Comments on: Degrees in bootlicking http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 27 May 2012 06:29:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Roy Belmont http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/comment-page-3/#comment-207756 Roy Belmont Mon, 20 Aug 2007 02:45:52 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/#comment-207756 Seth E #106- Huh? What? My perception of your insightful perceptions, being a kind of received perceiving though not exactly beginning with the self I'm calling my own but rather with yours - sort of begins with sort of doesn't - takes us into another set of dimensional boundaries, now don't it? Oh, hey, speaking of fan-watching... Peter #107- It's the name-callers. Name-callers have "bent the true purpose of the academy", now it can only go 'round in circles. Professionals training professionals who in turn train professionals, recursively on down into a labyrinth of self-referential incestuousity. They've wrecked everything, those name-callers, damn their eyes! Seth E #106-
Huh? What? My perception of your insightful perceptions, being a kind of received perceiving though not exactly beginning with the self I’m calling my own but rather with yours – sort of begins with sort of doesn’t – takes us into another set of dimensional boundaries, now don’t it?
Oh, hey, speaking of fan-watching…
Peter #107-
It’s the name-callers. Name-callers have “bent the true purpose of the academy”, now it can only go ‘round in circles. Professionals training professionals who in turn train professionals, recursively on down into a labyrinth of self-referential incestuousity.
They’ve wrecked everything, those name-callers, damn their eyes!

]]> By: Peter http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/comment-page-3/#comment-207738 Peter Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:03:54 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/#comment-207738 <i>"It isn’t that Murdoch’s seamen are wrong to do what they do or be what they are, it’s that bending the academy to serve Murdoch’s needs and interests redirects the entire endeavor." </i> (#105) But, historically, as I said above, teaching yachtsmanship at University is not "bending" its purpose at all. From medieval times, the purpose of the academy was, and has since mostly still been, directed towards the training of professionals, almost all of whom would work after graduation in the here and now. It's the never-never navel-gazers, players of glass bead games all, who have bent the true purpose of the academy! “It isn’t that Murdoch’s seamen are wrong to do what they do or be what they are, it’s that bending the academy to serve Murdoch’s needs and interests redirects the entire endeavor.” (#105)

But, historically, as I said above, teaching yachtsmanship at University is not “bending” its purpose at all. From medieval times, the purpose of the academy was, and has since mostly still been, directed towards the training of professionals, almost all of whom would work after graduation in the here and now. It’s the never-never navel-gazers, players of glass bead games all, who have bent the true purpose of the academy!

]]> By: Seth Edenbaum http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/comment-page-3/#comment-207731 Seth Edenbaum Sun, 19 Aug 2007 17:39:58 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/#comment-207731 "It isn’t traditionally about serving the here and now, but the there and later." A "serious" university education should not be based upon assumed foundations. The incorporation of the research model into the humanities means that the humanities are now governed by a (spurious) foundationalism. After all, we all know what we value, there's no need to question it. Academic rationalism whether in economics or philosophy is pseudoscience predicated on the desire for neat and tidy order. Chomskian linguistics, Posnerite economics and scholastic philosophy all come from the same source. And even people who think the American press sucks dream of an ideal world where the press is rational and objective. <blockquote>Transcendental logic. the method of discovery for the mind, was to become also the method of evolution in nature and history. Transcendental method, so abused, became transcendental myth. A conscientious critique of knowledge was turned into a sham system of nature. We must therefore distinguish sharply the transcendental grammar of the intellect, which is significant and potentially correct, from the various transcendental systems of the universe which are chimeras.</blockquote> It's all well and good in fact it makes perfect sense, to recognize that all perception begins with the self. It makes no sense at all the think that the self is therefore the center of the universe. Liberalism as neoliberalism has become no more or less than the institutionalization of an optimism cribbed from the sciences and transformed into the the joy of an autistic child staring at the rotating motion of a window fan. After all, why question it if it makes you happy? “It isn’t traditionally about serving the here and now, but the there and later.”

A “serious” university education should not be based upon assumed foundations. The incorporation of the research model into the humanities means that the humanities are now governed by a (spurious) foundationalism. After all, we all know what we value, there’s no need to question it. Academic rationalism whether in economics or philosophy is pseudoscience predicated on the desire for neat and tidy order. Chomskian linguistics, Posnerite economics and scholastic philosophy all come from the same source. And even people who think the American press sucks dream of an ideal world where the press is rational and objective.

Transcendental logic. the method of discovery for the mind, was to become also the method of evolution in nature and history. Transcendental method, so abused, became transcendental myth. A conscientious critique of knowledge was turned into a sham system of nature. We must therefore distinguish sharply the transcendental grammar of the intellect, which is significant and potentially correct, from the various transcendental systems of the universe which are chimeras.
It’s all well and good in fact it makes perfect sense, to recognize that all perception begins with the self. It makes no sense at all the think that the self is therefore the center of the universe.
Liberalism as neoliberalism has become no more or less than the institutionalization of an optimism cribbed from the sciences and transformed into the the joy of an autistic child staring at the rotating motion of a window fan.
After all, why question it if it makes you happy?

