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	<title>Comments on: In search of the Volk</title>
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	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: roy belmont</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/comment-page-1/#comment-195982</link>
		<dc:creator>roy belmont</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 02:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/#comment-195982</guid>
		<description>Authenticity is a way of enjoying a cigar, a way of elevating the experience that doesn&#039;t rely on things like actual knowledge, reverence for tradition, and soul. The fact that the cigar is Cuban, smuggled, costs 100$ per, as opposed to it&#039;s a fine smoke wherever it came from.
Mike Seeger, last time I saw him, was major-domo-ing for Elizabeth Cotton at a venue in Mill Valley CA. 
She of the &quot;backwards&quot; guitar, because she was left-handed and no one would set one up for her the &quot;right&quot; way, so she learned to thumb the treble strings and oddly catch the bass. 
But more important was what she brought with her out of the traditions she lived within, and all that that became, marketed or not, a classification for purposes of retailing, cataloging, etc and what we heard, all we got from what that was. 
What she was was her, all 110 pounds of it. Fierce old black lady singing like an angel, looking like Harriet Tubman, holding onto and reverberating those early song-things. 
Lots of those &quot;finds&quot; - Mississippi John Hurt, Bukka White, Clarence Ashley... - had their selves blown up and illuminated, but what&#039;s there when you look hard is something you can extrapolate back from toward the real thing. 
The assumption is blue notes were never played until they got played all the time, as a thing, the &quot;blues&quot;, and codified and kept. But that&#039;s crap. The changes were inevitable, built into the music, not local or owned. The musicians who played that strangely first were discarded and left no record that can be drawn on second-hand. Jazz in the Middle Ages, off to the side entirely. Players who were freaks of their time, and not carried forward by praise, though the music changed by them. 
Viz. Roscoe Mitchell&#039;s analog back when.
I heard him limn the rise and fall of every civilization we&#039;ve yet seen all the way back to the first grass-blade reed caught between the thumbs and palms of some long-gone ancestral figure. That kind of art began right along with language, and it hasn&#039;t stopped since.
The drive toward categorizing, holding the names rather than the sound, is secondary, and flirts too much with mercantile ambition. There&#039;s no break in the inheritance from the bird-imitating mad fool of the Pleistocene through Albert Ayler and on to now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Authenticity is a way of enjoying a cigar, a way of elevating the experience that doesn&#8217;t rely on things like actual knowledge, reverence for tradition, and soul. The fact that the cigar is Cuban, smuggled, costs 100$ per, as opposed to it&#8217;s a fine smoke wherever it came from.<br />
Mike Seeger, last time I saw him, was major-domo-ing for Elizabeth Cotton at a venue in Mill Valley CA.<br />
She of the &#8220;backwards&#8221; guitar, because she was left-handed and no one would set one up for her the &#8220;right&#8221; way, so she learned to thumb the treble strings and oddly catch the bass.<br />
But more important was what she brought with her out of the traditions she lived within, and all that that became, marketed or not, a classification for purposes of retailing, cataloging, etc and what we heard, all we got from what that was.<br />
What she was was her, all 110 pounds of it. Fierce old black lady singing like an angel, looking like Harriet Tubman, holding onto and reverberating those early song-things.<br />
Lots of those &#8220;finds&#8221; &#8211; Mississippi John Hurt, Bukka White, Clarence Ashley&#8230; &#8211; had their selves blown up and illuminated, but what&#8217;s there when you look hard is something you can extrapolate back from toward the real thing.<br />
The assumption is blue notes were never played until they got played all the time, as a thing, the &#8220;blues&#8221;, and codified and kept. But that&#8217;s crap. The changes were inevitable, built into the music, not local or owned. The musicians who played that strangely first were discarded and left no record that can be drawn on second-hand. Jazz in the Middle Ages, off to the side entirely. Players who were freaks of their time, and not carried forward by praise, though the music changed by them.<br />
Viz. Roscoe Mitchell&#8217;s analog back when.<br />
I heard him limn the rise and fall of every civilization we&#8217;ve yet seen all the way back to the first grass-blade reed caught between the thumbs and palms of some long-gone ancestral figure. That kind of art began right along with language, and it hasn&#8217;t stopped since.<br />
The drive toward categorizing, holding the names rather than the sound, is secondary, and flirts too much with mercantile ambition. There&#8217;s no break in the inheritance from the bird-imitating mad fool of the Pleistocene through Albert Ayler and on to now.</p>
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		<title>By: John Culpepper</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/comment-page-1/#comment-195953</link>
		<dc:creator>John Culpepper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 23:48:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/#comment-195953</guid>
		<description>I think that you can accurately say, however, without it being a &quot;ghastly racist assumption&quot; that (predominantly illiterate) bluesmen who worked as sharecroppers were closer than urban musicians to authentically African musical traditions -- the diddly bow/ slide guitar connection -- for example, along with complicated syncopations that captured the imaginations of so many fans. Or the association of the Devil (the voodoo god Legba -- master of the crossroads/ threshold of the spirit world) with the acquisition of superior skills.   

