Comments on: Beaucoup de Beauchamp http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 27 May 2012 06:29:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: engels http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/comment-page-3/#comment-208480 engels Fri, 24 Aug 2007 17:32:34 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/#comment-208480 More pointedly, neither is <a href="http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html" rel="nofollow">drunk driving</a>. But the more important issue here is what could possibly drive a relatively reasonable guy like Tim Worstall, whose politics had appeared to begin and end with innocuously batty enthusiams for the Stockmarket, killing furry animals and Keeping The Pound, to try to portray Chimpy McTwat's Vietnam war record as anything other than a desperate scramble to keep his sorry ass as far from the firing line as possible? Perhaps that is a question an economist could answer. More pointedly, neither is drunk driving. But the more important issue here is what could possibly drive a relatively reasonable guy like Tim Worstall, whose politics had appeared to begin and end with innocuously batty enthusiams for the Stockmarket, killing furry animals and Keeping The Pound, to try to portray Chimpy McTwat’s Vietnam war record as anything other than a desperate scramble to keep his sorry ass as far from the firing line as possible?

Perhaps that is a question an economist could answer.

]]> By: engels http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/comment-page-3/#comment-208389 engels Fri, 24 Aug 2007 03:05:01 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/#comment-208389 <i>learning to fly jet fighters is not risk free </i> Neither is bungee jumping. learning to fly jet fighters is not risk free

Neither is bungee jumping.

]]> By: Craig http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/comment-page-3/#comment-208250 Craig Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:55:11 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/#comment-208250 What was the Big Story that Rather was pursuing? That GW Bush had family connections that kept him stateside? Only 98% of the country already believed that. Kerry's purported war hero status was sandbagged by his over-the-top Senate hearing testimony in '71. Does everyone have to be so invested in their side's narrative - we're winning, we're losing - that they can't grasp the complexity that the surge is working AND the Iraqis under Maliki are hopelessly incapable losers? That we need NSA wiretap surveillance AND Bush is incompetent? The concept of "AND" appears to be fading from public discourse as the partisan lines are drawn. What was the Big Story that Rather was pursuing? That GW Bush had family connections that kept him stateside? Only 98% of the country already believed that.

Kerry’s purported war hero status was sandbagged by his over-the-top Senate hearing testimony in ‘71.

Does everyone have to be so invested in their side’s narrative – we’re winning, we’re losing – that they can’t grasp the complexity that the surge is working AND the Iraqis under Maliki are hopelessly incapable losers? That we need NSA wiretap surveillance AND Bush is incompetent?

The concept of “AND” appears to be fading from public discourse as the partisan lines are drawn.

]]> By: SG http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/comment-page-3/#comment-207997 SG Wed, 22 Aug 2007 08:19:31 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/#comment-207997 So your point Tim, is that Bush is not a coward because rather than do a boring, high risk and dirty job for a war he supported, he would rather have joined the ANG and done some high-risk, high-adrenaline activities more suited to his youthful exuberance? And all of this stateside, in the comfort of decent digs? Does this mean that he also would not be a coward if he had decided to pike on the Vietnam war in favour of say, being a racing car driver? Or a bungee jumper? But that some honest, sensible American worker who volunteered and got assigned to cooking duties in a US base in Korea is a coward? I don't think you've proved much here, even if your calculations were not completely wrong. So your point Tim, is that Bush is not a coward because rather than do a boring, high risk and dirty job for a war he supported, he would rather have joined the ANG and done some high-risk, high-adrenaline activities more suited to his youthful exuberance? And all of this stateside, in the comfort of decent digs?

Does this mean that he also would not be a coward if he had decided to pike on the Vietnam war in favour of say, being a racing car driver? Or a bungee jumper? But that some honest, sensible American worker who volunteered and got assigned to cooking duties in a US base in Korea is a coward?

I don’t think you’ve proved much here, even if your calculations were not completely wrong.

]]> By: Tim Worstall http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/comment-page-3/#comment-207991 Tim Worstall Wed, 22 Aug 2007 07:57:57 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/#comment-207991 "Tim, throughout this thread I wasn’t clear about your point. But then it dawned on me." Glad it got across. That learning to fly jet fighters is not risk free (as, say, joining the bureaucracy is). “Tim, throughout this thread I wasn’t clear about your point. But then it dawned on me.”

Glad it got across. That learning to fly jet fighters is not risk free (as, say, joining the bureaucracy is).

]]> By: aaron http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/comment-page-3/#comment-207949 aaron Wed, 22 Aug 2007 01:39:38 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/#comment-207949 Sorry about the lysdexic typing: "You're" should be "Your". Sorry about the lysdexic typing: “You’re” should be “Your”.

]]> By: aaron http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/comment-page-3/#comment-207948 aaron Wed, 22 Aug 2007 01:34:59 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/#comment-207948 (You're post and thread were both the motivation to start the article and eventually finish it. Again, thanks.) (You’re post and thread were both the motivation to start the article and eventually finish it. Again, thanks.)

]]> By: aaron http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/comment-page-3/#comment-207946 aaron Wed, 22 Aug 2007 01:18:09 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/#comment-207946 Huh? There's something wrong with changing moods? (I read the full post before barry's comment.) Huh? There’s something wrong with changing moods? (I read the full post before barry’s comment.)

