<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Canyon Hike</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 03:14:53 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Russell L. Carter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/comment-page-1/#comment-200979</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell L. Carter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 05:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/#comment-200979</guid>
		<description>Umm, distances in the west are large... Brian Head is way over on the other side of Utah from the side that is nearest to the Black Canyon of the Gunnison...  It generally takes me a day to meander my way from the first to the second.  Or vice versa.  There is no direct method.  This is a virtue.

And there are cultural differences.  I have had excellent service with car troubles in both Durango and St. George but I felt a lot more comfortable in Durango.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Umm, distances in the west are large&#8230; Brian Head is way over on the other side of Utah from the side that is nearest to the Black Canyon of the Gunnison&#8230;  It generally takes me a day to meander my way from the first to the second.  Or vice versa.  There is no direct method.  This is a virtue.</p>

	<p>And there are cultural differences.  I have had excellent service with car troubles in both Durango and St. George but I felt a lot more comfortable in Durango.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: alan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/comment-page-1/#comment-200941</link>
		<dc:creator>alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 06:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/#comment-200941</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been wondering why those photos had so many views... Now I know.

Born and raised as I was in Utah, I&#039;ll weigh in a little: The whole state has come a long way, and Salt Lake City by now has just about anything most people could want. The liquor laws, while a bit odd, are certainly far less restrictive than they are in dry counties elsewhere in the country. Most of the time they amount to paying a few extra bucks&#039; cover charge to be a &quot;member&quot; of a &quot;private club&quot; for the night. Restaurants can have full beer/wine/booze service, just like ... everwhere else. No hinky complications or cover charges. The wine buyers for the state liquor stores tend to be really good, and there are loads of very good microbreweries. 

(I don&#039;t know why any explanation of &quot;Utah&#039;s okay, really&quot; always has to begin with the liquor law thing.)

Southeastern/central Utah is very different from southwestern Utah -- the side closer to Vegas is much as Matt describes, though as soon as you move either north, toward Delta and the west desert, or east, you approach the kind of high desert that can plummet in temperature during the night -- even in summer.

As for the desirability of living within a couple of hours of southern Utah: Don&#039;t tell anybody, but [redacted] and [oops] are pretty close. The state is working like crazy to capitalize on tourism post-2002, which means that most conceptions of the Mormon closed society are pretty outdated. You&#039;re far more likely to encounter the conservatism that comes with ranching and mining -- which you&#039;ll find nearly everywhere in the small and mid-sized towns of the western US -- than anything overtly religious.

And it really is a spectacular part of the country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve been wondering why those photos had so many views&#8230; Now I know.</p>

	<p>Born and raised as I was in Utah, I&#8217;ll weigh in a little: The whole state has come a long way, and Salt Lake City by now has just about anything most people could want. The liquor laws, while a bit odd, are certainly far less restrictive than they are in dry counties elsewhere in the country. Most of the time they amount to paying a few extra bucks&#8217; cover charge to be a &#8220;member&#8221; of a &#8220;private club&#8221; for the night. Restaurants can have full beer/wine/booze service, just like &#8230; everwhere else. No hinky complications or cover charges. The wine buyers for the state liquor stores tend to be really good, and there are loads of very good microbreweries.</p>

	<p>(I don&#8217;t know why any explanation of &#8220;Utah&#8217;s okay, really&#8221; always has to begin with the liquor law thing.)</p>

	<p>Southeastern/central Utah is very different from southwestern Utah&#8212;the side closer to Vegas is much as Matt describes, though as soon as you move either north, toward Delta and the west desert, or east, you approach the kind of high desert that can plummet in temperature during the night&#8212;even in summer.</p>

	<p>As for the desirability of living within a couple of hours of southern Utah: Don&#8217;t tell anybody, but [redacted] and [oops] are pretty close. The state is working like crazy to capitalize on tourism post-2002, which means that most conceptions of the Mormon closed society are pretty outdated. You&#8217;re far more likely to encounter the conservatism that comes with ranching and mining&#8212;which you&#8217;ll find nearly everywhere in the small and mid-sized towns of the western <span class="caps">US </span>&#8212;than anything overtly religious.</p>