Athenticity is sometimes only a cigar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think that you can accurately say, however, without it being a &#8220;ghastly racist assumption&#8221; that (predominantly illiterate) bluesmen who worked as sharecroppers were closer than urban musicians to authentically African musical traditions&#8212;the diddly bow/ slide guitar connection&#8212;for example, along with complicated syncopations that captured the imaginations of so many fans. Or the association of the Devil (the voodoo god Legba&#8212;master of the crossroads/ threshold of the spirit world) with the acquisition of superior skills.</p>

	<p>Athenticity is sometimes only a cigar.</p>
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		<title>By: john culpepper</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/comment-page-1/#comment-195876</link>
		<dc:creator>john culpepper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 20:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/#comment-195876</guid>
		<description>It is not nitpicking. It is a major point and one not held just by me, but pointed ad nauseam out by such scholars as Wilgus and Peter Burke (not to mention C.J. Bearman, cited above), namely that folk culture -- until recently --was just about everybody -- not only &quot;illiterate sharecroppers.&quot; Peter Burke&#039;s book on Popular Culture is superb and tells you all you need to know.

In 1940 only 38 percent of Americans were high school graduates. In 1900 far fewer -- since public high schools were a novelty. Francis G. Child&#039;s Harvard graduating class in 1860 or so comprised 60 students. Emerson&#039;s far fewer Harvard at that time was a boarding school chiefly of teenagers.


* According to census figures The proportion of young adults (25-29) who were high school graduates rose from 38% to 86% between 1940 and 1985; the proportion of young adults who were college graduates rose form 6% in 1940 to 22% in 1985. 

That only illiterate sharecroppers qualify as folk is a recent (strawman) notion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It is not nitpicking. It is a major point and one not held just by me, but pointed ad nauseam out by such scholars as Wilgus and Peter Burke (not to mention C.J. Bearman, cited above), namely that folk culture&#8212;until recently&#8212;was just about everybody&#8212;not only &#8220;illiterate sharecroppers.&#8221; Peter Burke&#8217;s book on Popular Culture is superb and tells you all you need to know.</p>

	<p>In 1940 only 38 percent of Americans were high school graduates. In 1900 far fewer&#8212;since public high schools were a novelty. Francis G. Child&#8217;s Harvard graduating class in 1860 or so comprised 60 students. Emerson&#8217;s far fewer Harvard at that time was a boarding school chiefly of teenagers.</p>


	<ul>
		<li>According to census figures The proportion of young adults (25-29) who were high school graduates rose from 38% to 86% between 1940 and 1985; the proportion of young adults who were college graduates rose form 6% in 1940 to 22% in 1985.</li>
	</ul>

	<p>That only illiterate sharecroppers qualify as folk is a recent (strawman) notion.</p>
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		<title>By: s.e.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/comment-page-1/#comment-195865</link>
		<dc:creator>s.e.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 19:16:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/#comment-195865</guid>
		<description>You nitpick and quibble, both unnecessary since I agree with you in general. Homer comes from a &quot;folk&quot; tradition, as does the bible... of course. That was not my point. 

