<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Well There Goes the Weekend</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 27 May 2012 00:43:58 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Glorious Godfrey</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/comment-page-2/#comment-196534</link>
		<dc:creator>Glorious Godfrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 09:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/#comment-196534</guid>
		<description>So, Daveh at #6, I think that a good short characterization of the Eustonites would be:

 - It was going to be &quot;the winner takes all&quot; in the wake of Iraq. We fucked up but, by God, are we sticking to our guns.

26 words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>So, Daveh at #6, I think that a good short characterization of the Eustonites would be:</p>
 &#8211; It was going to be &#8220;the winner takes all&#8221; in the wake of Iraq. We fucked up but, by God, are we sticking to our guns.

	<p>26 words.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Glorious Godfrey</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/comment-page-2/#comment-196533</link>
		<dc:creator>Glorious Godfrey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 09:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/#comment-196533</guid>
		<description>The Decents have been insulting everybody&#039;s intelligence about the manifold motivations for the war from the beginning. And yet their attitude and that of the pro-war camp in general have been all too revealing.

That is, &lt;i&gt; vae victis &lt;/i&gt; has always been the motto.

Bill Kristol and the other neocons have often bragged about their ability to &quot;move the goalposts&quot; of acceptable political discourse. The Iraq war was meant to bring about an epochal shift, in America and beyond.

The Decents knew, and intended to position themselves as the only legitimate leftist intellectuals on the new playing field. Even the presence of a few token anti-war Eustonites is to be seen in the light of this.

In the face of the illegality of this war of choice, of the disaster it has led to, are people going to stop breathing down their necks, just for the sake of not being &quot;smug&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The Decents have been insulting everybody&#8217;s intelligence about the manifold motivations for the war from the beginning. And yet their attitude and that of the pro-war camp in general have been all too revealing.</p>

	<p>That is, <i> vae victis </i> has always been the motto.</p>

	<p>Bill Kristol and the other neocons have often bragged about their ability to &#8220;move the goalposts&#8221; of acceptable political discourse. The Iraq war was meant to bring about an epochal shift, in America and beyond.</p>

	<p>The Decents knew, and intended to position themselves as the only legitimate leftist intellectuals on the new playing field. Even the presence of a few token anti-war Eustonites is to be seen in the light of this.</p>

	<p>In the face of the illegality of this war of choice, of the disaster it has led to, are people going to stop breathing down their necks, just for the sake of not being &#8220;smug&#8221;?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/comment-page-2/#comment-196473</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 15:25:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/#comment-196473</guid>
		<description>Does it mean that only those who &quot;calibrated their views&quot; were right and those who &quot;would have said so no matter what&quot; were sorta like a broken clock being right twice a day? 

I haven&#039;t been watching dsquared specifically, but I got the impression that he evolved from &quot;not this war now&quot; to &quot;no wars of aggression ever&quot;, or IOW, from &quot;calibrated views&quot; to &quot;no matter what&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Does it mean that only those who &#8220;calibrated their views&#8221; were right and those who &#8220;would have said so no matter what&#8221; were sorta like a broken clock being right twice a day?</p>

	<p>I haven&#8217;t been watching dsquared specifically, but I got the impression that he evolved from &#8220;not this war now&#8221; to &#8220;no wars of aggression ever&#8221;, or <span class="caps">IOW</span>, from &#8220;calibrated views&#8221; to &#8220;no matter what&#8221;.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: harry b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/comment-page-2/#comment-196472</link>
		<dc:creator>harry b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 14:44:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/#comment-196472</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Isn’t smugness plainly rather more common among the ‘we knew we were right all along’ crowd?&lt;/i&gt;