	<p>And it really is a spectacular part of the country.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/comment-page-1/#comment-200898</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 13:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/#comment-200898</guid>
		<description>I love many things about Souther Utah.  My grandparents lived there until a few years ago so for many year I visited quite regularly.  The area around St. George is beautiful- some of the most striking parts of the country- and you can get to great places w/in minutes.  But, it is _very, very conservative.  It&#039;s also not exactly full of culture (though it is much better than it was 10-15 years ago.)  And, because of the combination of Utah&#039;s crazy liqure laws and the relative lack of non-Mormons it&#039;s quite hard to get a drink there.  On top of that by about this time it&#039;s close to 120 degrees in the day, cooling down to about 90 at night.  While it&#039;s dry that&#039;s still not fun to play in.  It&#039;s a great place to visit in the spring and fall but not a great place to live, especially for non-mormons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I love many things about Souther Utah.  My grandparents lived there until a few years ago so for many year I visited quite regularly.  The area around St. George is beautiful- some of the most striking parts of the country- and you can get to great places w/in minutes.  But, it is _very, very conservative.  It&#8217;s also not exactly full of culture (though it is much better than it was 10-15 years ago.)  And, because of the combination of Utah&#8217;s crazy liqure laws and the relative lack of non-Mormons it&#8217;s quite hard to get a drink there.  On top of that by about this time it&#8217;s close to 120 degrees in the day, cooling down to about 90 at night.  While it&#8217;s dry that&#8217;s still not fun to play in.  It&#8217;s a great place to visit in the spring and fall but not a great place to live, especially for non-mormons.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: anon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/comment-page-1/#comment-200882</link>
		<dc:creator>anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 06:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/#comment-200882</guid>
		<description>&quot;I love Southern Utah—why not to live there, except perhaps to avoid the Southern California diaspora?&quot;

Southern Utah is *extremely* socially and politically conservative (SLC is a liberal hotbed, by Southern Utah standards). Most academics aren&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;I love Southern Utah&#8212;why not to live there, except perhaps to avoid the Southern California diaspora?&#8221;</p>

	<p>Southern Utah is <strong>extremely</strong> socially and politically conservative (SLC is a liberal hotbed, by Southern Utah standards). Most academics aren&#8217;t.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lester Hunt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/comment-page-1/#comment-200877</link>
		<dc:creator>Lester Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 03:56:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/#comment-200877</guid>
		<description>&quot;Of course, not many liberal academic types want to live within a couple hours’ drive of southern Utah.&quot;

I think it might be more common among &lt;i&gt;classical&lt;/i&gt; liberal academic types, but that might just be a case of projection on my part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Of course, not many liberal academic types want to live within a couple hours&#8217; drive of southern Utah.&#8221;</p>

	<p>I think it might be more common among <i>classical</i> liberal academic types, but that might just be a case of projection on my part.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gene O'Grady</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/comment-page-1/#comment-200869</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene O'Grady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 01:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/#comment-200869</guid>
		<description>The last time I was near Brian Head, which was later in the summer than this, the snow was about ten feet deep.  That was actually quite unusual, the only time in my four five excursions to that part of the world that it was like that.  If I&#039;d paid better attention I could look at the trees around Professor Healy and tell him the elevation.

And for Mr. O&#039;Donnell -- I&#039;m all too familiar with the esthetic strand.  But I don&#039;t think that&#039;s actually along the coast proper.  I do recommend the little towns and the rivers as being rather more interesting than their equivalents in CA -- much as I love Eureka.  My Ramones bakery tee-shirts have always been good conversation starters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The last time I was near Brian Head, which was later in the summer than this, the snow was about ten feet deep.  That was actually quite unusual, the only time in my four five excursions to that part of the world that it was like that.  If I&#8217;d paid better attention I could look at the trees around Professor Healy and tell him the elevation.</p>

