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	<title>Comments on: The threat of community reaction</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-198422</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 03:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/#comment-198422</guid>
		<description>So, people like Hirsi Ali are too inflammatory in a discussion about Hirsi Ali and people like her?

I know the opening post said that you found Reynold&#039;s argument not so compelling, but man, you really meant it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>So, people like Hirsi Ali are too inflammatory in a discussion about Hirsi Ali and people like her?</p>

	<p>I know the opening post said that you found Reynold&#8217;s argument not so compelling, but man, you really meant it.</p>
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		<title>By: stostosto</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-198365</link>
		<dc:creator>stostosto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 21:34:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/#comment-198365</guid>
		<description>By the way, the site is not &quot;celebrating&quot; ex-Muslims. It&#039;s a site made by and representing Muslims who have decided to publicly disavow their religion. They explain there reasons therein, and there is nothing &quot;inflaming&quot; or &quot;offending&quot; in that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>By the way, the site is not &#8220;celebrating&#8221; ex-Muslims. It&#8217;s a site made by and representing Muslims who have decided to publicly disavow their religion. They explain there reasons therein, and there is nothing &#8220;inflaming&#8221; or &#8220;offending&#8221; in that.</p>
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		<title>By: stostosto</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-198363</link>
		<dc:creator>stostosto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 21:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/#comment-198363</guid>
		<description>What is wrong with you???? 

&quot;appeared likely, and perhaps calculated, to inflame and offend&quot;

Why? Why? Why? Are you even serious, man? 

I am speechless. 

I tell you, you are inflaming and offending -- me. And no, don&#039;t worry, I shall not bother your lilly-white, overwrought sensibilities again. 

Let me just say that the fact that European Muslims in Germany and Scandinavia are forming an association of public religion-leavers is an obviously interesting development. 

And, you know, if I could link &quot;under similar circumstances&quot; to a site for &quot;ex-Jews&quot;, why,  yes, that would be obviously interesting as well.

Bleah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>What is wrong with you????</p>

	<p>&#8220;appeared likely, and perhaps calculated, to inflame and offend&#8221;</p>

	<p>Why? Why? Why? Are you even serious, man?</p>

	<p>I am speechless.</p>

	<p>I tell you, you are inflaming and offending&#8212;me. And no, don&#8217;t worry, I shall not bother your lilly-white, overwrought sensibilities again.</p>

	<p>Let me just say that the fact that European Muslims in Germany and Scandinavia are forming an association of public religion-leavers is an obviously interesting development.</p>

	<p>And, you know, if I could link &#8220;under similar circumstances&#8221; to a site for &#8220;ex-Jews&#8221;, why,  yes, that would be obviously interesting as well.</p>

	<p>Bleah.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-198356</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 20:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/#comment-198356</guid>
		<description>On the grounds that it provided no worthwhile information and appeared likely, and perhaps calculated, to inflame and offend. Had someone linked under similar circumstances to a site celebrating &quot;ex Jews&quot; I&#039;d have removed with equal alacrity. I&#039;m less interested in maintaining free speech here than a zone for good conversation, according to my doubtless idiosyncratic standards for good conversation. If this is a problem, you&#039;re entitled to ask for a refund.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>On the grounds that it provided no worthwhile information and appeared likely, and perhaps calculated, to inflame and offend. Had someone linked under similar circumstances to a site celebrating &#8220;ex Jews&#8221; I&#8217;d have removed with equal alacrity. I&#8217;m less interested in maintaining free speech here than a zone for good conversation, according to my doubtless idiosyncratic standards for good conversation. If this is a problem, you&#8217;re entitled to ask for a refund.</p>
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		<title>By: stostosto</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-198332</link>
		<dc:creator>stostosto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 19:07:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/#comment-198332</guid>
		<description>Why was the link removed?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Why was the link removed?</p>
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		<title>By: stostosto</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-198318</link>
		<dc:creator>stostosto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 17:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/#comment-198318</guid>
		<description>[link removed by moderator]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[link removed by moderator]</p>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-198317</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 17:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/#comment-198317</guid>
		<description>Less the UCD economics dept than that I was hitting up against the limits of my mathematical reasoning powers - I had enough to get a decent mark in my BA finals, but I could see that the writing was on the wall for graduate school - I simply wasn&#039;t smart enough in the right ways to go on in economics. This is the topic of another post in its own right, which I will write - and I am about to weigh on on the Chris Hayes article in a post (short version - the heterodox economists who I like tend to be the ones who combine game theory etc with a trenchantly left wing eye for power relations).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Less the <span class="caps">UCD</span> economics dept than that I was hitting up against the limits of my mathematical reasoning powers &#8211; I had enough to get a decent mark in my BA finals, but I could see that the writing was on the wall for graduate school &#8211; I simply wasn&#8217;t smart enough in the right ways to go on in economics. This is the topic of another post in its own right, which I will write &#8211; and I am about to weigh on on the Chris Hayes article in a post (short version &#8211; the heterodox economists who I like tend to be the ones who combine game theory etc with a trenchantly left wing eye for power relations).</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Donoghue</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-198310</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Donoghue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 16:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/#comment-198310</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;There are a bunch of good heterodox economists out there, but I guess that’s not really your field.&lt;/em&gt;