Vows of poverty by academics and priests have more in common with the vows of simplicity taken by the members of suburban garage bands than they do with the back porch guitar picking of illiterate sharecroppers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You nitpick and quibble, both unnecessary since I agree with you in general. Homer comes from a &#8220;folk&#8221; tradition, as does the bible&#8230; of course. That was not my point.</p>

	<p>Vows of poverty by academics and priests have more in common with the vows of simplicity taken by the members of suburban garage bands than they do with the back porch guitar picking of illiterate sharecroppers.</p>
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		<title>By: john culpepper</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/comment-page-1/#comment-195849</link>
		<dc:creator>john culpepper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 16:11:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/#comment-195849</guid>
		<description>There are all kinds of oral traditions and not all are simple by any means, on the contrary. The &quot;simplicity&quot; of folk song had to do with the exigency of communication across long distances in time and space -- and possibly across class boundaries, as well. I am not convinced that they were really that simple either. The Bible is written in a paratactic (oral) style as many have pointed out.

It makes more sense to ask which &quot;classes&quot; -- social groups -- maintained written traditions. In European history these were the book and printing trades and professionals -- teachers lawyers priests and the like -- not all of them wealthy -- in fact, a quite marginal group in many cases, -- you might call them the clerisy. Oral tradtions persisted among the vast majority in all social strata until quite late. For example, the Scots novelist James Hogg (b. 1770), friend of Shelley and author of Confessions of a Justified Sinner, had only six months of schooling (he taught himself to read at the age of fourteen).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hogg 

Mass education and cheap paper were phenomena of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There are all kinds of oral traditions and not all are simple by any means, on the contrary. The &#8220;simplicity&#8221; of folk song had to do with the exigency of communication across long distances in time and space&#8212;and possibly across class boundaries, as well. I am not convinced that they were really that simple either. The Bible is written in a paratactic (oral) style as many have pointed out.</p>

	<p>It makes more sense to ask which &#8220;classes&#8221;&#8212;social groups&#8212;maintained written traditions. In European history these were the book and printing trades and professionals&#8212;teachers lawyers priests and the like&#8212;not all of them wealthy&#8212;in fact, a quite marginal group in many cases,&#8212;you might call them the clerisy. Oral tradtions persisted among the vast majority in all social strata until quite late. For example, the Scots novelist James Hogg (b. 1770), friend of Shelley and author of Confessions of a Justified Sinner, had only six months of schooling (he taught himself to read at the age of fourteen).</p>

	<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hogg" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hogg</a></p>

	<p>Mass education and cheap paper were phenomena of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.</p>
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		<title>By: s.e.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/comment-page-1/#comment-195780</link>
		<dc:creator>s.e.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 00:53:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/#comment-195780</guid>
		<description>But which of the classes maintain a specifically oral tradition?
A preference for simplicity implies that it&#039;s an option, but the economy of expression in folk tunes is not the result of choice but of the need to work within limits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>But which of the classes maintain a specifically oral tradition?<br />
A preference for simplicity implies that it&#8217;s an option, but the economy of expression in folk tunes is not the result of choice but of the need to work within limits.</p>
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		<title>By: John Culpepper</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/comment-page-1/#comment-195710</link>
		<dc:creator>John Culpepper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 15:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/#comment-195710</guid>
		<description>I am a big fan of the Harry Smith anthology and owned and played the original LP&#039;s continously when they first came out. I deplore the way the Smithsonian re-packaged the collection.

Harry Smith&#039;s own notes acknowledged previous scholars. There was no competition or rivalry between him and them, rather there was agreement and cooperation. The triangulation was accomplished by others. In his introduction to the Smithsonian re-issue, Greil Marcus, following Harker, claimed that Harry Smith&#039;s collection had been forged in the fire of commercialism and its songs were therefore better than those collected by the Lomaxes, who were merely collectors of &quot;back porch music.&quot; 

1) Marcus was imputing to the Lomaxes a straw-man purism that they never possessed. (Since they had selected many of the songs and pointed Smith to many of the artists, obviously, whether or not performers had or hadn&#039;t recorded commercially was not an issue for them.) 2) Many of the artist in Smith&#039;s collection had made one or two records and then faded back into obscurity, since they had recorded in the 1920s when virtually anyone could go and make a record. So it is dubious that their skills had been forged in the fires of commerce. During the 1930s the commercial recording industry collapsed and was revived later in a much more centralized form. 