]]> By: Roy Belmont http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/comment-page-3/#comment-207724 Roy Belmont Sun, 19 Aug 2007 16:33:34 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/#comment-207724 One possible difference between the yachting butlers and the tenure candidates would be the dedication of the service involved. The yacht is here and now, a part of contemporary lives lived in present condition. The academy is vaguely but intentionally dedicated to a future humanity. It isn't traditionally about serving the here and now, but the there and later. This is a distinction that's being thrown overboard with no little frequency. The idea of serving more than power is operating at the margin of this question, serving something that's actually more helpless than the most helpless of present company - those yet to be, that thing yet to be that will come from what we do, or don't do. There's no bright line between a topless waitress with hundred dollar bills stuck in her sequined g-string and a <i>sommelier</i> in the most exclusive private dining room in town. There's no bright line between a "full-service" masseuse and a neuro-surgeon for that matter. There's no difference, no real ascertainable in an immediate sense difference between porridge made from surplus from a bountiful harvest and that made from the last of the seed corn. The distinction's in the long-term, where most moral and ethical attributes reveal. It isn't that Murdoch's seamen are wrong to do what they do or be what they are, it's that bending the academy to serve Murdoch's needs and interests redirects the entire endeavor. Pretending that's all there is is the flaw. The symptoms aren't the disease. A world in which Murdoch represents the sum of human aspiration won't last - a point impossible to prove until it doesn't matter - making the goals of the academy cheap and profane, and futile. when bent to serve only that. For the already cheapened and profaned this will seem ridiculous, and engender scorn, because either way they aren't going. A world in which they prosper is doomed, and a healthy world has no place for them. One possible difference between the yachting butlers and the tenure candidates would be the dedication of the service involved. The yacht is here and now, a part of contemporary lives lived in present condition. The academy is vaguely but intentionally dedicated to a future humanity. It isn’t traditionally about serving the here and now, but the there and later. This is a distinction that’s being thrown overboard with no little frequency.
The idea of serving more than power is operating at the margin of this question, serving something that’s actually more helpless than the most helpless of present company – those yet to be, that thing yet to be that will come from what we do, or don’t do.
There’s no bright line between a topless waitress with hundred dollar bills stuck in her sequined g-string and a sommelier in the most exclusive private dining room in town. There’s no bright line between a “full-service” masseuse and a neuro-surgeon for that matter. There’s no difference, no real ascertainable in an immediate sense difference between porridge made from surplus from a bountiful harvest and that made from the last of the seed corn. The distinction’s in the long-term, where most moral and ethical attributes reveal.
It isn’t that Murdoch’s seamen are wrong to do what they do or be what they are, it’s that bending the academy to serve Murdoch’s needs and interests redirects the entire endeavor. Pretending that’s all there is is the flaw. The symptoms aren’t the disease.
A world in which Murdoch represents the sum of human aspiration won’t last – a point impossible to prove until it doesn’t matter – making the goals of the academy cheap and profane, and futile. when bent to serve only that. For the already cheapened and profaned this will seem ridiculous, and engender scorn, because either way they aren’t going. A world in which they prosper is doomed, and a healthy world has no place for them.

]]> By: Seth Edenbaum http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/comment-page-3/#comment-207710 Seth Edenbaum Sun, 19 Aug 2007 14:55:47 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/#comment-207710 I'm not against vulgarity any more than I'm against the search for simple answers to complex questions, but I'm against the institutionalization of both. Until recently you could "read" law, even in this country. And to describe the priesthood as vulgar is fine by me but I think that many others would disagree. I’m not against vulgarity any more than I’m against the search for simple answers to complex questions, but I’m against the institutionalization of both.

Until recently you could “read” law, even in this country. And to describe the priesthood as vulgar is fine by me but I think that many others would disagree.

]]> By: Peter http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/comment-page-3/#comment-207686 Peter Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:46:44 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/#comment-207686 Well, Seth, professional schools have been a feature of university education for a very long time. In Shakespeare's time, one went to university in order to train as a preacher or as a lawyer. It is the education-for-its-own-sake folks who are the latecomers here, not the professional training schools, so it is incorrect to blame the latter for "vulgarization" (whatever that may be). Well, Seth, professional schools have been a feature of university education for a very long time. In Shakespeare’s time, one went to university in order to train as a preacher or as a lawyer. It is the education-for-its-own-sake folks who are the latecomers here, not the professional training schools, so it is incorrect to blame the latter for “vulgarization” (whatever that may be).

]]> By: abb1 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/comment-page-3/#comment-207669 abb1 Sun, 19 Aug 2007 05:19:58 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/#comment-207669 <i>...because that is covered in the rest of the MBA program!</i> Well, Peter, my point exactly. So, how is a degree for working on billionaires’ luxury vessels is different from the one that applies to any and all vessels - other than, obviously, in its special emphasis on bootlicking? …because that is covered in the rest of the MBA program!

Well, Peter, my point exactly. So, how is a degree for working on billionaires’ luxury vessels is different from the one that applies to any and all vessels – other than, obviously, in its special emphasis on bootlicking?