Well, yes, probably. The mores around these things are difficult. The Iraq war was obviously a very bad idea when it started, and it was obviously going to go wrong. Some of those who said so would have said so no matter what. Others actually calibrated their views to something close to the reality. They have been proved right, and continue to be proved right. I suggest, for example, that you read dsquared&#039;s writings in the lead up to and beginning of the war. Continuing to be right, as things go along, and continuing to get flack for it, one must be tempted to point backwards and say, &quot;Ah, but look, I was right last week, and the week before, and...all the way going back to the beginning and, well, you were wrong&quot;. This is bound to sound smug. Whereas &quot;Look, I know I&#039;ve been wrong, spectacularly so, over and over again about this thing, but now I really am right&quot; is bound to sound silly. If you want to condemn, say, dsquared, for being smug, well, despite roger&#039;s absolutely proper condemnation of smugness in this situation, he must surely be a little bit smug, but there but for the grace of God and but for my inability to analyse the situation with judgment and accuracy, go I, and you too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Isn&#8217;t smugness plainly rather more common among the &#8216;we knew we were right all along&#8217; crowd?</i></p>

	<p>Well, yes, probably. The mores around these things are difficult. The Iraq war was obviously a very bad idea when it started, and it was obviously going to go wrong. Some of those who said so would have said so no matter what. Others actually calibrated their views to something close to the reality. They have been proved right, and continue to be proved right. I suggest, for example, that you read dsquared&#8217;s writings in the lead up to and beginning of the war. Continuing to be right, as things go along, and continuing to get flack for it, one must be tempted to point backwards and say, &#8220;Ah, but look, I was right last week, and the week before, and&#8230;all the way going back to the beginning and, well, you were wrong&#8221;. This is bound to sound smug. Whereas &#8220;Look, I know I&#8217;ve been wrong, spectacularly so, over and over again about this thing, but now I really am right&#8221; is bound to sound silly. If you want to condemn, say, dsquared, for being smug, well, despite roger&#8217;s absolutely proper condemnation of smugness in this situation, he must surely be a little bit smug, but there but for the grace of God and but for my inability to analyse the situation with judgment and accuracy, go I, and you too.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Conor Foley</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/comment-page-2/#comment-196466</link>
		<dc:creator>Conor Foley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 13:21:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/#comment-196466</guid>
		<description>Euston is not alone in blurring the distinction between liberal and humanitarian interventions.  Virtually all of the Guardian&#039;s in-house columnists do it as well.  I think that a lot of people are genuinely confused.

What is uniquely destructive about Euston is that its supporters simultaneously claim to support the cause of human rights and humanitarianism while attacking its &#039;actual existing&#039; institutions.  

On the one hand Amnesty International, the UN and humanitarian agencies are maligned  as useless&#039;, &#039;biased&#039;, &#039;accomplices to mass murder&#039; etc. but, on the other, the Eustonites arguments for humanitarian interventions, in certain circumstances, discredit genuine humanitarians by associating these with the cause of liberal imperialism. 

It is a modern day version of Trotskyist entryism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Euston is not alone in blurring the distinction between liberal and humanitarian interventions.  Virtually all of the Guardian&#8217;s in-house columnists do it as well.  I think that a lot of people are genuinely confused.</p>

	<p>What is uniquely destructive about Euston is that its supporters simultaneously claim to support the cause of human rights and humanitarianism while attacking its &#8216;actual existing&#8217; institutions.</p>

	<p>On the one hand Amnesty International, the UN and humanitarian agencies are maligned  as useless&#8217;, &#8216;biased&#8217;, &#8216;accomplices to mass murder&#8217; etc. but, on the other, the Eustonites arguments for humanitarian interventions, in certain circumstances, discredit genuine humanitarians by associating these with the cause of liberal imperialism.</p>

	<p>It is a modern day version of Trotskyist entryism.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hidari</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/comment-page-2/#comment-196460</link>
		<dc:creator>Hidari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 11:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/#comment-196460</guid>
		<description>According to Lenin&#039;s Tomb, Nick Cohen isn&#039;t the Messiah after all....&lt;i&gt;he&#039;s a very naughty boy&lt;/i&gt;.

