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	<title>Comments on: Into the West</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Nat Whilk</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-195235</link>
		<dc:creator>Nat Whilk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 20:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/#comment-195235</guid>
		<description>In #43, joshua w. burton wrote:  &quot;&lt;i&gt;[Daniel] Boone  . . .never . . . lived a day of his life in a US state.&lt;/i&gt;&quot;

What an odd claim.  Where was he living from 1795 to 1799, when everyone else seems to think he was living in the state of Kentucky?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In #43, joshua w. burton wrote:  &#8220;<i>[Daniel] Boone  . . .never . . . lived a day of his life in a US state.</i>&#8221;</p>

	<p>What an odd claim.  Where was he living from 1795 to 1799, when everyone else seems to think he was living in the state of Kentucky?</p>
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		<title>By: Valuethinker</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-195104</link>
		<dc:creator>Valuethinker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 16:31:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/#comment-195104</guid>
		<description>Did anyone else read &#039;Classic Comics&#039; in their youth?

Kit Carson, and Marco Polo, would be two people whose careers I know of, primarily (and vividly) through Classic Comics.

Human memory is visual, or more strongly so than that communicated by reading.

It is for this reason that we remember the movie, typically, better than the novel (think &#039;The Big Sleep&#039;), and the comic book treatment better than some dull high school history text.

37 asks what happened to history?  The answer is there is room for all those people.  The history you and I were taught, by ignoring the aboriginal inhabitants, the black slaves, the likes of the Chinese migrants who built the railways, and the women, was an entirely partial and incomplete history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Did anyone else read &#8216;Classic Comics&#8217; in their youth?</p>

	<p>Kit Carson, and Marco Polo, would be two people whose careers I know of, primarily (and vividly) through Classic Comics.</p>

	<p>Human memory is visual, or more strongly so than that communicated by reading.</p>

	<p>It is for this reason that we remember the movie, typically, better than the novel (think &#8216;The Big Sleep&#8217;), and the comic book treatment better than some dull high school history text.</p>

	<p>37 asks what happened to history?  The answer is there is room for all those people.  The history you and I were taught, by ignoring the aboriginal inhabitants, the black slaves, the likes of the Chinese migrants who built the railways, and the women, was an entirely partial and incomplete history.</p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-195048</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 01:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/#comment-195048</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure why John C. Frémont&#039;s name has an accent, but it in fact does.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m not sure why John C. Fr&#233;mont&#8217;s name has an accent, but it in fact does.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua W. Burton</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-194961</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua W. Burton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 May 2007 00:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/#comment-194961</guid>
		<description>Oh, and Tecumseh, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Oh, and Tecumseh, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua W. Burton</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-194952</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua W. Burton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 23:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/#comment-194952</guid>
		<description>Carson and Crockett were both US citizens, though the latter died fighting in a foreign army.  Boone (whose sons grew up with Kit Carson, by the way) is the odd man out, having served as a Virginian, a British prisoner and quisling, and finally a Spanish officer, but by careful intent never having lived a day of his life in a US state.

USS Daniel Boone (SSBN-629) was a nuclear missile sub in the &quot;Fighting Furriner&quot; series, along with foreign flag heroes Kamehameha, Stonewall Jackson, Robert E. Lee, and Sam Houston, and foreigner allies Simon Bolivar, Casimir Pulaski, Lafayette and don Vallejo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Carson and Crockett were both US citizens, though the latter died fighting in a foreign army.  Boone (whose sons grew up with Kit Carson, by the way) is the odd man out, having served as a Virginian, a British prisoner and quisling, and finally a Spanish officer, but by careful intent never having lived a day of his life in a US state.</p>

	<p><span class="caps">USS </span>Daniel Boone (SSBN-629) was a nuclear missile sub in the &#8220;Fighting Furriner&#8221; series, along with foreign flag heroes Kamehameha, Stonewall Jackson, Robert E. Lee, and Sam Houston, and foreigner allies Simon Bolivar, Casimir Pulaski, Lafayette and don Vallejo.</p>
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		<title>By: gab</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-194949</link>
		<dc:creator>gab</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 22:42:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/#comment-194949</guid>
		<description>Why does Fremont&#039;s name have an accent?  We&#039;re talking about John C. Fremont right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Why does Fremont&#8217;s name have an accent?  We&#8217;re talking about John C. Fremont right?</p>
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		<title>By: Gene O'Grady</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-194815</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene O'Grady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 22:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/#comment-194815</guid>
		<description>Response to #37, actually Kit Carson is completely connected with the experience of non-white Americans, having been married to three of them, most lastingly to a woman named Jaramillo who saved his life when most of the &quot;whites&quot; in Taos were killed.  Furthermore, in the Civil War he commanded largely Hispanic militia units fighting against the hated racists invading from Texas.