I would like to say that folk music -- or music of oral traditions is not the music of any one class. Rather it is distinguished by certain observable traits that appear to facilitate oral transmission -- a tendency to short, phrases joined by &quot;and&quot;, interchangeable &quot;floating verses&quot; drawn from a common stock, lack of subordinate clauses -- to name a few. In the melodies, lack of modulation, lack of a  &quot;bridge&quot;, whole tones (in US folk music), and so on. Because of this, &quot;Long Black Veil&quot;, for example, doesn&#039;t seem to qualify in many respects -- though in some other respects perhaps it does. These things have nothing to do with whether a song is good or bad -- However, it is an objective fact that a folksong can have a striking economy of expression perceptible to anyone who listens to it, that is why, among aficionados you frequently find a consensus of opinion. It is not a conspiracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I am a big fan of the Harry Smith anthology and owned and played the original LP&#8217;s continously when they first came out. I deplore the way the Smithsonian re-packaged the collection.</p>

	<p>Harry Smith&#8217;s own notes acknowledged previous scholars. There was no competition or rivalry between him and them, rather there was agreement and cooperation. The triangulation was accomplished by others. In his introduction to the Smithsonian re-issue, Greil Marcus, following Harker, claimed that Harry Smith&#8217;s collection had been forged in the fire of commercialism and its songs were therefore better than those collected by the Lomaxes, who were merely collectors of &#8220;back porch music.&#8221;</p>

	<p>1) Marcus was imputing to the Lomaxes a straw-man purism that they never possessed. (Since they had selected many of the songs and pointed Smith to many of the artists, obviously, whether or not performers had or hadn&#8217;t recorded commercially was not an issue for them.) 2) Many of the artist in Smith&#8217;s collection had made one or two records and then faded back into obscurity, since they had recorded in the 1920s when virtually anyone could go and make a record. So it is dubious that their skills had been forged in the fires of commerce. During the 1930s the commercial recording industry collapsed and was revived later in a much more centralized form.</p>

	<p>I would like to say that folk music&#8212;or music of oral traditions is not the music of any one class. Rather it is distinguished by certain observable traits that appear to facilitate oral transmission&#8212;a tendency to short, phrases joined by &#8220;and&#8221;, interchangeable &#8220;floating verses&#8221; drawn from a common stock, lack of subordinate clauses&#8212;to name a few. In the melodies, lack of modulation, lack of a  &#8220;bridge&#8221;, whole tones (in US folk music), and so on. Because of this, &#8220;Long Black Veil&#8221;, for example, doesn&#8217;t seem to qualify in many respects&#8212;though in some other respects perhaps it does. These things have nothing to do with whether a song is good or bad&#8212;However, it is an objective fact that a folksong can have a striking economy of expression perceptible to anyone who listens to it, that is why, among aficionados you frequently find a consensus of opinion. It is not a conspiracy.</p>
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		<title>By: peter ramus</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/comment-page-1/#comment-195705</link>
		<dc:creator>peter ramus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 15:09:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/#comment-195705</guid>
		<description>I apologize to John Culpepper for confusing him with my use of  the word &quot;scant&quot; in referring to Alan Lomax&#039;s mention of the Coahoma County Survey by Jones and Work of Fisk University. He reminds us that Alan Lomax mentioned the Fisk folklore team &lt;em&gt;18 times!!&lt;/em&gt; in his book &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1565847393/ref=olp_product_details/102-4696908-4153703?ie=UTF8&amp;seller=&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Land where  Blues was Born&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1565847393/ref=olp_product_details/102-4696908-4153703?ie=UTF8&amp;seller=&quot;&gt;
I must have looked surprised, for there was my research party, the team of my friends from Fisk University: Allen, the slim, lazy, brilliant young music professor, who hid his intensity behind a big loose grin; Eduardo, the keen, dapper Argentine sociology student. I thought both of them looked at me with a little hostility as I shook hands with the young English major from Columbia, an extremely handsome octoroon who had come along as an observer on the trip. And finally, regarding me from the corner of the booth with his sardonic but kindly gaze, was Lewis Jones, the man upon whom the success of this trip depended. Jones had a powerful build and the face of an Algerian corsair; but when he came South with his sociologist&#039;s notebook in his pocket, he was careful to move along as lazily as any plantation-conditioned black and his face, when interviewing a white overseer, wore an expression of rapt and humble consideration.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There&#039;s no way to overstate the importance of the Lomax family as American folklorists. As the New York Times blurb on the cover of &lt;em&gt;The Land Where The Blues Began&lt;/em&gt; says, &quot;Lomax&#039;s influence on the shape of popular music is incalculable.&quot; The controversy, such as it is, over credit for the Coahoma County work begun by the Fisk people and taken up by Alan may be just another example of the irritation that arises when the famous name gains credit for work done by research assistants, a situation that&#039;s not particularly unheard of in academia, complicated, of course, by the impression that the contributions of African American scholars are the ones being scanted here. 