&#039;Nich Cohen, lately responsible for a lengthy published rant deriding the left for its opposition to the war in Iraq, has been given a dressing down by his mother for being politically incorrect. Well, it was more than that actually. She gave him a slapping.

    Mum Maggie was seriously upset at being called a Stalinist in the opening pages of nasty Nick&#039;s book. Not least because, when the Cohen family last gathered together to enjoy a jolly Christmas, cowardly Nick failed to mention the reference, or even the book.

    Maggie, a lifelong leftie, could not contain her feelings when she next saw her son. Although diminuitive to Nick&#039;s beanstalk proportions, she let him have one round the chops. &quot;In all the years they were growing up I never hit the children,&quot; Maggie recently told friends. &quot;Now I have to go and do it when he is grown up.&quot;&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>According to Lenin&#8217;s Tomb, Nick Cohen isn&#8217;t the Messiah after all&#8230;.<i>he&#8217;s a very naughty boy</i>.</p>

	<p>&#8216;Nich Cohen, lately responsible for a lengthy published rant deriding the left for its opposition to the war in Iraq, has been given a dressing down by his mother for being politically incorrect. Well, it was more than that actually. She gave him a slapping.</p>

	<p>Mum Maggie was seriously upset at being called a Stalinist in the opening pages of nasty Nick&#8217;s book. Not least because, when the Cohen family last gathered together to enjoy a jolly Christmas, cowardly Nick failed to mention the reference, or even the book.</p>

