Comments on: Choke Point http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 22 Nov 2009 10:39:04 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: David Margolies http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/comment-page-1/#comment-194931 David Margolies Tue, 01 May 2007 20:44:58 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/#comment-194931 "As I understand it, the section destroyed is the new structure built after the cypress overpass fell in the quake." No. The piece that fell down has been there for a long time. The piece it fell onto (the damage to which was not clear the last time I checked) was new freeway. The newer overpasses do not have exposed steel beams, as the one that collapsed did. I do not know what would have happened if the overpass was built to the new standard. Now that things have settled, it is not so very bad. There are three ways to go when you come east on the Bay Bridge: 80 E to berkeley and Sacramento, 880 S to south Oakland and San Jose, and 580 E to north Oakland and on to Walnut Creek and Concord. It is the last that collapsed, onto the (new) connector from 880 to 80 E (i.e. from south oakland to berkeley). That last seems to be closed in both directions but it has an easy alternative and will likely be working again soonest. Getting onto the bridge toward san francisco is not affected at all, as far as I can tell. “As I understand it, the section destroyed is the new structure built after the cypress overpass fell in the quake.”

No. The piece that fell down has been there for a long time. The piece it fell onto (the damage to which was not clear the last time I checked) was new freeway. The newer overpasses do not have exposed steel beams, as the one that collapsed did. I do not know what would have happened if the overpass was built to the new standard.

Now that things have settled, it is not so very bad. There are three ways to go when you come east on the Bay Bridge: 80 E to berkeley and Sacramento, 880 S to south Oakland and San Jose, and 580 E to north Oakland and on to Walnut Creek and Concord. It is the last that collapsed, onto the (new) connector from 880 to 80 E (i.e. from south oakland to berkeley). That last seems to be closed in both directions but it has an easy alternative and will likely be working again soonest.

Getting onto the bridge toward san francisco is not affected at all, as far as I can tell.

]]> By: Valuethinker http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/comment-page-1/#comment-194881 Valuethinker Tue, 01 May 2007 14:01:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/#comment-194881 It's worth reflecting on the hidden costs of a petrol-driven economy. No one died in this, but the potential loss of life was huge. When, in the future, you hear objections to the hydrogen economy like 'too dangerous', remember to ask yourself 'compared to what?' It’s worth reflecting on the hidden costs of a petrol-driven economy.

No one died in this, but the potential loss of life was huge.

When, in the future, you hear objections to the hydrogen economy like ‘too dangerous’, remember to ask yourself ‘compared to what?’

]]> By: W. Kiernan http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/comment-page-1/#comment-194829 W. Kiernan Tue, 01 May 2007 01:23:55 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/#comment-194829 At least it's a relief to read that the driver didn't die. Here in St. Petersburg (Florida) another tank truck driver with a load of diesel fuel crashed under the I-375 overpass just one month ago. Unlike the San Francisco driver he was killed, the fire reduced his truck to a bent frame and axles, and the burning load of diesel fuel also destroyed a part of the overpass under which his truck crashed. I was amazed to see that the overpass got fixed in only one month. The damage to the road was far less extensive than the mess in San Fransisco, though; they only had to replace one span between two pylons. At least it’s a relief to read that the driver didn’t die. Here in St. Petersburg (Florida) another tank truck driver with a load of diesel fuel crashed under the I-375 overpass just one month ago. Unlike the San Francisco driver he was killed, the fire reduced his truck to a bent frame and axles, and the burning load of diesel fuel also destroyed a part of the overpass under which his truck crashed. I was amazed to see that the overpass got fixed in only one month. The damage to the road was far less extensive than the mess in San Fransisco, though; they only had to replace one span between two pylons.

]]> By: Michael B Sullivan http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/comment-page-1/#comment-194827 Michael B Sullivan Tue, 01 May 2007 00:54:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/#comment-194827 Traffic was apparently fine, today, according to my coworkers (I stay firmly on the West side of the Bay in my daily commute, which I think of as a sort of Wester-Coast-Than-Thou approach). Rumor has it that it will be awful beginning tomorrow, as the theory is that today a bunch of people either stayed home or took transit, while tomorrow they're brave the streets again. Traffic was apparently fine, today, according to my coworkers (I stay firmly on the West side of the Bay in my daily commute, which I think of as a sort of Wester-Coast-Than-Thou approach). Rumor has it that it will be awful beginning tomorrow, as the theory is that today a bunch of people either stayed home or took transit, while tomorrow they’re brave the streets again.

]]> By: David in NY http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/comment-page-1/#comment-194797 David in NY Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:21:59 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/#comment-194797 This seems to happen with some regularity. Usually no bridge is involved, but sometimes there is one. In 2004 on I-95 in Connecticut. In Michigan on I-69 in Flint a couple of years ago. It makes one wonder if there should be a systematic safety review of tanker accidents. This seems to happen with some regularity. Usually no bridge is involved, but sometimes there is one. In 2004 on I-95 in Connecticut. In Michigan on I-69 in Flint a couple of years ago. It makes one wonder if there should be a systematic safety review of tanker accidents.

]]> By: C. L. Ball http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/comment-page-1/#comment-194789 C. L. Ball Mon, 30 Apr 2007 18:12:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/#comment-194789 This is so obviously a plot by SF real estate agents. This is so obviously a plot by SF real estate agents.

