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	<title>Comments on: Harry Spoilers and the Something of Something Else</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: J Thomas</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/comment-page-1/#comment-205891</link>
		<dc:creator>J Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jul 2007 23:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>#44, there&#039;s no particular reason to think the old man wounded in WWII hadn&#039;t been wounded during a wizard&#039;s duel. WWII could even have been a sideshow for a wizard&#039;s duel, like the peasant armies that followed knights around.

Note the various muggle deaths during Voldemart&#039;s return getting mischaracterised as this and that.

Wizard numbers were small, so they did their disputes retail while the muggles did them wholesale. Would it be at all hard to imagine Grindelwald going to Hitler somewhat like Fudge did the british prime minister, but with a very different message? Hitler would get secret weapons, believe in racial purity, produce war materials, take over the world. Somehow familiar?

The timing doesn&#039;t work out quite right, Dumbledore and Grindelwald would be too young. Unless they had time turners. If they did, Grindelwald could go back in time and nudge Hitler along from the start. He could even go back further and nudge german philosophers. Dumbledore could go back to Flamel&#039;s time and help him create the philosopher&#039;s stone, and then they both use it for 400+ years. Without that how would Dumbledore get to be the world&#039;s greatest wizard in one lifetime, when Flamel had nearly 5 times as long to learn? Hard to be sure. How did Voldemort get so powerful so quickly? What makes one wizard powerful is left entirely unexplained, apart from his alliance with his wand and the magic he learns.

It&#039;s easy to fit WWII into a sideshow for a wizard&#039;s duel, but I&#039;m just as glad she never spelled out the details.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>#44, there&#8217;s no particular reason to think the old man wounded in <span class="caps">WWII</span> hadn&#8217;t been wounded during a wizard&#8217;s duel. <span class="caps">WWII</span> could even have been a sideshow for a wizard&#8217;s duel, like the peasant armies that followed knights around.</p>

	<p>Note the various muggle deaths during Voldemart&#8217;s return getting mischaracterised as this and that.</p>

	<p>Wizard numbers were small, so they did their disputes retail while the muggles did them wholesale. Would it be at all hard to imagine Grindelwald going to Hitler somewhat like Fudge did the british prime minister, but with a very different message? Hitler would get secret weapons, believe in racial purity, produce war materials, take over the world. Somehow familiar?</p>

