<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Linkage</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:53:32 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: sara</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/comment-page-1/#comment-194578</link>
		<dc:creator>sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:03:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/#comment-194578</guid>
		<description>If libraries were invented today, the books would have many pages torn out, to protect copyright. To find out how the gripping mystery novel ends, you&#039;d have to buy the book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If libraries were invented today, the books would have many pages torn out, to protect copyright. To find out how the gripping mystery novel ends, you&#8217;d have to buy the book.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt Weiner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/comment-page-1/#comment-194574</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Weiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 21:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/#comment-194574</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Thank you for your most kind sentiments.&lt;/i&gt;

Sorry, I didn&#039;t mean to express a wish that you or any other grass-roots conservative go to jail (of course I disagree with your ideology most profoundly); I meant the conservatives who until recently were in charge, that is the congresspeople, administration officials, and fixers who are currently the subjects of various corruption investigations; sometime soon I hope that some of them will also be prosecuted for war crimes and other abuses of power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Thank you for your most kind sentiments.</i></p>

	<p>Sorry, I didn&#8217;t mean to express a wish that you or any other grass-roots conservative go to jail (of course I disagree with your ideology most profoundly); I meant the conservatives who until recently were in charge, that is the congresspeople, administration officials, and fixers who are currently the subjects of various corruption investigations; sometime soon I hope that some of them will also be prosecuted for war crimes and other abuses of power.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Luis Alegria</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/comment-page-1/#comment-194570</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Alegria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 20:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/#comment-194570</guid>
		<description>Mr. Engels,

That gets right down to the chicken-egg issue. 

Richardson is assuming prosperity is the cause of high IQ. This assumption is no better supported than that where high IQ is a cause of prosperity. 

And there are enormous counterfactuals he has to explain away. 

Which gets to my point - this is an interesting correlation that needs, no, cries out for exploration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Mr. Engels,</p>

	<p>That gets right down to the chicken-egg issue.</p>

	<p>Richardson is assuming prosperity is the cause of high IQ. This assumption is no better supported than that where high IQ is a cause of prosperity.</p>

	<p>And there are enormous counterfactuals he has to explain away.</p>

	<p>Which gets to my point &#8211; this is an interesting correlation that needs, no, cries out for exploration.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/comment-page-1/#comment-194569</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/#comment-194569</guid>
		<description>Sorry, my #20 was a bit garbled. I&#039;m not really qualified to detail Richardson&#039;s views but as far as I can see his main points are that IQ does not measure intelligence and high IQ essentially consists in membership of the middle class. All Lynn could hope to have shown with his study, according to him, is that developed countries have a bigger middle class, which isn&#039;t informative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sorry, my #20 was a bit garbled. I&#8217;m not really qualified to detail Richardson&#8217;s views but as far as I can see his main points are that IQ does not measure intelligence and high IQ essentially consists in membership of the middle class. All Lynn could hope to have shown with his study, according to him, is that developed countries have a bigger middle class, which isn&#8217;t informative.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Luis Alegria</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/comment-page-1/#comment-194568</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Alegria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:01:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/#comment-194568</guid>
		<description>Mr. Engels,

Why does IQ have to be a simple biometric trait ? That is an attack on a strawman it seems to me. Even Flynn would not argue like Richardson. 

&quot;Richardson’s argument is that IQ tests measure a nexus of sociocognitive-affective factors which are determined by social class rather than a simple biometric trait. &quot;

That means to my poor dull mind that you agree that he denies a biological component to differences in IQ. 

Regardless, even if such national differences in average IQ are entirely an environmental/cultural effect, which is perfectly possible, it makes the data even more interesting. It means that somewhere in that mysterious phenomenon is the key that explains the states of mind that creates material success. 

It is telling that you can much more effectively and simply explain the differences between Phillipine and South Korean growth rates, or Malay and Chinese prosperity in Malaysia, for a couple of examples, with this IQ metric than with anything else.  

How about another one ? Why is Thailand richer than the Philippines ? Its in the data - Thailand has higher IQ, no doubt because, voila, Thailand has maybe 3X more Chinese. 

I&#039;m not there with Sailer et. al. on ubermenschen and untermenschen, being as I am after all one of the untermenschen, but it doesn&#039;t seem like you can get away by waving the thing off as an effect of prosperity and not a cause. There are far too many counterfactuals here, where IQ has not followed prosperity but preceded it. One sees it happening right now in China.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Mr. Engels,</p>

	<p>Why does IQ have to be a simple biometric trait ? That is an attack on a strawman it seems to me. Even Flynn would not argue like Richardson.</p>

	<p>&#8220;Richardson&#8217;s argument is that IQ tests measure a nexus of sociocognitive-affective factors which are determined by social class rather than a simple biometric trait. &#8221;</p>

	<p>That means to my poor dull mind that you agree that he denies a biological component to differences in IQ.</p>