	<p>Maggie, a lifelong leftie, could not contain her feelings when she next saw her son. Although diminuitive to Nick&#8217;s beanstalk proportions, she let him have one round the chops. &#8220;In all the years they were growing up I never hit the children,&#8221; Maggie recently told friends. &#8220;Now I have to go and do it when he is grown up.&#8221;&#8217;</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blog</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/comment-page-2/#comment-196438</link>
		<dc:creator>blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 04:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/#comment-196438</guid>
		<description>Apparently Ohenry thinks that crocodile tears of bleeding heart abhorrence is the same as applying the same intemperate standards that they applied to Milosevic. If they had not applied that intemperate judgement, they would not now be forced to apply the same intemperate standard to their own. They made their own bed and now they refuse to lie in it. Ohenry finds this commendable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Apparently Ohenry thinks that crocodile tears of bleeding heart abhorrence is the same as applying the same intemperate standards that they applied to Milosevic. If they had not applied that intemperate judgement, they would not now be forced to apply the same intemperate standard to their own. They made their own bed and now they refuse to lie in it. Ohenry finds this commendable.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: roger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-196437</link>
		<dc:creator>roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 04:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/#comment-196437</guid>
		<description>Smugness isn&#039;t the response to being right - rage is. Right means shit - it hasn&#039;t yet moved a single U.S. soldier out of Iraq, it hasn&#039;t produced a single peace conference between sides in Iraq, it hasn&#039;t prevented Cheney and Co. from trying to steamroll the theft of Iraqi oil fields in the new &quot;reform&quot; law, it hasn&#039;t prevented the massive flight of Iraqis across borders into places like Syria which, unlike the &quot;humanitarian intervenors&quot; who never saw a crowd a boat people they didn&#039;t haul back to where the came from, have welcomed almost a million refugees, it hasn&#039;t prevented the U.S. administration from making it clear that it would dearly like to expand the war into Iran, it hasn&#039;t prevented the Prime Minister of England from making a fatuous tour of the Gulf autocracies, including Saudi Arabia(!) talking up a &quot;democratic&quot; coalition against Iran, it hasn&#039;t prevented the U.S. media from presenting the war as one in which the U.S. is fighting for democracy itself, or blandly ignoring the contradiction when the only elected body in Iraq, the parliament, rustles up a majority to support a timetable of American withdrawal - being right has basically meant making fun of the monkey see crowd of the Euston Manifesto, which isn&#039;t even a consolation prize, because they are such eminent passive aggressive, warmongering idiots, and the film of themselves fumbling around as though they were going to spread democracy among the poor natives of some benighted land is either screamingly funny or an all too poignant satire on the mangled bodies in the Baghdad streets. Being right is so far from being smug that one can only wake up every day with a blacker and blacker view of the U.S.A., a country that has devolved from democracy to plutocracy to rouge nation before all of our eyes, seemingly determined to race China to the goalposts on all the important things: number of people in prison, number of systematic violations of human rights, number of lies uttered in the course of the average day by the putzes who lead it, number of well paid media personalities willing to blow smoke up their own assholes, if not anybody else&#039;s, about what a wonderful country it is as they oil and butter another massacre of civilians in Afghanistan, or is it Anbar province this time? This benign hegemon is a joke. And of course the U.S. has kept Al Qaeda on tap in Pakistan so that we can continue our long long long war, cause surely they&#039;ve had enough time and peace over there in Waziristan to come up with something good, something worth keeping that 500 billion a year going to the Department of Perpetual War, unless of course - they&#039;ve decided they couldn&#039;t top what the U.S. is doing itself. Don&#039;t mess with success could be their motto.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Smugness isn&#8217;t the response to being right &#8211; rage is. Right means shit &#8211; it hasn&#8217;t yet moved a single U.S. soldier out of Iraq, it hasn&#8217;t produced a single peace conference between sides in Iraq, it hasn&#8217;t prevented Cheney and Co. from trying to steamroll the theft of Iraqi oil fields in the new &#8220;reform&#8221; law, it hasn&#8217;t prevented the massive flight of Iraqis across borders into places like Syria which, unlike the &#8220;humanitarian intervenors&#8221; who never saw a crowd a boat people they didn&#8217;t haul back to where the came from, have welcomed almost a million refugees, it hasn&#8217;t prevented the U.S. administration from making it clear that it would dearly like to expand the war into Iran, it hasn&#8217;t prevented the Prime Minister of England from making a fatuous tour of the Gulf autocracies, including Saudi Arabia(!) talking up a &#8220;democratic&#8221; coalition against Iran, it hasn&#8217;t prevented the U.S. media from presenting the war as one in which the U.S. is fighting for democracy itself, or blandly ignoring the contradiction when the only elected body in Iraq, the parliament, rustles up a majority to support a timetable of American withdrawal &#8211; being right has basically meant making fun of the monkey see crowd of the Euston Manifesto, which isn&#8217;t even a consolation prize, because they are such eminent passive aggressive, warmongering idiots, and