	<p>The timing doesn&#8217;t work out quite right, Dumbledore and Grindelwald would be too young. Unless they had time turners. If they did, Grindelwald could go back in time and nudge Hitler along from the start. He could even go back further and nudge german philosophers. Dumbledore could go back to Flamel&#8217;s time and help him create the philosopher&#8217;s stone, and then they both use it for 400+ years. Without that how would Dumbledore get to be the world&#8217;s greatest wizard in one lifetime, when Flamel had nearly 5 times as long to learn? Hard to be sure. How did Voldemort get so powerful so quickly? What makes one wizard powerful is left entirely unexplained, apart from his alliance with his wand and the magic he learns.</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s easy to fit <span class="caps">WWII</span> into a sideshow for a wizard&#8217;s duel, but I&#8217;m just as glad she never spelled out the details.</p>
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		<title>By: phil</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/comment-page-1/#comment-205639</link>
		<dc:creator>phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jul 2007 02:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/#comment-205639</guid>
		<description>Should I conclude that Voldemort&#039;s evil schemes crashed to the ground because the boys had all been grabbing each others&#039; wands?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Should I conclude that Voldemort&#8217;s evil schemes crashed to the ground because the boys had all been grabbing each others&#8217; wands?</p>
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		<title>By: richard</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/comment-page-1/#comment-205618</link>
		<dc:creator>richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 22:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/#comment-205618</guid>
		<description>Yikes. How&#039;s Helena Bonham Carter going to pull off &lt;i&gt;sexualised?&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yikes. How&#8217;s Helena Bonham Carter going to pull off <i>sexualised?</i></p>
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		<title>By: cw</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/comment-page-1/#comment-205609</link>
		<dc:creator>cw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 19:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/#comment-205609</guid>
		<description>I loved the Bellatrix-Mrs. Weasley duel all the more for its tortured cheesiness. Now, after all the threats &amp; harm her family has suffered, now her character pulls a second dimension out of thin air? And did Bellatrix have to take on 3 girl students so the men had someone to fight? (You can say a lot about those Death Eaters, but apparently their chivalry isn&#039;t dead) But the ideal of Victorian maternal femininity kicking the ass of the only sexualized female character in the series (pubescent snogging doesn&#039;t count - but, seriously, can anyone remember any other reference in the book to a heaving bosom?) - priceless!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I loved the Bellatrix-Mrs. Weasley duel all the more for its tortured cheesiness. Now, after all the threats &#038; harm her family has suffered, now her character pulls a second dimension out of thin air? And did Bellatrix have to take on 3 girl students so the men had someone to fight? (You can say a lot about those Death Eaters, but apparently their chivalry isn&#8217;t dead) But the ideal of Victorian maternal femininity kicking the ass of the only sexualized female character in the series (pubescent snogging doesn&#8217;t count &#8211; but, seriously, can anyone remember any other reference in the book to a heaving bosom?) &#8211; priceless!</p>
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		<title>By: Alejandro</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/comment-page-1/#comment-205591</link>
		<dc:creator>Alejandro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/#comment-205591</guid>
		<description>Besides what #40 said, it is explicit in canon that Muggle WW2 occurred in the Potterverse. In the first chapter of Goblet of Fire, the old caretaker that Voldermort kills is said to have been injured in the war. So that was not just the Muggle faked memory version of the Grindelwald menace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Besides what #40 said, it is explicit in canon that Muggle <span class="caps">WW2</span> occurred in the Potterverse. In the first chapter of Goblet of Fire, the old caretaker that Voldermort kills is said to have been injured in the war. So that was not just the Muggle faked memory version of the Grindelwald menace.</p>
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		<title>By: JanieM</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/comment-page-1/#comment-205586</link>
		<dc:creator>JanieM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:30:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/#comment-205586</guid>
		<description>My daughter also suggests Sherwood Smith, especially &quot;Crown Duel.&quot;  Whereas Pierce&#039;s stories do have sometimes show the characters actually falling in love and having relationships and stuff (nothing that I find remotely objectionable, but standards, like tastes, do differ...), she says Sherwood Smith doesn&#039;t even have that whiff of a potential objection re appropriateness for a 6 year old.

Anyhow, she won&#039;t be 6 forever, and by all indications she&#039;ll still be wanting things to read......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My daughter also suggests Sherwood Smith, especially &#8220;Crown Duel.&#8221;  Whereas Pierce&#8217;s stories do have sometimes show the characters actually falling in love and having relationships and stuff (nothing that I find remotely objectionable, but standards, like tastes, do differ&#8230;), she says Sherwood Smith doesn&#8217;t even have that whiff of a potential objection re appropriateness for a 6 year old.</p>

	<p>Anyhow, she won&#8217;t be 6 forever, and by all indications she&#8217;ll still be wanting things to read&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: SamChevre</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/comment-page-1/#comment-205545</link>
		<dc:creator>SamChevre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 13:06:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/#comment-205545</guid>
		<description>Tom Ames,

Second the Tamora Pierce recoomendation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Tom Ames,</p>