]]> By: Seth Edenbaum http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/comment-page-3/#comment-207662 Seth Edenbaum Sat, 18 Aug 2007 23:11:58 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/#comment-207662 What's amusing is that this site is predicated on just the vulgarization of the academy that gave us business schools (and "creative writing" classes.) By coincidence I got a hit today off the comments I made <a href="http://crookedtimber.org/2007/05/26/plus-ca-change/" rel="nofollow">this post</a> quoting C.P. Snow. Same problem: who needs wisdom when you have expertise? What’s amusing is that this site is predicated on just the vulgarization of the academy that gave us business schools (and “creative writing” classes.)
By coincidence I got a hit today off the comments I made this post quoting C.P. Snow.
Same problem: who needs wisdom when you have expertise?

]]> By: Peter http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/comment-page-2/#comment-207658 Peter Sat, 18 Aug 2007 21:38:33 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/#comment-207658 Well, abb1, Yale School of Management offers elective courses on its MBA program on "Endowment Management" and on "Strategic Management of Nonprofit Organizations" http://mba.yale.edu/MBA/curriculum/electives/index.shtml No need for Yale to offer a specific course on "Accounting for privately-owned businesses" because that is covered in the rest of the MBA program! Well, abb1, Yale School of Management offers elective courses on its MBA program on “Endowment Management” and on “Strategic Management of Nonprofit Organizations”

http://mba.yale.edu/MBA/curriculum/electives/index.shtml

No need for Yale to offer a specific course on “Accounting for privately-owned businesses” because that is covered in the rest of the MBA program!

]]> By: abb1 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/comment-page-2/#comment-207626 abb1 Fri, 17 Aug 2007 23:26:42 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/#comment-207626 A degree in "accounting for privately owned businesses" would sound a bit odd, no? A degree in “accounting for privately owned businesses” would sound a bit odd, no?

]]> By: Seth Edenbaum http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/comment-page-2/#comment-207624 Seth Edenbaum Fri, 17 Aug 2007 22:38:36 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/#comment-207624 This might get interesting after all. This might get interesting after all.

]]> By: Peter http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/comment-page-2/#comment-207622 Peter Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:44:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/#comment-207622 If it is wrong for Universities to train the staff working for Rupert Murdoch's yacht, then surely it is also wrong for Universities to train the accounting staff working for Rupert Murdoch's companies. What is the ethical difference between Universities teaching maritime management and them teaching accountancy or journalism or architecture or medicine, all professions in which graduates may end up working for rich private clients? Is this debate really just motivated by a distate for practical work? If it is wrong for Universities to train the staff working for Rupert Murdoch’s yacht, then surely it is also wrong for Universities to train the accounting staff working for Rupert Murdoch’s companies. What is the ethical difference between Universities teaching maritime management and them teaching accountancy or journalism or architecture or medicine, all professions in which graduates may end up working for rich private clients?

Is this debate really just motivated by a distate for practical work?

]]> By: Seth Edenbaum http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/comment-page-2/#comment-207619 Seth Edenbaum Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:02:13 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/#comment-207619 "Regarding invisible service that anticipates your needs without exciting your attention..." Is there some sort of ironic intent in the above comment, or are you merely offering me the assistence of an <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Surrender-Erotic-Memoir-Toni-Bentley/dp/0060732474" rel="nofollow">agent provocateur</a> "It might be informative to look at how we interact with machines, rather than getting into the murky area of sexuality" Am I supposed to say thank you or something? “Regarding invisible service that anticipates your needs without exciting your attention…”

Is there some sort of ironic intent in the above comment, or are you merely offering me the assistence of an agent provocateur

“It might be informative to look at how we interact with machines, rather than getting into the murky area of sexuality”

Am I supposed to say thank you or something?

]]> By: richard http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/comment-page-2/#comment-207603 richard Fri, 17 Aug 2007 16:58:30 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/#comment-207603 re:93 - <i>What is the sensibility that takes pleasure in being treated in such a way?</i> Regarding invisible service that anticipates your needs without exciting your attention, well, that's the ultimate goal of user interface design, and I think we're all familiar with having such expectations, even if they're rarely fulfilled. It might be informative to look at how we interact with machines, rather than getting into the murky area of sexuality, which is liable to raise many more issues (not least the question of just how many ballet dancers you're talking about and whether this constitutes an addiction of some kind). re:93 – What is the sensibility that takes pleasure in being treated in such a way?
Regarding invisible service that anticipates your needs without exciting your attention, well, that’s the ultimate goal of user interface design, and I think we’re all familiar with having such expectations, even if they’re rarely fulfilled.
It might be informative to look at how we interact with machines, rather than getting into the murky area of sexuality, which is liable to raise many more issues (not least the question of just how many ballet dancers you’re talking about and whether this constitutes an addiction of some kind).

]]> By: cgeye http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/comment-page-2/#comment-207584 cgeye Fri, 17 Aug 2007 03:26:02 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/14/degrees-in-bootlicking/#comment-207584 http://www.westword.com/2007-08-09/news/at-your-disservice/ They're making progress on making us take out loans to be a serf. http://www.westword.com/2007-08-09/news/at-your-disservice/

They’re making progress on making us take out loans to be a serf.

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