Henry&#039;s CV indicates that his BA subjects were economics and politics. But he decided to specialise in politics. (The UCD economics department will do that to you.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>There are a bunch of good heterodox economists out there, but I guess that&#8217;s not really your field.</em></p>

	<p>Henry&#8217;s CV indicates that his BA subjects were economics and politics. But he decided to specialise in politics. (The <span class="caps">UCD</span> economics department will do that to you.)</p>
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		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-198308</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 15:33:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/#comment-198308</guid>
		<description>Henry (16)-

thanks for the courteous reply to a less-0than-courteous comment. 

Unfortunately, there&#039;s a dearth of left voices in the online world. It&#039;s something I&#039;ve wondered about for a while -- Marxists and other leftists were early adopters of mailing lists, but for some reason haven&#039;t made much of a dent on the web.

Henwood would be at the top of my list of leftists worth your time. (Dan Lazare and Bob Fitch are of the same vintage and also very smart, but again aren&#039;t really active online.) There are a bunch of good heterodox economists out there, but I guess that&#039;s not really your field. Hm. As I think of more, I&#039;ll let you know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Henry (16)-</p>

	<p>thanks for the courteous reply to a less-0than-courteous comment.</p>

	<p>Unfortunately, there&#8217;s a dearth of left voices in the online world. It&#8217;s something I&#8217;ve wondered about for a while&#8212;Marxists and other leftists were early adopters of mailing lists, but for some reason haven&#8217;t made much of a dent on the web.</p>

	<p>Henwood would be at the top of my list of leftists worth your time. (Dan Lazare and Bob Fitch are of the same vintage and also very smart, but again aren&#8217;t really active online.) There are a bunch of good heterodox economists out there, but I guess that&#8217;s not really your field. Hm. As I think of more, I&#8217;ll let you know.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-198305</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 14:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/#comment-198305</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I’d very much like to believe Eugene’s claim that the citizens of a free society are likely to be hostile to those who want to suppress critical views.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Right. Mr. Volokh, may I introduce you to M. de Tocqueville? 
&lt;blockquote&gt;At the present time the most absolute monarchs in Europe are unable to prevent certain notions, which are opposed to their authority, from circulating in secret throughout their dominions, and even in their courts. Such is not the case in America; as long as the majority is still undecided, discussion is carried on; but as soon as its decision is irrevocably pronounced, a submissive silence is observed, and the friends, as well as the opponents, of the measure unite in assenting to its propriety. The reason of this is perfectly clear: no monarch is so absolute as to combine all the powers of society in his own hands, and to conquer all opposition with the energy of a majority which is invested with the right of making and of executing the laws.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>I&#8217;d very much like to believe Eugene&#8217;s claim that the citizens of a free society are likely to be hostile to those who want to suppress critical views.</blockquote>Right. Mr. Volokh, may I introduce you to M. de Tocqueville?<br />
<blockquote>At the present time the most absolute monarchs in Europe are unable to prevent certain notions, which are opposed to their authority, from circulating in secret throughout their dominions, and even in their courts. Such is not the case in America; as long as the majority is still undecided, discussion is carried on; but as soon as its decision is irrevocably pronounced, a submissive silence is observed, and the friends, as well as the opponents, of the measure unite in assenting to its propriety. The reason of this is perfectly clear: no monarch is so absolute as to combine all the powers of society in his own hands, and to conquer all opposition with the energy of a majority which is invested with the right of making and of executing the laws.</blockquote></p>
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		<title>By: Wax Banks</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-198303</link>
		<dc:creator>Wax Banks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 14:23:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/#comment-198303</guid>
		<description>Was Reynolds predicting? Inciting? You&#039;re reading him wrong. I betcha five bucks Reynolds has unfinished or unpublished sci-fi manuscripts sitting in his desk drawers at home, and his blog has become an extension of those same writerly impulses: he&#039;s a low-rent fantasist. He&#039;s literally fantasizing about the possibility that something bad will happen to {Muslims, liberals, et al.}. It doesn&#039;t &#039;count&#039; as incitement because it&#039;s his private fantasy; it&#039;s not really prediction because he&#039;s airing what tickles him. Rather, he&#039;s writing like a hack novelist:

1) If I write about these events and they don&#039;t happen, I&#039;m part of the reasonable faction that sees to it that they don&#039;t.

2) If I write about these events and they &lt;em&gt;do&lt;/em&gt; happen, I&#039;m a goddamn &lt;em&gt;prophet&lt;/em&gt;.

3) Either way I get the thrill of indulging my sordid fantasies, compounded by the thrill of pulling one over on my antagonistic readers by presenting them in this &lt;em&gt;artful&lt;/em&gt;, indirect form.

No wonder he&#039;s such a blog triumphalist - blogs allow him to pass himself off as different in kind from the war-porn writers he grew up on. Quite the thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Was Reynolds predicting? Inciting? You&#8217;re reading him wrong. I betcha five bucks Reynolds has unfinished or unpublished sci-fi manuscripts sitting in his desk drawers at home, and his blog has become an extension of those same writerly impulses: he&#8217;s a low-rent fantasist. He&#8217;s literally fantasizing about the possibility that something bad will happen to {Muslims, liberals, et al.}. It doesn&#8217;t &#8216;count&#8217; as incitement because it&#8217;s his private fantasy; it&#8217;s not really prediction because he&#8217;s airing what tickles him. Rather, he&#8217;s writing like a hack novelist:</p>

	<p>1) If I write about these events and they don&#8217;t happen, I&#8217;m part of the reasonable faction that sees to it that they don&#8217;t.</p>

	<p>2) If I write about these events and they <em>do</em> happen, I&#8217;m a goddamn <em>prophet</em>.</p>

	<p>3) Either way I get the thrill of indulging my sordid fantasies, compounded by the thrill of pulling one over on my antagonistic readers by presenting them in this <em>artful</em>, indirect form.</p>

	<p>No wonder he&#8217;s such a blog triumphalist &#8211; blogs allow him to pass himself off as different in kind from the war-porn writers he grew up on. Quite the thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Slocum</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-198298</link>
		<dc:creator>Slocum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 14:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/#comment-198298</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;How about this for clear and specific incitement to do just that:&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;Why hasn’t the former spokesman for the Taliban matriculating at Yale been beaten even more senseless than he already is? According to Hollywood, this nation is a cauldron of ethnic hatreds positively brimming with violent skinheads. Where are the skinheads when you need them? What does a girl have to do to get an angry, club- and torch-wielding mob on its feet?&lt;/i&gt;

Yes, Coulter&#039;s a loon (one who depends on outrage for media attention).  But Reynolds isn&#039;t Coulter.  And nor did Coulter have any expectation at all that a torch-wielding mob would descend on Yale (if she had, she wouldn&#039;t have written it--it was a safe, snarky outrageous thing to say precisely because there was zero chance of it actually happening).  

And, let&#039;s be honest, nor did YOU yourself have any expectation that an actual torch-wielding mob would march through new New Haven.  And while we&#039;re at it, let&#039;s also point out that the only sort of organized, angry, destructive mobs we actually do have these days in the U.S. are leftish ones (and even these are relatively rare and harmless).  For example:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/07/09/BAprotest09.DTL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>How about this for clear and specific incitement to do just that:</i></p>

	<p><i>Why hasn&#8217;t the former spokesman for the Taliban matriculating at Yale been beaten even more senseless than he already is? According to Hollywood, this nation is a cauldron of ethnic hatreds positively brimming with violent skinheads. Where are the skinheads when you need them? What does a girl have to do to get an angry, club- and torch-wielding mob on its feet?</i></p>

	<p>Yes, Coulter&#8217;s a loon (one who depends on outrage for media attention).  But Reynolds isn&#8217;t Coulter.  And nor did Coulter have any expectation at all that a torch-wielding mob would descend on Yale (if she had, she wouldn&#8217;t have written it&#8212;it was a safe, snarky outrageous thing to say precisely because there was zero chance of it actually happening).</p>