	<p>Second the Tamora Pierce recoomendation.</p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/comment-page-1/#comment-205541</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/#comment-205541</guid>
		<description>What about Terry Pratchett? OK, I know they&#039;re &#039;humorous&#039;, but they&#039;ve got a better, more consistently humanist morality than HP, Tolkien, etc etc etc. Granny Weatherwax is a better example of the responsible use of magic than Gandalf will ever be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>What about Terry Pratchett? OK, I know they&#8217;re &#8216;humorous&#8217;, but they&#8217;ve got a better, more consistently humanist morality than HP, Tolkien, etc etc etc. Granny Weatherwax is a better example of the responsible use of magic than Gandalf will ever be.</p>
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		<title>By: richard</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/comment-page-1/#comment-205530</link>
		<dc:creator>richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/#comment-205530</guid>
		<description>re 20, 26 (&quot;WW2 was fake&quot; argument): This would not only be offensive, it would also be a massive breach of the HP world as presented. As others have noted, the HP plot hardly ever steps outside Britain: what would Germans and others do with a WW2 memory? The scale of the wizarding world is tiny; Hogwarts (the only major magic school in Britain) seems to have an annual intake of something like a hundred students - the total wizard population of Britain seems unlikely to be more than about 10,000. Many vital industries (wands, cauldrons) seem to depend on single shops. Indeed, things are so intimate that there can be a real power struggle between the head of the only educational institution and the head of the government. In short, the whole wizard war could probably be covered up by a pharmaceutical product recall or a bad, localised chemical spill.

I think JKR&#039;s point is that fascism, or something like it, is not a unique historical event: it can occur anywhere, over anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>re 20, 26 (&#8220;WW2 was fake&#8221; argument): This would not only be offensive, it would also be a massive breach of the HP world as presented. As others have noted, the HP plot hardly ever steps outside Britain: what would Germans and others do with a <span class="caps">WW2</span> memory? The scale of the wizarding world is tiny; Hogwarts (the only major magic school in Britain) seems to have an annual intake of something like a hundred students &#8211; the total wizard population of Britain seems unlikely to be more than about 10,000. Many vital industries (wands, cauldrons) seem to depend on single shops. Indeed, things are so intimate that there can be a real power struggle between the head of the only educational institution and the head of the government. In short, the whole wizard war could probably be covered up by a pharmaceutical product recall or a bad, localised chemical spill.</p>

	<p>I think <span class="caps">JKR</span>&#8217;s point is that fascism, or something like it, is not a unique historical event: it can occur anywhere, over anything.</p>
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		<title>By: JanieM</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/comment-page-1/#comment-205504</link>
		<dc:creator>JanieM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2007 03:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/#comment-205504</guid>
		<description>Tom Ames -- you might check out 

1) Monica Furlong&#039;s 2 book-length stories of vaguely wiccan magic in a vaguely early Celtic context (&quot;Wise Child&quot; and &quot;Juniper&quot; and sadly, no others) and 

2)Tamora Pierce, who writes tales of magical creatures and people with odd/magical powers. She creates engaging and powerful heroines but also interesting male characters, and she is amazingly prolific.  When she did a reading at our local Barnes and Noble (my daughter was 12 or 13 at the time), the place was mobbed.  I haven&#039;t kept up these last few years, but she tended to create 1 4-book series after another, sometimes with a minor character from 1 series becoming a major one in another.  6 might not be too young...see what you think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Tom Ames&#8212;you might check out</p>

	<p>1) Monica Furlong&#8217;s 2 book-length stories of vaguely wiccan magic in a vaguely early Celtic context (&#8220;Wise Child&#8221; and &#8220;Juniper&#8221; and sadly, no others) and</p>

	<p>2)Tamora Pierce, who writes tales of magical creatures and people with odd/magical powers. She creates engaging and powerful heroines but also interesting male characters, and she is amazingly prolific.  When she did a reading at our local Barnes and Noble (my daughter was 12 or 13 at the time), the place was mobbed.  I haven&#8217;t kept up these last few years, but she tended to create 1 4-book series after another, sometimes with a minor character from 1 series becoming a major one in another.  6 might not be too young&#8230;see what you think.</p>
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		<title>By: yabonn</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/comment-page-1/#comment-205450</link>
		<dc:creator>yabonn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/#comment-205450</guid>
		<description>I found the intra-trio quarrels and moodiness artificial, clumsy and annoying, but that has been going on for a few books.