	<p>And for Mr. O&#8217;Donnell&#8212;I&#8217;m all too familiar with the esthetic strand.  But I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s actually along the coast proper.  I do recommend the little towns and the rivers as being rather more interesting than their equivalents in <span class="caps">CA </span>&#8212;much as I love Eureka.  My Ramones bakery tee-shirts have always been good conversation starters.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kieran Healy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/comment-page-1/#comment-200867</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran Healy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 00:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/#comment-200867</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; Of course, not many liberal academic types want to live within a couple hours’ drive of southern Utah.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kieranhealy.org/files/misc/brianhead3.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here I am&lt;/a&gt; biking around southern Utah a few years ago, near Brian Head. About nine hours driving rather than two, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i> Of course, not many liberal academic types want to live within a couple hours&#8217; drive of southern Utah.</i></p>

	<p><a href="http://www.kieranhealy.org/files/misc/brianhead3.jpg" rel="nofollow">Here I am</a> biking around southern Utah a few years ago, near Brian Head. About nine hours driving rather than two, though.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick S. O'Donnell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/comment-page-1/#comment-200866</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick S. O'Donnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jun 2007 00:43:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/#comment-200866</guid>
		<description>Gene,

Well, for one, I noticed too much logging in parts not far from the road: often there&#039;s a strand of trees for &quot;aesthetic purposes,&quot; immediately behind which is a denuded piece of land. Also, the air smells a bit different (have yet to figure out why: the humidity?) and the weather along the coastline can be more extreme. However, I do like much of the coast of Oregon as well, but probably am biased due to a &quot;mere exposure effect&quot; and something akin to an availability heuristic. I&#039;m sure my tastes here are idiosyncratic and I doubt I could rationally justify them. Perhaps the virtues of the Oregon coast are just a bit different and I prefer those peculiar to California (of course the geo-political border is not quite definitive here).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Gene,</p>

	<p>Well, for one, I noticed too much logging in parts not far from the road: often there&#8217;s a strand of trees for &#8220;aesthetic purposes,&#8221; immediately behind which is a denuded piece of land. Also, the air smells a bit different (have yet to figure out why: the humidity?) and the weather along the coastline can be more extreme. However, I do like much of the coast of Oregon as well, but probably am biased due to a &#8220;mere exposure effect&#8221; and something akin to an availability heuristic. I&#8217;m sure my tastes here are idiosyncratic and I doubt I could rationally justify them. Perhaps the virtues of the Oregon coast are just a bit different and I prefer those peculiar to California (of course the geo-political border is not quite definitive here).</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MQ</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/comment-page-1/#comment-200864</link>
		<dc:creator>MQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 23:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/#comment-200864</guid>
		<description>One of the luxuries of the West is that it&#039;s ALL AWESOME. There&#039;s room for differences in taste -- rain forests vs. vast red-rock deserts -- but you can&#039;t lose. No point debating which part is better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>One of the luxuries of the West is that it&#8217;s <span class="caps">ALL AWESOME</span>. There&#8217;s room for differences in taste&#8212;rain forests vs. vast red-rock deserts&#8212;but you can&#8217;t lose. No point debating which part is better.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gene O'Grady</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/comment-page-1/#comment-200863</link>
		<dc:creator>Gene O'Grady</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 23:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/#comment-200863</guid>
		<description>I love Southern Utah -- why not to live there, except perhaps to avoid the Southern California diaspora?

And, Patrick S O&#039;Donnell, what goes wrong with the Coast after you pass the Oregon border?  Maybe too many new golf courses around Bandon, but other than that it&#039;s a charming place.  Although my kids may strangle me if I drag them to see another Darlingtonia (or whatever the singular would be).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I love Southern Utah&#8212;why not to live there, except perhaps to avoid the Southern California diaspora?</p>