(Puzzled by this, however:
&lt;blockquote&gt;
The editorial apparatus of the Smithsonian reissue of Harry Smith’s Folkways Anthology makes no mention whatever of Harry Smith’s connection to these scholars nor his indebtedness to them in his choice of material.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

(The reissue I own contains a reprint of Harry Smith&#039;s marvelous, peculiar &quot;handbook,&quot; in which he bothers to fully annotate every one of his selections with references to what must have seemed to him a comprehensive bibliography of scholarly works on the subject. So I&#039;m not sure why John Culpepper would make this claim)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I apologize to John Culpepper for confusing him with my use of  the word &#8220;scant&#8221; in referring to Alan Lomax&#8217;s mention of the Coahoma County Survey by Jones and Work of Fisk University. He reminds us that Alan Lomax mentioned the Fisk folklore team <em>18 times!!</em> in his book <a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1565847393/ref=olp_product_details/102-4696908-4153703?ie=UTF8&#038;seller=" rel="nofollow">The Land where  Blues was Born</a>.</p>

	<p><blockquote cite="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1565847393/ref=olp_product_details/102-4696908-4153703?ie=UTF8&#038;seller="><br />
I must have looked surprised, for there was my research party, the team of my friends from Fisk University: Allen, the slim, lazy, brilliant young music professor, who hid his intensity behind a big loose grin; Eduardo, the keen, dapper Argentine sociology student. I thought both of them looked at me with a little hostility as I shook hands with the young English major from Columbia, an extremely handsome octoroon who had come along as an observer on the trip. And finally, regarding me from the corner of the booth with his sardonic but kindly gaze, was Lewis Jones, the man upon whom the success of this trip depended. Jones had a powerful build and the face of an Algerian corsair; but when he came South with his sociologist&#8217;s notebook in his pocket, he was careful to move along as lazily as any plantation-conditioned black and his face, when interviewing a white overseer, wore an expression of rapt and humble consideration.<br />
</blockquote></p>

	<p>There&#8217;s no way to overstate the importance of the Lomax family as American folklorists. As the New York Times blurb on the cover of <em>The Land Where The Blues Began</em> says, &#8220;Lomax&#8217;s influence on the shape of popular music is incalculable.&#8221; The controversy, such as it is, over credit for the Coahoma County work begun by the Fisk people and taken up by Alan may be just another example of the irritation that arises when the famous name gains credit for work done by research assistants, a situation that&#8217;s not particularly unheard of in academia, complicated, of course, by the impression that the contributions of African American scholars are the ones being scanted here.</p>

	<p>(Puzzled by this, however:<br />
<blockquote><br />
The editorial apparatus of the Smithsonian reissue of Harry Smith&#8217;s Folkways Anthology makes no mention whatever of Harry Smith&#8217;s connection to these scholars nor his indebtedness to them in his choice of material.<br />
</blockquote></p>

	<p>(The reissue I own contains a reprint of Harry Smith&#8217;s marvelous, peculiar &#8220;handbook,&#8221; in which he bothers to fully annotate every one of his selections with references to what must have seemed to him a comprehensive bibliography of scholarly works on the subject. So I&#8217;m not sure why John Culpepper would make this claim)</p>
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		<title>By: Xboy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/comment-page-1/#comment-195674</link>
		<dc:creator>Xboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 05:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/#comment-195674</guid>
		<description>&quot;it&#039;s all folk music. I never heard no horses playin it.&quot;

Louis Armstrong</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;it&#8217;s all folk music. I never heard no horses playin it.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Louis Armstrong</p>
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		<title>By: John Culpepper</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/comment-page-1/#comment-195672</link>
		<dc:creator>John Culpepper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 01:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/#comment-195672</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s very interesting. You do encounter this Nietzschsian strain among other writer of that era -- Jack London, for example, comes to mind. There was a desire among reformers of both left and right to build &quot;the new man.&quot; 

Yeats, Eliot, D.H. Lawrence I would consider proto-fascist. Yet unlike them, when push came to shove, and even before, Wells (and even Kipling who had made the Swastika his emblem) repudiated Hitler&#039;s racism in the strongest possible terms. According to wikipedia Wells was at the top of Hitler&#039;s enemies list. 

