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	<title>Comments on: Gore and the TV</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: maidhc</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-198982</link>
		<dc:creator>maidhc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 02:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/#comment-198982</guid>
		<description>#24. PBS has been carrying advertising from large corporations since the first Bush administration, I believe. At any rate for quite a long time.

PBS generally runs only about 4 minutes per hour of advertising, versus 10 minutes per hour for commercial broadcasters (I think there is still some limit on this) and around 15 or 20 minutes per hour for cable channels.

PBS runs so many shows about beautiful unspoiled nature sponsored by big oil companies that it is often referred to as the &quot;Petroleum Broadcasting System&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>#24. <span class="caps">PBS</span> has been carrying advertising from large corporations since the first Bush administration, I believe. At any rate for quite a long time.</p>

	<p><span class="caps">PBS</span> generally runs only about 4 minutes per hour of advertising, versus 10 minutes per hour for commercial broadcasters (I think there is still some limit on this) and around 15 or 20 minutes per hour for cable channels.</p>

	<p><span class="caps">PBS</span> runs so many shows about beautiful unspoiled nature sponsored by big oil companies that it is often referred to as the &#8220;Petroleum Broadcasting System&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee A. Arnold</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-198811</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee A. Arnold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2007 07:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/#comment-198811</guid>
		<description>The Court decision made it clear that the Doctrine would not now be applied to websites because this spectrum is not limited to access.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The Court decision made it clear that the Doctrine would not now be applied to websites because this spectrum is not limited to access.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee A. Arnold</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-198809</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee A. Arnold</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2007 07:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/#comment-198809</guid>
		<description>&quot;The “Fairness Doctrine” is a by-definition abridgment of the 1st Amendment&quot;

The Supreme Court upheld the Fairness Doctrine in 1969.  

This comment is more of the intellectual flattening which Gore decries in the book, and he is right to imply that the Founding Fathers would have thought so too.  

Functionally the Doctrine doesn&#039;t prevent the media owner from speaking; it provides access to others to exercise the same right at the same decibel level.  Lack of this access is one of the factors which has demoted reasoned debate in the U.S. democracy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;The &#8220;Fairness Doctrine&#8221; is a by-definition abridgment of the 1st Amendment&#8221;</p>

	<p>The Supreme Court upheld the Fairness Doctrine in 1969.</p>

	<p>This comment is more of the intellectual flattening which Gore decries in the book, and he is right to imply that the Founding Fathers would have thought so too.</p>

	<p>Functionally the Doctrine doesn&#8217;t prevent the media owner from speaking; it provides access to others to exercise the same right at the same decibel level.  Lack of this access is one of the factors which has demoted reasoned debate in the U.S. democracy.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Weiner</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-198766</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Weiner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 11:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/#comment-198766</guid>
		<description>The license renewal thing really does seem like a red herring -- is there a case on record of someone successfully using a license renewal challenge to improve regional news coverage? There&#039;s one on record of people &lt;a href=&quot;http://blog.tmcnet.com/regulations/fcc/citing-first-amendment-fcc-rejects-chicago-tv-license-challenge.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;not doing so&lt;/a&gt;. (OK, I found &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2004/fall/channels-1.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;one&lt;/a&gt;.)

Byrne&#039;s point about radio consolidation is perhaps a good one, but I also think MFB is right that there&#039;s no point in shooting the messenger if he&#039;s not running for office again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The license renewal thing really does seem like a red herring&#8212;is there a case on record of someone successfully using a license renewal challenge to improve regional news coverage? There&#8217;s one on record of people <a href="http://blog.tmcnet.com/regulations/fcc/citing-first-amendment-fcc-rejects-chicago-tv-license-challenge.asp" rel="nofollow">not doing so</a>. (OK, I found <a href="http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2004/fall/channels-1.html" rel="nofollow">one</a>.)</p>

	<p>Byrne&#8217;s point about radio consolidation is perhaps a good one, but I also think <span class="caps">MFB</span> is right that there&#8217;s no point in shooting the messenger if he&#8217;s not running for office again.</p>
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		<title>By: nick s</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-198688</link>
		<dc:creator>nick s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 17:31:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/#comment-198688</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It never ceases to amaze me that liberals defend the Fairness Doctrine.&lt;/i&gt;

Broadcast networks use the public spectrum. They are part of some of the largest corporations in the United States. All bar PBS carry advertising by other large corporations. Admittedly, the multi-channel environment has cut into the role of the network news, but those broadcasts still collectively draw a hefty chunk of viewers.