	<p>And, Patrick <span class="caps">S O</span>&#8217;Donnell, what goes wrong with the Coast after you pass the Oregon border?  Maybe too many new golf courses around Bandon, but other than that it&#8217;s a charming place.  Although my kids may strangle me if I drag them to see another Darlingtonia (or whatever the singular would be).</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kim</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/comment-page-1/#comment-200862</link>
		<dc:creator>kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 23:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/#comment-200862</guid>
		<description>Southern Utah is truly spectacular as well. Of course, not many liberal academic types want to live within a couple hours&#039; drive of southern Utah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Southern Utah is truly spectacular as well. Of course, not many liberal academic types want to live within a couple hours&#8217; drive of southern Utah.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick S. O'Donnell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/comment-page-1/#comment-200860</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick S. O'Donnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 23:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/#comment-200860</guid>
		<description>oops: &quot;it is&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>oops: &#8220;it is&#8221; </p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick S. O'Donnell</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/comment-page-1/#comment-200859</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick S. O'Donnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 23:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/#comment-200859</guid>
		<description>Indeed, the West is truly spectacular. The few times we do vacation, is it always north of us, along the California coastline: from Cambria to the Oregon border is so utterly enchanting. And nothing quite compares to the redwoods rubbing up against the coastline (e.g., Patrick&#039;s Point State Park in Humboldt County). Big Sur, for example, remains magical and in part explains why, when it comes to traveling, I remain rather provincial. Be it in Santa Cruz (Big Basin) or Big Sur, you can hike from the mountains to the ocean (or vice versa) and have time left in the day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Indeed, the West is truly spectacular. The few times we do vacation, is it always north of us, along the California coastline: from Cambria to the Oregon border is so utterly enchanting. And nothing quite compares to the redwoods rubbing up against the coastline (e.g., Patrick&#8217;s Point State Park in Humboldt County). Big Sur, for example, remains magical and in part explains why, when it comes to traveling, I remain rather provincial. Be it in Santa Cruz (Big Basin) or Big Sur, you can hike from the mountains to the ocean (or vice versa) and have time left in the day.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: MQ</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/comment-page-1/#comment-200841</link>
		<dc:creator>MQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 18:56:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/#comment-200841</guid>
		<description>Along with the Alps, the Himalayas, and certain parts of the Andes, the North American West (North America to include Canada) is on the short list of the earth&#039;s most splendid and beautiful places. We should preserve it as a sacred trust.

As Joel says, the North American west may have the best balance of civilized urban living and access to wilderness anywhere...in the Alps, cities are even closer to the mountains, but the Alps are no longer even close to wilderness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Along with the Alps, the Himalayas, and certain parts of the Andes, the North American West (North America to include Canada) is on the short list of the earth&#8217;s most splendid and beautiful places. We should preserve it as a sacred trust.</p>

	<p>As Joel says, the North American west may have the best balance of civilized urban living and access to wilderness anywhere&#8230;in the Alps, cities are even closer to the mountains, but the Alps are no longer even close to wilderness.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joel Turnipseed</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/comment-page-1/#comment-200840</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel Turnipseed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 18:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/06/15/canyon-hike/#comment-200840</guid>
		<description>Nice photos--great experience. The West is truly spectacular, and it&#039;s always been a marvel to me how much of its beauty is accessible on very short trips from major cities: I used to go to Muir Woods once a year as an adjunct to one SF visit or another &amp; climbing around Red Rock Canyon still stands as a favorite visit of mine to LV. 

Even something as grueling and mostly-stupid as playing flight-deck mechanic during war games at Twenty Nine Palms was rewarded by get-away hikes to Joshua Tree (just across the highway) and night runs through the high desert.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Nice photos&#8212;great experience. The West is truly spectacular, and it&#8217;s always been a marvel to me how much of its beauty is accessible on very short trips from major cities: I used to go to Muir Woods once a year as an adjunct to one SF visit or another &#038; climbing around Red Rock Canyon still stands as a favorite visit of mine to LV.</p>

	<p>Even something as grueling and mostly-stupid as playing flight-deck mechanic during war games at Twenty Nine Palms was rewarded by get-away hikes to Joshua Tree (just across the highway) and night runs through the high desert.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk: basic
Page Caching using disk: enhanced

Served from: crookedtimber.org @ 2012-02-13 04:31:56 -->