Sharp was a reformer, a Christian socialist, if anything. If you go over his private writings and utterances with a fine-tooth comb you will find some &quot;gotcha&quot; epithets and use of terms that we now find objectionable and which were in common use at the time. But such comments hardly typify the the tenor of his life and his genial treatment of people of all walks of life, which were never that of a racist or a snob. Also, he accomplished a great deal as a meticulous collector of thousand and thousands of songs which would otherwise be lost.  

In the Victorian era when religious forces were stultifyingly powerful, it was necessary to present secular music and theater (even Shakespeare) as elevating and improving in order to make them acceptable at all, especially if designed for audiences of children. 

On the other hand, I believe that racist and antiSemitic stereotypes were certainly blatant and even ubiquitous in the commercial and vaudeville worlds that Harker et al wish to exalt as &quot;authentically&quot; working class. They conveniently overlook this fact.
 
I am certainly bothered to see people like William Morris, Jane Addams, Olive Campbell, or Eleanor Roosevelt, or Cecil Sharp (d. 1924) pilloried as reactionaries because they didn&#039;t idolize Leon Trotsky -- or weren&#039;t fans of the Rolling Stones avant la lettre -- or simply because they were born to privilege. This seems to me a form of racism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>That&#8217;s very interesting. You do encounter this Nietzschsian strain among other writer of that era&#8212;Jack London, for example, comes to mind. There was a desire among reformers of both left and right to build &#8220;the new man.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Yeats, Eliot, D.H. Lawrence I would consider proto-fascist. Yet unlike them, when push came to shove, and even before, Wells (and even Kipling who had made the Swastika his emblem) repudiated Hitler&#8217;s racism in the strongest possible terms. According to wikipedia Wells was at the top of Hitler&#8217;s enemies list.</p>

	<p>Sharp was a reformer, a Christian socialist, if anything. If you go over his private writings and utterances with a fine-tooth comb you will find some &#8220;gotcha&#8221; epithets and use of terms that we now find objectionable and which were in common use at the time. But such comments hardly typify the the tenor of his life and his genial treatment of people of all walks of life, which were never that of a racist or a snob. Also, he accomplished a great deal as a meticulous collector of thousand and thousands of songs which would otherwise be lost.</p>

	<p>In the Victorian era when religious forces were stultifyingly powerful, it was necessary to present secular music and theater (even Shakespeare) as elevating and improving in order to make them acceptable at all, especially if designed for audiences of children.</p>

	<p>On the other hand, I believe that racist and antiSemitic stereotypes were certainly blatant and even ubiquitous in the commercial and vaudeville worlds that Harker et al wish to exalt as &#8220;authentically&#8221; working class. They conveniently overlook this fact.</p>