I don&#039;t want to argue the case, but Wikipedia quotes about a military officer being directly or indirectly responsible.... is hardly the same thing as being a murderer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Response to #37, actually Kit Carson is completely connected with the experience of non-white Americans, having been married to three of them, most lastingly to a woman named Jaramillo who saved his life when most of the &#8220;whites&#8221; in Taos were killed.  Furthermore, in the Civil War he commanded largely Hispanic militia units fighting against the hated racists invading from Texas.</p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t want to argue the case, but Wikipedia quotes about a military officer being directly or indirectly responsible&#8230;. is hardly the same thing as being a murderer.</p>
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		<title>By: Linkmeister</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-194792</link>
		<dc:creator>Linkmeister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 19:07:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/#comment-194792</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;ve spent more time in Arizona than in New Mexico, but seems to me the Sangre de Cristo range around Santa Fe is just as beautiful as the San Francisco range around Flagstaff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well, I&#8217;ve spent more time in Arizona than in New Mexico, but seems to me the Sangre de Cristo range around Santa Fe is just as beautiful as the San Francisco range around Flagstaff.</p>
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		<title>By: aaron</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-194788</link>
		<dc:creator>aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/#comment-194788</guid>
		<description>Try 120 with 25mph winds.  Still less comfortable is eight degrees cooler, but with the humidity doubled as moisture roles in off the gulf in the evening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Try 120 with 25mph winds.  Still less comfortable is eight degrees cooler, but with the humidity doubled as moisture roles in off the gulf in the evening.</p>
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		<title>By: mds</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-194787</link>
		<dc:creator>mds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 17:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/#comment-194787</guid>
		<description>Next he&#039;s going to say he&#039;s never heard of Jim Bridger.

&lt;i&gt;Summer=Linen trousers.&lt;/i&gt;

There might still be some elderly Texas oilmen that would wear a linen ensemble in summer, but they seem to be a vanishing breed.  A relentlessly-mocked vanishing breed, in the vein of &quot;It&#039;s hot out!  Why are you wearing a suit?&quot;

&lt;i&gt;Who wears jeans? Do you fancy yourself a cowboy?&lt;/i&gt;

Duh.  He&#039;s living in Tucson.  &lt;em&gt;Everyone&lt;/em&gt; living in Tucson fancies verself a cowhand.  Bolo ties were &lt;i&gt;de rigeur&lt;/i&gt; for gentlemen dressing up for church (twenty-five years ago, anyway).  And cowboy boots are far more prevalent than people who actually ride horses.

Anyway, I could see someone not being dressed for the trail if caught off-guard by an unplanned stop.  However, I&#039;m curious as to why Mr. Yglesias was wearing a Brooks Brothers suit jacket on a motorcar trip... especially with &lt;em&gt;that&lt;/em&gt; ensemble.  Kids these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Next he&#8217;s going to say he&#8217;s never heard of Jim Bridger.</p>

	<p><i>Summer=Linen trousers.</i></p>

	<p>There might still be some elderly Texas oilmen that would wear a linen ensemble in summer, but they seem to be a vanishing breed.  A relentlessly-mocked vanishing breed, in the vein of &#8220;It&#8217;s hot out!  Why are you wearing a suit?&#8221;</p>

	<p><i>Who wears jeans? Do you fancy yourself a cowboy?</i></p>

	<p>Duh.  He&#8217;s living in Tucson.  <em>Everyone</em> living in Tucson fancies verself a cowhand.  Bolo ties were <i>de rigeur</i> for gentlemen dressing up for church (twenty-five years ago, anyway).  And cowboy boots are far more prevalent than people who actually ride horses.</p>

	<p>Anyway, I could see someone not being dressed for the trail if caught off-guard by an unplanned stop.  However, I&#8217;m curious as to why Mr. Yglesias was wearing a Brooks Brothers suit jacket on a motorcar trip&#8230; especially with <em>that</em> ensemble.  Kids these days.</p>
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		<title>By: arthur</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-194776</link>
		<dc:creator>arthur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/#comment-194776</guid>
		<description>&quot;Kit Carson&quot; answers the critical question:  What got left out of junior high school history classses when Native Americans, African-Americans, women, and Presidents after Kennedy got put in?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Kit Carson&#8221; answers the critical question:  What got left out of junior high school history classses when Native Americans, African-Americans, women, and Presidents after Kennedy got put in?</p>
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		<title>By: CKR</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-194774</link>
		<dc:creator>CKR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 12:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/#comment-194774</guid>
		<description>You Easterners and city folks just keep on keeping on with your misconceptions.