	<p>Regardless, even if such national differences in average IQ are entirely an environmental/cultural effect, which is perfectly possible, it makes the data even more interesting. It means that somewhere in that mysterious phenomenon is the key that explains the states of mind that creates material success.</p>

	<p>It is telling that you can much more effectively and simply explain the differences between Phillipine and South Korean growth rates, or Malay and Chinese prosperity in Malaysia, for a couple of examples, with this IQ metric than with anything else.</p>

	<p>How about another one ? Why is Thailand richer than the Philippines ? Its in the data &#8211; Thailand has higher IQ, no doubt because, voila, Thailand has maybe 3X more Chinese.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m not there with Sailer et. al. on ubermenschen and untermenschen, being as I am after all one of the untermenschen, but it doesn&#8217;t seem like you can get away by waving the thing off as an effect of prosperity and not a cause. There are far too many counterfactuals here, where IQ has not followed prosperity but preceded it. One sees it happening right now in China.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/comment-page-1/#comment-194567</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/#comment-194567</guid>
		<description>Luis - I don&#039;t really want to get into a debate about this but you&#039;re misreading Richardson if you think he is a &quot;pure environmentalist&quot;: the remarks you quote are not addressed to the problem of apportioning genetic and environmental components of intelligence but to the question of whether IQ tests measure a simple biometric trait. Richardson thinks it doesn&#039;t. I don&#039;t think that&#039;s an &quot;extreme&quot; position, it seems quite likely to me in the light of the existence of the Flynn effect, among other phenomena. (As a non-psychologist when trying to decide who, if anyone, is an extremist in terms of the consensus within academic psychology I must say I tend to give more weight to reviewers in &lt;i&gt;Nature&lt;/i&gt; and the official journal of the APA then I do to you, Steve Sailer and the cranks at GNXP.)

Richardson&#039;s argument is that IQ tests measure a nexus of sociocognitive-affective factors which are determined by social class rather than a simple biometric trait. Correlations within national measures of average IQ scores and levels of development would therefore be entirely to be expected but of no explanatory value, even if the study had been properly conducted, which it wasn&#039;t. Thus your unsupported assertion that &quot;the correlations are robust&quot; misses his point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Luis &#8211; I don&#8217;t really want to get into a debate about this but you&#8217;re misreading Richardson if you think he is a &#8220;pure environmentalist&#8221;: the remarks you quote are not addressed to the problem of apportioning genetic and environmental components of intelligence but to the question of whether IQ tests measure a simple biometric trait. Richardson thinks it doesn&#8217;t. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s an &#8220;extreme&#8221; position, it seems quite likely to me in the light of the existence of the Flynn effect, among other phenomena. (As a non-psychologist when trying to decide who, if anyone, is an extremist in terms of the consensus within academic psychology I must say I tend to give more weight to reviewers in <i>Nature</i> and the official journal of the <span class="caps">APA</span> then I do to you, Steve Sailer and the cranks at <span class="caps">GNXP</span>.)</p>

	<p>Richardson&#8217;s argument is that IQ tests measure a nexus of sociocognitive-affective factors which are determined by social class rather than a simple biometric trait. Correlations within national measures of average IQ scores and levels of development would therefore be entirely to be expected but of no explanatory value, even if the study had been properly conducted, which it wasn&#8217;t. Thus your unsupported assertion that &#8220;the correlations are robust&#8221; misses his point.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Luis Alegria</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/comment-page-1/#comment-194565</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Alegria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:20:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/#comment-194565</guid>
		<description>Mr. Engels,

Teh &quot;Heredity&quot; reviewer, come to think of it, has a rather non-mainstream point of view, in that -

&quot;Good IQ scores thus simply reflect the educational aspirations and the cognitive, linguistic, and affective dispositions that go with middle class background.&quot;

I.e., the man is a pure environmentalist, which seems an extreme position. The mainstream position is that measured IQ is the result of both heredity and environment, the recent consensus tending to weighting heredity. This does not necessarily require that group differences be rooted in biology. 

He also misses the point that even if evaluated as a pure cultural artifact, IQ says a great deal about cultural preparation for success in the modern world, as it can be shown not only to accompany such success, but to predict it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Mr. Engels,</p>

	<p>Teh &#8220;Heredity&#8221; reviewer, come to think of it, has a rather non-mainstream point of view, in that &#8211;<br />
&#8220;Good IQ scores thus simply reflect the educational aspirations and the cognitive, linguistic, and affective dispositions that go with middle class background.&#8221;</p>

	<p>I.e., the man is a pure environmentalist, which seems an extreme position. The mainstream position is that measured IQ is the result of both heredity and environment, the recent consensus tending to weighting heredity. This does not necessarily require that group differences be rooted in biology.</p>

	<p>He also misses the point that even if evaluated as a pure cultural artifact, IQ says a great deal about cultural preparation for success in the modern world, as it can be shown not only to accompany such success, but to predict it.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Luis Alegria</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/comment-page-1/#comment-194563</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Alegria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:31:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/#comment-194563</guid>
		<description>Mr. Weiner, 

Thank you for your most kind sentiments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Mr. Weiner,</p>

	<p>Thank you for your most kind sentiments.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Luis Alegria</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/comment-page-1/#comment-194562</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Alegria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:29:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/#comment-194562</guid>
		<description>Mr. Engels,

Yes indeed, that is why these gentlemen, or someone else, should go off and make a similar study to check the mans facts. 