	<p>And, let&#8217;s be honest, nor did <span class="caps">YOU</span> yourself have any expectation that an actual torch-wielding mob would march through new New Haven.  And while we&#8217;re at it, let&#8217;s also point out that the only sort of organized, angry, destructive mobs we actually do have these days in the U.S. are leftish ones (and even these are relatively rare and harmless).  For example:</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/07/09/BAprotest09.DTL" rel="nofollow">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/07/09/BAprotest09.DTL</a></p>
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		<title>By: stostosto</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-198289</link>
		<dc:creator>stostosto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 13:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/#comment-198289</guid>
		<description>luc #24:

&lt;i&gt;This episode is typical in that she just plans a trip, and just like that, there’s disagreements spread out between continents and bloggers, of which the only thing of importance seems to be to connect Muslims with violence (23).&lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t like your smug insinuation that it is important to me to connect Muslims with violence. It&#039;s not. It&#039;s far more important to me to connect Muslims to non-violence and outspoken resistance to threatening behaviour in their name. I will connect Muslims with that any time I get the chance. 

The problem in this case is, it&#039;s apparently important to certain Muslims to connect Muslims to violence. Otherwise they would hardly be making such statements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>luc #24:</p>

	<p><i>This episode is typical in that she just plans a trip, and just like that, there&#8217;s disagreements spread out between continents and bloggers, of which the only thing of importance seems to be to connect Muslims with violence (23).</i></p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t like your smug insinuation that it is important to me to connect Muslims with violence. It&#8217;s not. It&#8217;s far more important to me to connect Muslims to non-violence and outspoken resistance to threatening behaviour in their name. I will connect Muslims with that any time I get the chance.</p>

	<p>The problem in this case is, it&#8217;s apparently important to certain Muslims to connect Muslims to violence. Otherwise they would hardly be making such statements.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-198288</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 12:56:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/#comment-198288</guid>
		<description>&quot;Adding the single quotes to make it clear that the idea that there are significant U.S. journalists rooting for America’s defeat is GR’s belief, not a fact.&quot;

Posted by Bill Gardner 

Which adds to Glenn Reynolds&#039; guilt - he&#039;s equating not reporting his preferred lies with treason.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Adding the single quotes to make it clear that the idea that there are significant U.S. journalists rooting for America&#8217;s defeat is GR&#8217;s belief, not a fact.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Posted by Bill Gardner</p>

	<p>Which adds to Glenn Reynolds&#8217; guilt &#8211; he&#8217;s equating not reporting his preferred lies with treason.</p>
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		<title>By: Z</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/comment-page-1/#comment-198283</link>
		<dc:creator>Z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 11:55:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/29/the-threat-of-community-reaction/#comment-198283</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The idea that Reynolds was hinting that journalists or newspapers might be attacked by angry mobs is…well…completely bonkers.&lt;/i&gt;

How about this for clear and specific incitement to do just that:

&lt;i&gt;Why hasn&#039;t the former spokesman for the Taliban matriculating at Yale been beaten even more senseless than he already is? According to Hollywood, this nation is a cauldron of ethnic hatreds positively brimming with violent skinheads. Where are the skinheads when you need them? What does a girl have to do to get an angry, club- and torch-wielding mob on its feet?&lt;/i&gt;

Coming right from the Ann Coulter archive, May 2006. Not to mention the infamous her only regret with respect to that quite unspecific event that happened in Oklahoma. One should really read her, in my opinion, many things can be learned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>The idea that Reynolds was hinting that journalists or newspapers might be attacked by angry mobs is&#8230;well&#8230;completely bonkers.</i></p>

	<p>How about this for clear and specific incitement to do just that:</p>

	<p><i>Why hasn&#8217;t the former spokesman for the Taliban matriculating at Yale been beaten even more senseless than he already is? According to Hollywood, this nation is a cauldron of ethnic hatreds positively brimming with violent skinheads. Where are the skinheads when you need them? What does a girl have to do to get an angry, club- and torch-wielding mob on its feet?</i></p>

	<p>Coming right from the Ann Coulter archive, May 2006. Not to mention the infamous her only regret with respect to that quite unspecific event that happened in Oklahoma. One should really read her, in my opinion, many things can be learned.</p>
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