	<p>I am certainly bothered to see people like William Morris, Jane Addams, Olive Campbell, or Eleanor Roosevelt, or Cecil Sharp (d. 1924) pilloried as reactionaries because they didn&#8217;t idolize Leon Trotsky&#8212;or weren&#8217;t fans of the Rolling Stones avant la lettre&#8212;or simply because they were born to privilege. This seems to me a form of racism.</p>
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		<title>By: seth edenbaum</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/comment-page-1/#comment-195667</link>
		<dc:creator>seth edenbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 23:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/#comment-195667</guid>
		<description>I wasn&#039;t trying to cause trouble, and I don&#039;t know enough to argue about Cecil Sharp, but the ins and outs of left and right in intellectual and avant-garde 90 years ago are as well documented as the borders between them are fuzzy, and this is true in Britain as much as anywhere.  I going to use Isadora Duncan&#039;s offer/suggestiion to George Bernard Shaw but in searching I found this from H.G Wells:&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;The new ethics will hold life to be a privilege and a responsibility, not a sort of night refuge for base spirits out of the void; and the alternative in right conduct between living fully, beautifully and efficiently will be to die. For a multitude of contemptible and silly creatures, fear-driven and helpless and useless, unhappy or hatefully happy in the midst of squalid dishonour, feeble, ugly, inefficient, born of unrestrained lusts, and increasing and multiplying through sheer incontinence and stupidity, the men of the New Republic will have little pity and less benevolence.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Never trust an aesthete.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I wasn&#8217;t trying to cause trouble, and I don&#8217;t know enough to argue about Cecil Sharp, but the ins and outs of left and right in intellectual and avant-garde 90 years ago are as well documented as the borders between them are fuzzy, and this is true in Britain as much as anywhere.  I going to use Isadora Duncan&#8217;s offer/suggestiion to George Bernard Shaw but in searching I found this from H.G Wells:<blockquote>&#8220;The new ethics will hold life to be a privilege and a responsibility, not a sort of night refuge for base spirits out of the void; and the alternative in right conduct between living fully, beautifully and efficiently will be to die. For a multitude of contemptible and silly creatures, fear-driven and helpless and useless, unhappy or hatefully happy in the midst of squalid dishonour, feeble, ugly, inefficient, born of unrestrained lusts, and increasing and multiplying through sheer incontinence and stupidity, the men of the New Republic will have little pity and less benevolence.&#8221;</blockquote><br />
Never trust an aesthete.</p>
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		<title>By: John Culpepper</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/comment-page-1/#comment-195657</link>
		<dc:creator>John Culpepper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 18:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/#comment-195657</guid>
		<description>It is possible to be progressive and proto-fascist, maybe, but calling someone that doesn&#039;t make it so. To be believed something more than namecalling is needed, namely evidence -- not cherry picked either. For example, I would like to know some of the names of the &quot;quite a few&quot; that Seth Edelbaum knows about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It is possible to be progressive and proto-fascist, maybe, but calling someone that doesn&#8217;t make it so. To be believed something more than namecalling is needed, namely evidence&#8212;not cherry picked either. For example, I would like to know some of the names of the &#8220;quite a few&#8221; that Seth Edelbaum knows about.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: seth edenbaum</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/comment-page-1/#comment-195656</link>
		<dc:creator>seth edenbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 17:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/#comment-195656</guid>
		<description>On a related note we could consider when the religious the European makers of illuminated manuscrips became more than folk artists. Giotto was until recently referred to as a &quot;primative.&quot;

Also the question of whether Rap is a the most (only) recent folk/pop hybrid, &quot;folk&quot; in the sense of an indigenous form brought into the mainstream that still maintains direct and &lt;i&gt;reciprocal&lt;/i&gt; connections to it&#039;s place of origin.

I&#039;ll second C. Bertram&#039;s thanks to John Culpepper.  However, it&#039;s quite possible to be both a progressive and a protofascist. There were a few of them around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>On a related note we could consider when the religious the European makers of illuminated manuscrips became more than folk artists. Giotto was until recently referred to as a &#8220;primative.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Also the question of whether Rap is a the most (only) recent folk/pop hybrid, &#8220;folk&#8221; in the sense of an indigenous form brought into the mainstream that still maintains direct and <i>reciprocal</i> connections to it&#8217;s place of origin.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;ll second C. Bertram&#8217;s thanks to John Culpepper.  However, it&#8217;s quite possible to be both a progressive and a protofascist. There were a few of them around.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chris Bertram</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/comment-page-1/#comment-195650</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Bertram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 15:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/#comment-195650</guid>
		<description>John Culpepper - just a note to say that I&#039;ve learnt a good deal from your comments and from the links you&#039;ve given us. Many thanks for taking the time and trouble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John Culpepper &#8211; just a note to say that I&#8217;ve learnt a good deal from your comments and from the links you&#8217;ve given us. Many thanks for taking the time and trouble.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John Culpepper</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/comment-page-1/#comment-195648</link>
		<dc:creator>John Culpepper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 15:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/05/in-search-of-the-volk/#comment-195648</guid>
		<description>History is the enemy of BS artists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>History is the enemy of BS artists.</p>
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