]]> By: pdf23ds http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/comment-page-1/#comment-194785 pdf23ds Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:19:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/#comment-194785 I guess it would be inappropriate to link <a href="http://xkcd.com/c253.html" rel="nofollow">this</a>. I guess it would be inappropriate to link this.

]]> By: Clayton http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/comment-page-1/#comment-194778 Clayton Mon, 30 Apr 2007 16:17:00 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/#comment-194778 That was one hell of an explosion, it melted steel, fucked traffic, and allowed someone to use 'Crooked Timber' and 'Michelle Malkin' in a single sentence. That was one hell of an explosion, it melted steel, fucked traffic, and allowed someone to use ‘Crooked Timber’ and ‘Michelle Malkin’ in a single sentence.

]]> By: Tom Hilton http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/comment-page-1/#comment-194777 Tom Hilton Mon, 30 Apr 2007 15:39:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/#comment-194777 <i>As I understand it, the section destroyed is the new structure built after the cypress overpass fell in the quake. </i> Yes, that's the place. I am so glad I live in San Francisco. I just have to suffer the torment of Muni. (Of course, even if I didn't, I'd be taking BART. Not a lot of sympathy for the driving class, I'm afraid.) btw, this reminds me of a pier fire (Piers 26-28) back in the mid-'80s. Traffic was stopped on the Bay Bridge from all the rubberneckers--and to be fair, it was really spectacular. I went by the piers about a week later, and the girders were draped like spaghetti. As I understand it, the section destroyed is the new structure built after the cypress overpass fell in the quake.

Yes, that’s the place.

I am so glad I live in San Francisco. I just have to suffer the torment of Muni. (Of course, even if I didn’t, I’d be taking BART. Not a lot of sympathy for the driving class, I’m afraid.)

btw, this reminds me of a pier fire (Piers 26-28) back in the mid-’80s. Traffic was stopped on the Bay Bridge from all the rubberneckers—and to be fair, it was really spectacular. I went by the piers about a week later, and the girders were draped like spaghetti.

]]> By: Eszter http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/comment-page-1/#comment-194775 Eszter Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:37:23 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/#comment-194775 Heard about this just before leaving Yosemite yesterday and thus avoided 580 altogether. I don't envy the people commuting to Berkeley from Palo Alto and other parts around here.. and there seem to be quite a few such folks in the area. Heard about this just before leaving Yosemite yesterday and thus avoided 580 altogether. I don’t envy the people commuting to Berkeley from Palo Alto and other parts around here.. and there seem to be quite a few such folks in the area.

]]> By: Tim Worstall http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/comment-page-1/#comment-194771 Tim Worstall Mon, 30 Apr 2007 10:58:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/#comment-194771 <strong>Fire Melting Steel...</strong> Yes, this one story will be so annoying for the 9/11 conspiracists to read. As is noted just about everywhere in fact. Michelle Malkin, Hot Air, Crooked Timber (did anyone actually believe that those three would ever agree about anything?... Fire Melting Steel…

Yes, this one story will be so annoying for the 9/11 conspiracists to read. As is noted just about everywhere in fact. Michelle Malkin, Hot Air, Crooked Timber (did anyone actually believe that those three would ever agree about anything?…

]]> By: Jim Flannery http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/comment-page-1/#comment-194769 Jim Flannery Mon, 30 Apr 2007 07:01:59 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/#comment-194769 Jay #11: Dreamer. The new 880 is what the collapsed freeway landed on. The collapsed freeway is 580. Both are out of commission. Jay #11:

Dreamer.

The new 880 is what the collapsed freeway landed on. The collapsed freeway is 580. Both are out of commission.

]]> By: elliottg http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/comment-page-1/#comment-194763 elliottg Mon, 30 Apr 2007 06:03:59 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/#comment-194763 Free public transit tomorrow. Free public transit tomorrow.

]]> By: luci http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/comment-page-1/#comment-194755 luci Mon, 30 Apr 2007 03:13:27 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/#comment-194755 I used to live in Berkeley, and crossed the bay bridge daily. Thankfully I live in SF and have no need to cross anymore. I bet the BART (subway/rapid transit thingie) is gonna be packed. I used to live in Berkeley, and crossed the bay bridge daily. Thankfully I live in SF and have no need to cross anymore. I bet the BART (subway/rapid transit thingie) is gonna be packed.

]]> By: Jay Conner http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/comment-page-1/#comment-194749 Jay Conner Mon, 30 Apr 2007 01:54:19 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/choke-point/#comment-194749 As I understand it, the section destroyed is the new structure built after the cypress overpass fell in the quake. I used to drive the San Rafael/San Leandro route weekly when I was in the homebrew business to access a wholesaler, going through the 580/Downtown Oakland section. When the new 880 section was opened, it made things simpler, and it was easier to get to the Oakland Airport...so now we have to go back to the route I used to use ? No big deal. As I understand it, the section destroyed is the new structure built after the cypress overpass fell in the quake. I used to drive the San Rafael/San Leandro route weekly when I was in the homebrew business to access a wholesaler, going through the 580/Downtown Oakland section. When the new 880 section was opened, it made things simpler, and it was easier to get to the Oakland Airport…so now we have to go back to the route I used to use ?

No big deal.

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