities between the Mennonites and Brethren and the Hasids. Geographically and historically their origins are fairly close. I’ve often wondered whether there were any commonalities between the Mennonites and Brethren and the Hasids. Geographically and historically their origins are fairly close.

]]> By: astrongmaybe http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/comment-page-2/#comment-190997 astrongmaybe Fri, 23 Mar 2007 07:27:06 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/#comment-190997 <i>there’s also a Hasidic group proselytizing secular Jews</i> That'd be the Lubavitchers, I think. I was sitting in a park in NY once and a very young Hasidic kid came up to me and asked if I was Jewish. I was a bit taken aback, wondered what the hell would make him ask, but in fact there were three or four of them going round the park, mechanically asking every single person there the same thing. They're v. active in Brooklyn and in E. Europe - didn't know they were in France too. there’s also a Hasidic group proselytizing secular Jews

That’d be the Lubavitchers, I think. I was sitting in a park in NY once and a very young Hasidic kid came up to me and asked if I was Jewish. I was a bit taken aback, wondered what the hell would make him ask, but in fact there were three or four of them going round the park, mechanically asking every single person there the same thing. They’re v. active in Brooklyn and in E. Europe – didn’t know they were in France too.

]]> By: SamChevre http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/comment-page-2/#comment-190912 SamChevre Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:42:11 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/#comment-190912 OK, John's comment makes me think of a rather funny story. A good friend of mine, in his mid-50's, is a Plain convert. (He's part of an Amish-Mennonite church; looks like an Amish man, but has a mustache as well.) He was stopped one day by a Hasidic Jew, who thought he was Jewish; they ended up talking for awhile, and then (as a joke) claiming he was some distant relative when another proselyter walked over. The other guy believed them for quite awhile. OK, John’s comment makes me think of a rather funny story.

A good friend of mine, in his mid-50’s, is a Plain convert. (He’s part of an Amish-Mennonite church; looks like an Amish man, but has a mustache as well.) He was stopped one day by a Hasidic Jew, who thought he was Jewish; they ended up talking for awhile, and then (as a joke) claiming he was some distant relative when another proselyter walked over. The other guy believed them for quite awhile.

]]> By: John Emerson http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/comment-page-2/#comment-190908 John Emerson Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:11:44 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/#comment-190908 Actually, there's also a Hasidic group proselytizing secular Jews. I was accosted once, and a Jewish friend of mine actually went to several of their meetings. (He's in Israel now, but he's remained secular). Actually, there’s also a Hasidic group proselytizing secular Jews. I was accosted once, and a Jewish friend of mine actually went to several of their meetings. (He’s in Israel now, but he’s remained secular).

]]> By: dave heasman http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/comment-page-2/#comment-190906 dave heasman Thu, 22 Mar 2007 17:06:49 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/#comment-190906 Uncle Kvetch in 30 : - "I was walking in the Marais one day when I was stopped by a guy holding a clipboard who asked me, in unmarked American English, “Excuse me, Sir—are you Jewish?” “No,” I replied, and went on.." Your clipboarder was almost certainly a "Jew for Jesus" looking for a convert. Happened to me in London about 5 years ago. I replied, having waited for the opportunity since 1969, "No, a tree fell on me. In Oldham." (A Spike Milligan failed catchphrase from an unsuccessful TV series) Uncle Kvetch in 30 : – “I was walking in the Marais one day when I was stopped by a guy holding a clipboard who asked me, in unmarked American English, “Excuse me, Sir—are you Jewish?” “No,” I replied, and went on..”

Your clipboarder was almost certainly a “Jew for Jesus” looking for a convert. Happened to me in London about 5 years ago. I replied, having waited for the opportunity since 1969, “No, a tree fell on me. In Oldham.”
(A Spike Milligan failed catchphrase from an unsuccessful TV series)

]]> By: John Emerson http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/comment-page-2/#comment-190871 John Emerson Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:48:06 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/#comment-190871 What about the hot French babes? What about the hot French babes?

]]> By: nick s http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/comment-page-2/#comment-190868 nick s Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:42:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/#comment-190868 <i>The allegedly shocking nature of exposure to alcohol consumption in #1, #24, and #47 seems a bit off the mark.</i> Oh, I wasn't suggesting that LDS missionaries would be <i>shocked</i> by it. The allegedly shocking nature of exposure to alcohol consumption in #1, #24, and #47 seems a bit off the mark.

Oh, I wasn’t suggesting that LDS missionaries would be shocked by it.

]]> By: Nat Whilk http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/comment-page-2/#comment-190841 Nat Whilk Thu, 22 Mar 2007 13:25:17 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/#comment-190841 The allegedly shocking nature of exposure to alcohol consumption in #1, #24, and #47 seems a bit off the mark. I served my mission in Germany 15 years after Romney was in France, but I can't recall a single time that any of my fellow missionaries expressed shock that Germans drink beer. There was the crazy drunk who challenged me to a kung-fu fight while we were doing street contacting in the Altstadt of Düsseldorf, but for all I know he might have been crazy and belligerent when he was sober, too. As for tobacco, the main problem was figuring out how to get the stench of smoke out of our clothes when we spent much time teaching a heavy user. The allegedly shocking nature of exposure to alcohol consumption in #1, #24, and #47 seems a bit off the mark. I served my mission in Germany 15 years after Romney was in France, but I can’t recall a single time that any of my fellow missionaries expressed shock that Germans drink beer. There was the crazy drunk who challenged me to a kung-fu fight while we were doing street contacting in the Altstadt of Düsseldorf, but for all I know he might have been crazy and belligerent when he was sober, too. As for tobacco, the main problem was figuring out how to get the stench of smoke out of our clothes when we spent much time teaching a heavy user.