Your argument is somewhat parochial, though, given that plenty of CT readers come from countries that somehow manage to cope with restrictions on the broadcasting of political speech and oversight of the content of news broadcasts, particularly during election campaigns.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>It never ceases to amaze me that liberals defend the Fairness Doctrine.</i></p>

	<p>Broadcast networks use the public spectrum. They are part of some of the largest corporations in the United States. All bar <span class="caps">PBS</span> carry advertising by other large corporations. Admittedly, the multi-channel environment has cut into the role of the network news, but those broadcasts still collectively draw a hefty chunk of viewers.</p>

	<p>Your argument is somewhat parochial, though, given that plenty of CT readers come from countries that somehow manage to cope with restrictions on the broadcasting of political speech and oversight of the content of news broadcasts, particularly during election campaigns.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Miller</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-198664</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/#comment-198664</guid>
		<description>Barry, they would mind now, but would they mind in 25 years? Don&#039;t you think that television and the Internet will be much more integrated at that point?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Barry, they would mind now, but would they mind in 25 years? Don&#8217;t you think that television and the Internet will be much more integrated at that point?</p>
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		<title>By: Guest</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-198662</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/#comment-198662</guid>
		<description>It would be interesting to read a rewritten version of the Rich Byrne piece that included facts rather than assertions, citations to authority rather than ipse dixits.  Lots of dots, no connections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It would be interesting to read a rewritten version of the Rich Byrne piece that included facts rather than assertions, citations to authority rather than ipse dixits.  Lots of dots, no connections.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-198647</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/#comment-198647</guid>
		<description>&quot;The “Fairness Doctrine” is a by-definition abridgment of the 1st Amendment that might – might – be justifiable in a world where there are three broadcast TV networks but is flat-out nonsensical in a world in which there are countless TV channels, plus a big wide open internet.&quot;

Posted by sd 

Yes, countless channels, and the internet.

Tell ya what - I&#039;ll take the frequencies of the biggest station in each major market.  They shouldn&#039;t mind, because they&#039;ve got the internet.

Right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;The &#8220;Fairness Doctrine&#8221; is a by-definition abridgment of the 1st Amendment that might &#8211; might &#8211; be justifiable in a world where there are three broadcast TV networks but is flat-out nonsensical in a world in which there are countless TV channels, plus a big wide open internet.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Posted by sd</p>

	<p>Yes, countless channels, and the internet.</p>

	<p>Tell ya what &#8211; I&#8217;ll take the frequencies of the biggest station in each major market.  They shouldn&#8217;t mind, because they&#8217;ve got the internet.</p>

	<p>Right?</p>
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		<title>By: Sk</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-198640</link>
		<dc:creator>Sk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 12:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/#comment-198640</guid>
		<description>&quot;...narrowed consumer news choices...&quot;

What delusional doppleganger planet do they live on?

Sk</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;&#8230;narrowed consumer news choices&#8230;&#8221;</p>

	<p>What delusional doppleganger planet do they live on?</p>

	<p>Sk</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Baugh</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-198625</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Baugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 11:09:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/#comment-198625</guid>
		<description>Public demand for crap all the time is overrated. Atrios periodically produces rating numbers that back it up: crap peddling and crisis mongering generate spikes in ratings, but only in the context of an overall long-term decline in viewership and readership. The line that media companies are somehow accountable to the public is, nearly all the time, so much hogwash. They are accountable in pratical terms only to large advertisers, who are in turn shielded from most (though not all) public concerns. 

I&#039;m quite willing to believe that Gore understates the extent to which the 1996 act contributed to the problem, but...geez. That act didn&#039;t invent the Republican noise machine, or (for instance) contribute significantly to Whitewater coverage, or anything like that. It didn&#039;t create the career of Karl Rove or others of his ilk. Etc etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Public demand for crap all the time is overrated. Atrios periodically produces rating numbers that back it up: crap peddling and crisis mongering generate spikes in ratings, but only in the context of an overall long-term decline in viewership and readership. The line that media companies are somehow accountable to the public is, nearly all the time, so much hogwash. They are accountable in pratical terms only to large advertisers, who are in turn shielded from most (though not all) public concerns.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m quite willing to believe that Gore understates the extent to which the 1996 act contributed to the problem, but&#8230;geez. That act didn&#8217;t invent the Republican noise machine, or (for instance) contribute significantly to Whitewater coverage, or anything like that. It didn&#8217;t create the career of Karl Rove or others of his ilk. Etc etc.</p>
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		<title>By: ejh</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-198611</link>
		<dc:creator>ejh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 09:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/#comment-198611</guid>
		<description>I think one problem here is that some of us have long memories and that those long memories include the recollection of Tipper Gore.

I bet Jello Biafra remembers her too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think one problem here is that some of us have long memories and that those long memories include the recollection of Tipper Gore.</p>

	<p>I bet Jello Biafra remembers her too.</p>
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		<title>By: MFB</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-198589</link>
		<dc:creator>MFB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 08:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/#comment-198589</guid>
		<description>If a politician supports good policies while out of office, whereas when in office he either shut his face or tacitly supported harmful policies, should we not celebrate him doing something good for a change? 