The book feels a little compressed, with too much paper reading/visions/etc plot advancing tricks.

But I liked it, because of the good parts. Yay Luna, the Longbottoms and Ma Weasley ! I&#039;m also partial to &quot;not such a baddie afterall&quot; stories so I&#039;m rather happy with the Snape redemption (doesn&#039;t make the character less interesting in my book).

And also : Yay Luna !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I found the intra-trio quarrels and moodiness artificial, clumsy and annoying, but that has been going on for a few books.</p>

	<p>The book feels a little compressed, with too much paper reading/visions/etc plot advancing tricks.</p>

	<p>But I liked it, because of the good parts. Yay Luna, the Longbottoms and Ma Weasley ! I&#8217;m also partial to &#8220;not such a baddie afterall&#8221; stories so I&#8217;m rather happy with the Snape redemption (doesn&#8217;t make the character less interesting in my book).</p>

	<p>And also : Yay Luna !</p>
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		<title>By: rupes</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/comment-page-1/#comment-205407</link>
		<dc:creator>rupes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:41:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/#comment-205407</guid>
		<description>Agreed, there are a lot of flaws and general clunkiness.

But it was still a darn good read

I read it straight through one sitting, and I don&#039;t know anyone who stopped part-way through (which makes it better than 4, 5 and 6)

Tom Ames: would give another vote for PRYDAIN series. Easier than some of the other suggestions, but with great story and strong adult theme too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Agreed, there are a lot of flaws and general clunkiness.</p>

	<p>But it was still a darn good read</p>

	<p>I read it straight through one sitting, and I don&#8217;t know anyone who stopped part-way through (which makes it better than 4, 5 and 6)</p>

	<p>Tom Ames: would give another vote for <span class="caps">PRYDAIN</span> series. Easier than some of the other suggestions, but with great story and strong adult theme too.</p>
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		<title>By: Kieran Healy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/comment-page-1/#comment-205395</link>
		<dc:creator>Kieran Healy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:16:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/#comment-205395</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; I just hate to hear anyone arguing for one-dimensionality in characters.&lt;/i&gt;

Plausibility is the issue, not one-dimensionality. If established characters can suddenly reveal any kind of hidden ability or what have you at the drop of a hat -- or when it&#039;s convenient to the plot --  this makes them less interesting, not moreso.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i> I just hate to hear anyone arguing for one-dimensionality in characters.</i></p>

	<p>Plausibility is the issue, not one-dimensionality. If established characters can suddenly reveal any kind of hidden ability or what have you at the drop of a hat&#8212;or when it&#8217;s convenient to the plot&#8212; this makes them less interesting, not moreso.</p>
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		<title>By: chasdenny</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/comment-page-1/#comment-205384</link>
		<dc:creator>chasdenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/#comment-205384</guid>
		<description>on children&#039;s books: Dianna Wynne Jones&#039;s Charmed Life and the other Chrestomanci books make much more clever use of the imaginative possibilities of magic than Rowling&#039;s. Not as dark as Earthsea, probably about right to read to a six year old.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>on children&#8217;s books: Dianna Wynne Jones&#8217;s Charmed Life and the other Chrestomanci books make much more clever use of the imaginative possibilities of magic than Rowling&#8217;s. Not as dark as Earthsea, probably about right to read to a six year old.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Kuzma</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/comment-page-1/#comment-205319</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Kuzma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/07/24/harry-spoilers-and-the-something-of-something-else/#comment-205319</guid>
		<description>You may be right about the lack of forshadowing and the brief transition.  I haven&#039;t actually read any of the books, I just hate to hear anyone arguing &lt;b&gt;for&lt;/b&gt; one-dimensionality in characters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>You may be right about the lack of forshadowing and the brief transition.  I haven&#8217;t actually read any of the books, I just hate to hear anyone arguing <b>for</b> one-dimensionality in characters.</p>
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