]]> By: Jeffrey http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/comment-page-2/#comment-190837 Jeffrey Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:55:40 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/#comment-190837 #2 sounds like John Kerry. #2 sounds like John Kerry.

]]> By: engels http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/comment-page-2/#comment-190836 engels Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:52:38 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/#comment-190836 Alex: that's not what I meant. I was trying to make a joke about the perennial tendency of nationalists to seek to make rhetorical capital by exploiting the ready accessibility of what appears to be a suspiciously malleable and perhaps essentially ideological conception of liberty in order to portray other countries in a sharply negative light, notwithstanding the scant justification in terms of verifiable facts which might be available to support such a rhetorical disparagement. I know, I know, it's the way I tell 'em. Alex: that’s not what I meant. I was trying to make a joke about the perennial tendency of nationalists to seek to make rhetorical capital by exploiting the ready accessibility of what appears to be a suspiciously malleable and perhaps essentially ideological conception of liberty in order to portray other countries in a sharply negative light, notwithstanding the scant justification in terms of verifiable facts which might be available to support such a rhetorical disparagement.

I know, I know, it’s the way I tell ‘em.

]]> By: astrongmaybe http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/comment-page-2/#comment-190833 astrongmaybe Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:27:46 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/#comment-190833 @45 - hmmm, am a little skeptical - the "God is now unemployed" derivation seems a little far-fetched to me: why would God want to live in a country which denigrated his very name? Some notional anonymous idleness would hardly make up for that... In any case, even if that's the origin, the persistence of the usage "live like God in France" is really only explicable as France ="luxury, sensuality" and God ="without limit." Endless luxury. @45 – hmmm, am a little skeptical – the “God is now unemployed” derivation seems a little far-fetched to me: why would God want to live in a country which denigrated his very name? Some notional anonymous idleness would hardly make up for that…

In any case, even if that’s the origin, the persistence of the usage “live like God in France” is really only explicable as France =”luxury, sensuality” and God =”without limit.” Endless luxury.

]]> By: Alex http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/comment-page-2/#comment-190828 Alex Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:51:29 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/#comment-190828 14: Come on, you can't beat French political discourse for windy rhetoric. 14: Come on, you can’t beat French political discourse for windy rhetoric.

]]> By: John Emerson http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-190827 John Emerson Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:30:48 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/#comment-190827 The first Sherlock Holmes story was a full-length novel featuring villainous Mormons: "A Study in Scarlet", I think. They were the Scientologists of their time, and were militarily suppressed by the US government. The first Sherlock Holmes story was a full-length novel featuring villainous Mormons: “A Study in Scarlet”, I think. They were the Scientologists of their time, and were militarily suppressed by the US government.

]]> By: John Emerson http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-190826 John Emerson Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:28:46 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/#comment-190826 I can state both the pro-Mormon and antiMormon cased, based on having had a Mormon mother-in-law. Mormons have several superiorities to generic American Protestantism: less stress on crucifixion masochism, no hellfire at all, dances in church, and charity within the church. Both crypto-Mormons and ex-Mormons (technically Jackmormons, e.g. the earlier poster here) have made a lot of contributions to science and other kinds of scholarship. I class them with Hasidic Jews, in the sense that training in a demanding, non-conformist, especially loony religion develops a strong ability to master difficult material whose interest is not immediately evident (e.g. organic chemistry). For theological and geographical reasons, Mormons have left an enormous mark on genealogy, linguistics, and irrigation technology. On the other hand, you don't want to be a non-Mormon or an apostate Mormon in a 90% Mormon town, and you don't want a Mormon mother-in-law. I can state both the pro-Mormon and antiMormon cased, based on having had a Mormon mother-in-law. Mormons have several superiorities to generic American Protestantism: less stress on crucifixion masochism, no hellfire at all, dances in church, and charity within the church. Both crypto-Mormons and ex-Mormons (technically Jackmormons, e.g. the earlier poster here) have made a lot of contributions to science and other kinds of scholarship. I class them with Hasidic Jews, in the sense that training in a demanding, non-conformist, especially loony religion develops a strong ability to master difficult material whose interest is not immediately evident (e.g. organic chemistry).

For theological and geographical reasons, Mormons have left an enormous mark on genealogy, linguistics, and irrigation technology.

On the other hand, you don’t want to be a non-Mormon or an apostate Mormon in a 90% Mormon town, and you don’t want a Mormon mother-in-law.

]]> By: Ray http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/comment-page-1/#comment-190825 Ray Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:20:52 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/03/21/romney-and-the-lands-beyond-the-sea/#comment-190825 <i>I’m a little puzzled at the ignorance and disdain for the Mormon faith shown in so many posts on this and other weblogs. </i> It's like Scientology - obviously nuts, and without the respectability that other (equally insane) religions have gained over time. I’m a little puzzled at the ignorance and disdain for the Mormon faith shown in so many posts on this and other weblogs.

It’s like Scientology – obviously nuts, and without the respectability that other (equally insane) religions have gained over time.

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