Rather, I mean, than taking his hypocrisy to justify undermining his support for good policies?

It&#039;s not as if the people currently in charge are doing a vastly superior job to the one Gore did.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If a politician supports good policies while out of office, whereas when in office he either shut his face or tacitly supported harmful policies, should we not celebrate him doing something good for a change?</p>

	<p>Rather, I mean, than taking his hypocrisy to justify undermining his support for good policies?</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s not as if the people currently in charge are doing a vastly superior job to the one Gore did.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-198582</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 07:41:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/#comment-198582</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Then a few things changed. First tabloid newspapers came along. &lt;/i&gt;

They&#039;ve been around a LONG time.  My guess is since a few years after the newspaper was invented....  A big tabloid publisher looked on the Spanish-American war in 1898 as HIS war, for good reason, because he&#039;d ginned up the war fever, and looked forward to the even more copies that war would sell.

&lt;i&gt;Why do so many people want to watch all that crap? &lt;/i&gt;

Because it&#039;s about entertainment, not just about education.  And it isn&#039;t ALL crap anymore.  Because it&#039;s all niches now, some of those channels actually have thoughtful stuff.  Is BookTV crap?  Or Mythbusters?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Then a few things changed. First tabloid newspapers came along. </i></p>

	<p>They&#8217;ve been around a <span class="caps">LONG</span> time.  My guess is since a few years after the newspaper was invented&#8230;.  A big tabloid publisher looked on the Spanish-American war in 1898 as <span class="caps">HIS</span> war, for good reason, because he&#8217;d ginned up the war fever, and looked forward to the even more copies that war would sell.</p>

	<p><i>Why do so many people want to watch all that crap? </i></p>

	<p>Because it&#8217;s about entertainment, not just about education.  And it isn&#8217;t <span class="caps">ALL</span> crap anymore.  Because it&#8217;s all niches now, some of those channels actually have thoughtful stuff.  Is BookTV crap?  Or Mythbusters?</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-198572</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 07:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/#comment-198572</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I think it&#039;s logically and empirically obvious that higher &quot;media diversity&quot; and these license renewal procedures would do absolutely nothing to produce a better news coverage. 

Market competition mechanism is good for mass-production of cheap low-quality stuff for mass-consumption and that&#039;s exactly what we get; if you want to organize mass-production of high-quality stuff - first kill the competition. Hence your NPR, your BBC, your PBS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yeah, I think it&#8217;s logically and empirically obvious that higher &#8220;media diversity&#8221; and these license renewal procedures would do absolutely nothing to produce a better news coverage.</p>

	<p>Market competition mechanism is good for mass-production of cheap low-quality stuff for mass-consumption and that&#8217;s exactly what we get; if you want to organize mass-production of high-quality stuff &#8211; first kill the competition. Hence your <span class="caps">NPR</span>, your <span class="caps">BBC</span>, your <span class="caps">PBS</span>.</p>
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		<title>By: sd</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/comment-page-1/#comment-198570</link>
		<dc:creator>sd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 06:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/31/gore-and-the-tv/#comment-198570</guid>
		<description>The &quot;Fairness Doctrine&quot; is a by-definition abridgment of the 1st Amendment that might - might - be justifiable in a world where there are three broadcast TV networks but is flat-out nonsensical in a world in which there are countless TV channels, plus a big wide open internet.

It never ceases to amaze me that liberals defend the Fairness Doctrine.  I mean, have you thought through 2nd order effects at all?  Calls to bring back the Fairness Doctrine began to bubble up when it became apparent that conservatives dominated talk radio.  But bringing back the Fairness Doctrine means living in a world where the Bush administration gets to decide what is &quot;balanced&quot; for eight years.  You like that answer?  Bringing back the Fairness Doctrine means begging the question of why it should apply equally to websites.  You want to see a demand for equal time on Dailykos?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The &#8220;Fairness Doctrine&#8221; is a by-definition abridgment of the 1st Amendment that might &#8211; might &#8211; be justifiable in a world where there are three broadcast TV networks but is flat-out nonsensical in a world in which there are countless TV channels, plus a big wide open internet.</p>

	<p>It never ceases to amaze me that liberals defend the Fairness Doctrine.  I mean, have you thought through 2nd order effects at all?  Calls to bring back the Fairness Doctrine began to bubble up when it became apparent that conservatives dominated talk radio.  But bringing back the Fairness Doctrine means living in a world where the Bush administration gets to decide what is &#8220;balanced&#8221; for eight years.  You like that answer?  Bringing back the Fairness Doctrine means begging the question of why it should apply equally to websites.  You want to see a demand for equal time on Dailykos?</p>
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