the film of themselves fumbling around as though they were going to spread democracy among the poor natives of some benighted land is either screamingly funny or an all too poignant satire on the mangled bodies in the Baghdad streets. Being right is so far from being smug that one can only wake up every day with a blacker and blacker view of the U.S.A., a country that has devolved from democracy to plutocracy to rouge nation before all of our eyes, seemingly determined to race China to the goalposts on all the important things: number of people in prison, number of systematic violations of human rights, number of lies uttered in the course of the average day by the putzes who lead it, number of well paid media personalities willing to blow smoke up their own assholes, if not anybody else&#8217;s, about what a wonderful country it is as they oil and butter another massacre of civilians in Afghanistan, or is it Anbar province this time? This benign hegemon is a joke. And of course the U.S. has kept Al Qaeda on tap in Pakistan so that we can continue our long long long war, cause surely they&#8217;ve had enough time and peace over there in Waziristan to come up with something good, something worth keeping that 500 billion a year going to the Department of Perpetual War, unless of course &#8211; they&#8217;ve decided they couldn&#8217;t top what the U.S. is doing itself. Don&#8217;t mess with success could be their motto.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blog</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-196436</link>
		<dc:creator>blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 04:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/#comment-196436</guid>
		<description>They abhored the violence in the former Yugoslavia as well and then imprisoned Milosevic for it. Why are they now excusing and apologizing for far worse crimes in Iraq?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>They abhored the violence in the former Yugoslavia as well and then imprisoned Milosevic for it. Why are they now excusing and apologizing for far worse crimes in Iraq?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blog</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-196434</link>
		<dc:creator>blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 04:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/#comment-196434</guid>
		<description>If the Eustonites would just admit that self-interest is at the bottom of all foreign policy, no one would have any problem with them. An honest debate could commence. We could determine exactly whose self-interest was at stake and who would be dying for the sake of those interests. But no. They have to dress up their self-interest in all kinds of fancy clothes, obscuring the ugliness beneath and making a mockery of the debate. As one astute British commentator said after Blair&#039;s last speech-Sick bowls, on the quick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If the Eustonites would just admit that self-interest is at the bottom of all foreign policy, no one would have any problem with them. An honest debate could commence. We could determine exactly whose self-interest was at stake and who would be dying for the sake of those interests. But no. They have to dress up their self-interest in all kinds of fancy clothes, obscuring the ugliness beneath and making a mockery of the debate. As one astute British commentator said after Blair&#8217;s last speech-Sick bowls, on the quick.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: OHenry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-196432</link>
		<dc:creator>OHenry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 04:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/#comment-196432</guid>
		<description>As it happens, I spoke at an anti-war teach-in in 2002 but would dearly have liked to be proven wrong in my reasons for opposing the Iraq intervention (wrong war, wrong time, especially wrong actors). As did, apparently, some of the Euston Manifesto authors. But isn&#039;t it interesting how readily (reflexively?) abhoring the violence in Iraq --by ALL parties-- is regarded as &quot;apologizing for people who have commited far worse actions than the people they themselves have previously judged to be criminals&quot;? Tlön anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As it happens, I spoke at an anti-war teach-in in 2002 but would dearly have liked to be proven wrong in my reasons for opposing the Iraq intervention (wrong war, wrong time, especially wrong actors). As did, apparently, some of the Euston Manifesto authors. But isn&#8217;t it interesting how readily (reflexively?) abhoring the violence in Iraq&#8212;by <span class="caps">ALL</span> parties&#8212;is regarded as &#8220;apologizing for people who have commited far worse actions than the people they themselves have previously judged to be criminals&#8221;? Tl&#246;n anyone?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blog</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-196430</link>
		<dc:creator>blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 03:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/#comment-196430</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s ask the Eustonites this. Would they have applied their bleeding heart humanitarianism to the Shah of Iran or Pinochet? Of course not. They are vile hypocrites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Let&#8217;s ask the Eustonites this. Would they have applied their bleeding heart humanitarianism to the Shah of Iran or Pinochet? Of course not. They are vile hypocrites.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Michael Bérubé</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-196429</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Bérubé</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 03:13:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/#comment-196429</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Isn’t smugness plainly rather more common among the ‘we knew we were right all along’ crowd? &lt;/i&gt;