We&#039;ll stay happy and beautiful here in New Mexico. Don&#039;t have enough water to support all of you anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You Easterners and city folks just keep on keeping on with your misconceptions.</p>

	<p>We&#8217;ll stay happy and beautiful here in New Mexico. Don&#8217;t have enough water to support all of you anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell Arben Fox</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-194772</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Arben Fox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 11:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/#comment-194772</guid>
		<description>Just to clarify...

1) I meant &quot;Brigham Young&#039;s &lt;i&gt;winter&lt;/i&gt; home,&quot; not his summer one. My apologies. Brother Brigham can be criticized for a great many things, but constructing a summer retreat from Salt Lake City in the heat of St. George, Utah, shouldn&#039;t be added to the list.

2) Cedar City has Southern Utah University, which is a (I think) surprisingly active place for both Utah and for being located in a small rural outpost in the midst of the southwestern desert. Their Shakespeare festival in the summer is great fun, and high quality too; I&#039;d put it on par with any regional festival anywhere in the U.S.

3) Yes, St. George, along with many other hundreds of square miles in the part of the country, was hit hard by the fallout from Nevada&#039;s nuclear testing. It took years of work before Utah&#039;s Republican representatives took up the fight in DC, and many years more before the relevant documentation was finally brought to light, which included a statement from some Defense Department flunkie in the 50s defening above ground testing by pointing out that any potential fallout would only affect a &quot;low-use segment of the population.&quot; Compensation finally came, but too late for many.

4) That MY had never heard of Kit Carson before leaves me flabbergast. Still, in fairness, it might be worth grabbing some blogger over at Red State, sending them to New York City, and see if they don&#039;t stare blankly at some historical marker for Robert Moses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Just to clarify&#8230;</p>

	<p>1) I meant &#8220;Brigham Young&#8217;s <i>winter</i> home,&#8221; not his summer one. My apologies. Brother Brigham can be criticized for a great many things, but constructing a summer retreat from Salt Lake City in the heat of St. George, Utah, shouldn&#8217;t be added to the list.</p>

	<p>2) Cedar City has Southern Utah University, which is a (I think) surprisingly active place for both Utah and for being located in a small rural outpost in the midst of the southwestern desert. Their Shakespeare festival in the summer is great fun, and high quality too; I&#8217;d put it on par with any regional festival anywhere in the U.S.</p>

	<p>3) Yes, St. George, along with many other hundreds of square miles in the part of the country, was hit hard by the fallout from Nevada&#8217;s nuclear testing. It took years of work before Utah&#8217;s Republican representatives took up the fight in DC, and many years more before the relevant documentation was finally brought to light, which included a statement from some Defense Department flunkie in the 50s defening above ground testing by pointing out that any potential fallout would only affect a &#8220;low-use segment of the population.&#8221; Compensation finally came, but too late for many.</p>

	<p>4) That MY had never heard of Kit Carson before leaves me flabbergast. Still, in fairness, it might be worth grabbing some blogger over at Red State, sending them to New York City, and see if they don&#8217;t stare blankly at some historical marker for Robert Moses.</p>
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		<title>By: agm</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-194764</link>
		<dc:creator>agm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 06:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/#comment-194764</guid>
		<description>Carson? Pffft. John Wesley Hardin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Carson? Pffft. John Wesley Hardin.</p>
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		<title>By: roger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/comment-page-1/#comment-194761</link>
		<dc:creator>roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 04:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/04/29/into-the-west/#comment-194761</guid>
		<description>ps - I should add, moving about the dirt stirred up the fallout, or so it is said. Hell, Hughes trucked irradiated dirt from the site into a sound stage in Hollywood. Didn&#039;t know no better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>ps &#8211; I should add, moving about the dirt stirred up the fallout, or so it is said. Hell, Hughes trucked irradiated dirt from the site into a sound stage in Hollywood. Didn&#8217;t know no better.</p>
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