As it happens, several have. The correlations are robust, even leaving out questionable data. 

He draws conclusions from the data that may be entirely wrong. But yet this is a phenomenon that requires explanation, not arm-waving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Mr. Engels,</p>

	<p>Yes indeed, that is why these gentlemen, or someone else, should go off and make a similar study to check the mans facts.</p>

	<p>As it happens, several have. The correlations are robust, even leaving out questionable data.</p>

	<p>He draws conclusions from the data that may be entirely wrong. But yet this is a phenomenon that requires explanation, not arm-waving.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Luis Alegria</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/comment-page-1/#comment-194561</link>
		<dc:creator>Luis Alegria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 16:25:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/#comment-194561</guid>
		<description>Mr. Weiner,

Thats true, and life is good. 

I suppose all those mandatory beatings of liberals can get tiring, but a man needs his exercise after all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Mr. Weiner,</p>

	<p>Thats true, and life is good.</p>

	<p>I suppose all those mandatory beatings of liberals can get tiring, but a man needs his exercise after all.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt Weiner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/comment-page-1/#comment-194557</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Weiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/#comment-194557</guid>
		<description>Or were; now they&#039;re, god willing, all going to jail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Or were; now they&#8217;re, god willing, all going to jail.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt Weiner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/comment-page-1/#comment-194556</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Weiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:19:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/#comment-194556</guid>
		<description>The amazing thing is that Alegria thinks that he&#039;s contradicting Walt by saying &quot;If it is the US, I live here too, and I am a conservative, of very long standing and the deepest dye. The place looks like it is in excellent condition.&quot; That &lt;b&gt;proves&lt;/b&gt; Walt&#039;s point: the conservatives are in charge here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The amazing thing is that Alegria thinks that he&#8217;s contradicting Walt by saying &#8220;If it is the US, I live here too, and I am a conservative, of very long standing and the deepest dye. The place looks like it is in excellent condition.&#8221; That <b>proves</b> Walt&#8217;s point: the conservatives are in charge here.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/comment-page-1/#comment-194550</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 14:00:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/#comment-194550</guid>
		<description>I do think it might be worthwhile, though, to enquire how much recent world history can be explained by the IQ of the current American president and by that of the people who voted for him, particularly those of them like Luis who after all the events of the last six years continue to maintain that everything is going swimmingly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I do think it might be worthwhile, though, to enquire how much recent world history can be explained by the IQ of the current American president and by that of the people who voted for him, particularly those of them like Luis who after all the events of the last six years continue to maintain that everything is going swimmingly.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: engels</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/comment-page-1/#comment-194548</link>
		<dc:creator>engels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 13:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/#comment-194548</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Its speculative nature is no worse supported than any other school of thought; if anything it has better data behind it, however limited.&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s funny, Luis. So why do you think Barnett and Williams in their review for &lt;i&gt;Contemporary Psychology: APA Review of Books&lt;/i&gt; describe it as &quot;an edifice built on layer upon layer of arbitrary assumptions and selective data manipulation&quot;? And why does Ken Richardson in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v92/n4/full/6800418a.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hereditary&lt;/a&gt; refer to it as &quot;not so much science... as a social crusade&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Its speculative nature is no worse supported than any other school of thought; if anything it has better data behind it, however limited.</i></p>

	<p>That&#8217;s funny, Luis. So why do you think Barnett and Williams in their review for <i>Contemporary Psychology: <span class="caps">APA </span>Review of Books</i> describe it as &#8220;an edifice built on layer upon layer of arbitrary assumptions and selective data manipulation&#8221;? And why does Ken Richardson in <a href="http://www.nature.com/hdy/journal/v92/n4/full/6800418a.html" rel="nofollow">Hereditary</a> refer to it as &#8220;not so much science&#8230; as a social crusade&#8221;?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: dave heasman</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/comment-page-1/#comment-194532</link>
		<dc:creator>dave heasman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/25/linkage-4/#comment-194532</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think the more general preoccupation of the last few decades has concerned public morality, and how to restore it.&quot;

 Wow. That would be some sort of morality that excludes mass killing, larceny, bribery and sex with under-age boys?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;I think the more general preoccupation of the last few decades has concerned public morality, and how to restore it.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Wow. That would be some sort of morality that excludes mass killing, larceny, bribery and sex with under-age boys?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk: basic
Page Caching using disk: enhanced

Served from: crookedtimber.org @ 2012-02-13 03:12:59 -->