Sometimes, Luis.  There&#039;s no monopoly on smugness in all this mess.  For the record, I got a couple of things seriously wrong about five years ago, not that anyone&#039;s asked.  As of May 2002, I didn&#039;t think Hitchens was going to go so far as to support war in Iraq, let alone degenerate to the point at which he would call the Dixie Chicks &quot;fucking fat slags&quot; a year later; later that year, I mistakenly identified Michael Walzer as a member of the prowar left, and I regret that to this day, because Walzer is, of all the Euston signatories, the one I respect most (he was also remarkably gracious in informing me, in the fall of 2002, that he considered the war foolish and unnecessary); and most of all, I would never have believed on May 13, 2002 that on May 13, 2007, the &lt;i&gt;New York Times&lt;/i&gt;&#039; lead headline would be &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/13/world/asia/13AFGHAN.html?ref=world&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Civilian Deaths Undermine Allies&#039; War on Taliban&quot;&lt;/a&gt;.  I was kinda hoping that the &quot;allies&quot; would understand the importance of not losing Afghanistan to the Taliban all over again.  But apparently they had other ideas.

I took my little swipe at Ignatieff above, though, because I think the people who applied the idea of &quot;humanitarian intervention&quot; to this pre-emptive war managed to trash the principle they were championing.  (Likewise Jean Bethke Elshtain, who argued that Iraq was a &quot;just&quot; war.  Though Walzer, who wrote the book on the subject, knew better.)  The fact that the Eustonites now have themselves a series of YouTube episodes on &quot;intervention after Iraq&quot; is a little galling -- though, with a tip of the hat to Daniel in 31 (with whom I disagree on Kosovo and Budweiser both), not quite so galling as that line about &quot;picking over the rubble.&quot;  Especially since the rubble is still bouncing as we speak.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Isn&#8217;t smugness plainly rather more common among the &#8216;we knew we were right all along&#8217; crowd? </i></p>

	<p>Sometimes, Luis.  There&#8217;s no monopoly on smugness in all this mess.  For the record, I got a couple of things seriously wrong about five years ago, not that anyone&#8217;s asked.  As of May 2002, I didn&#8217;t think Hitchens was going to go so far as to support war in Iraq, let alone degenerate to the point at which he would call the Dixie Chicks &#8220;fucking fat slags&#8221; a year later; later that year, I mistakenly identified Michael Walzer as a member of the prowar left, and I regret that to this day, because Walzer is, of all the Euston signatories, the one I respect most (he was also remarkably gracious in informing me, in the fall of 2002, that he considered the war foolish and unnecessary); and most of all, I would never have believed on May 13, 2002 that on May 13, 2007, the <i>New York Times</i>&#8217; lead headline would be <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/13/world/asia/13AFGHAN.html?ref=world" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Civilian Deaths Undermine Allies&#8217; War on Taliban&#8221;</a>.  I was kinda hoping that the &#8220;allies&#8221; would understand the importance of not losing Afghanistan to the Taliban all over again.  But apparently they had other ideas.</p>

	<p>I took my little swipe at Ignatieff above, though, because I think the people who applied the idea of &#8220;humanitarian intervention&#8221; to this pre-emptive war managed to trash the principle they were championing.  (Likewise Jean Bethke Elshtain, who argued that Iraq was a &#8220;just&#8221; war.  Though Walzer, who wrote the book on the subject, knew better.)  The fact that the Eustonites now have themselves a series of YouTube episodes on &#8220;intervention after Iraq&#8221; is a little galling&#8212;though, with a tip of the hat to Daniel in 31 (with whom I disagree on Kosovo and Budweiser both), not quite so galling as that line about &#8220;picking over the rubble.&#8221;  Especially since the rubble is still bouncing as we speak.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: roger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-196426</link>
		<dc:creator>roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 02:12:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/#comment-196426</guid>
		<description>If Ohenry is deciding that he supports a foreign policy involving moving American troops into countries pre-emptively because of a string of comments on a blog that he doesn&#039;t like, then I imagine foreign policy is not his forte. Deciding  whether the Britney or Christina lunch box is cuter, that&#039;s his forte. Go for Christina, Ohenry. Be bold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If Ohenry is deciding that he supports a foreign policy involving moving American troops into countries pre-emptively because of a string of comments on a blog that he doesn&#8217;t like, then I imagine foreign policy is not his forte. Deciding  whether the Britney or Christina lunch box is cuter, that&#8217;s his forte. Go for Christina, Ohenry. Be bold.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blog</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/comment-page-1/#comment-196424</link>
		<dc:creator>blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 02:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/11/well-there-goes-the-weekend/#comment-196424</guid>
		<description>Here is the structure of Ohenry&#039;s fallacy:

The opposition is pissed off;

Ergo I am right.

That&#039;s a nifty logical argument, isn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Here is the structure of Ohenry&#8217;s fallacy:</p>

	<p>The opposition is pissed off;</p>

	<p>Ergo I am right.</p>

	<p>That&#8217;s a nifty logical argument, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