]]> By: John Quiggin http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/comment-page-3/#comment-207934 John Quiggin Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:21:34 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/#comment-207934 Aaron at #106 "read the whole thing" Aaron at #93 "I stopped reading it because I didn’t find it worth reading past the first page. " If you want to explain the persistence of the parallel universe you couldn't do much better than this. Aaron at #106 “read the whole thing”

Aaron at #93 “I stopped reading it because I didn’t find it worth reading past the first page. ”

If you want to explain the persistence of the parallel universe you couldn’t do much better than this.

]]> By: aaron http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/comment-page-3/#comment-207931 aaron Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:15:24 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/#comment-207931 (Though, to John's credit, he did get me to read what turned out to be a good article. And I also found the article from the sargents interesting. I would have missed both otherwise.) (Though, to John’s credit, he did get me to read what turned out to be a good article. And I also found the article from the sargents interesting. I would have missed both otherwise.)

]]> By: aaron http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/comment-page-3/#comment-207930 aaron Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:11:07 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/#comment-207930 Barry, read the whole thing. Now I think John Q is an even bigger idiot. The trip was clearly about visiting officials, not meandering the streets on Anbar to write a tourist book on how to haggle in the markets. Barry, read the whole thing. Now I think John Q is an even bigger idiot.

The trip was clearly about visiting officials, not meandering the streets on Anbar to write a tourist book on how to haggle in the markets.

]]> By: roger http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/comment-page-3/#comment-207920 roger Tue, 21 Aug 2007 20:38:43 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/#comment-207920 Tim, throughout this thread I wasn't clear about your point. But then it dawned on me. You saw what Bush was up to! The young George Bush was turning up his nose at the mild dangers offered by Vietnam, a pitiful shirking of the extreme risk he craved. To get that buzz, to get that something that would help him live at the edge of his teeth, he looked around and saw - with that great sense for the central fact we all adore in our commander and chief - that defending the state of Alabama was just the ticket, and learning how to pilot an jet would calm his too macho and daring heart. I see what you are talking about now! Are great leaders just like this? Even in their youth, when you look at it, they are always out there on the hazardous frontier. I myself would quail before the very thought - in 1971, who knew what dangers lurked around the corner for Bama? But I, and I daresay you, are lesser mortals. Not made of the right stuff. I like this story! In a sense, it is true for Cheney too. He saw that the real battles, where the blood means something and a man can prove himself, was as a paper pusher in D.C. Not many people are even aware of the cuts you can get from some of that paper. Oh, it is sharp, let nobody tell you different. The loungers and slackers at Danang were getting free beer and bong hits, while Dick was risking forefinger and thumb for his country - cause he has always been about being all out. George and Dick, brave then, and even braver now. Tim, throughout this thread I wasn’t clear about your point. But then it dawned on me. You saw what Bush was up to! The young George Bush was turning up his nose at the mild dangers offered by Vietnam, a pitiful shirking of the extreme risk he craved. To get that buzz, to get that something that would help him live at the edge of his teeth, he looked around and saw – with that great sense for the central fact we all adore in our commander and chief – that defending the state of Alabama was just the ticket, and learning how to pilot an jet would calm his too macho and daring heart. I see what you are talking about now! Are great leaders just like this? Even in their youth, when you look at it, they are always out there on the hazardous frontier. I myself would quail before the very thought – in 1971, who knew what dangers lurked around the corner for Bama? But I, and I daresay you, are lesser mortals. Not made of the right stuff.

I like this story! In a sense, it is true for Cheney too. He saw that the real battles, where the blood means something and a man can prove himself, was as a paper pusher in D.C. Not many people are even aware of the cuts you can get from some of that paper. Oh, it is sharp, let nobody tell you different. The loungers and slackers at Danang were getting free beer and bong hits, while Dick was risking forefinger and thumb for his country – cause he has always been about being all out.

George and Dick, brave then, and even braver now.

]]> By: Barry http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/comment-page-3/#comment-207856 Barry Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:57:33 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/#comment-207856 "I think the lower-class American right-wingers don’t really care that the swells lied us into a war…but Beauchamp is a class traitor, an unforgivable sin. With the unions in decline, the military is all they got." Posted by alphi That's the whole theme of the posts - the people parsing every word of Beauchamp's are, probably without exception, people who've eagerly swallowed vast lies from the administration. “I think the lower-class American right-wingers don’t really care that the swells lied us into a war…but Beauchamp is a class traitor, an unforgivable sin.

With the unions in decline, the military is all they got.”

Posted by alphi

That’s the whole theme of the posts – the people parsing every word of Beauchamp’s are, probably without exception, people who’ve eagerly swallowed vast lies from the administration.

]]> By: Barry http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/comment-page-3/#comment-207855 Barry Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:54:26 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/#comment-207855 Tim Worstall: "Given that I’m English he’s not “my president”..." Tim, the man has the power to order you imprisoned forever and tortured, purely at his will. Tim Worstall: “Given that I’m English he’s not “my president”…”

Tim, the man has the power to order you imprisoned forever and tortured, purely at his will.

]]> By: Barry http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/comment-page-3/#comment-207854 Barry Tue, 21 Aug 2007 10:52:34 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/08/19/beaucoup-de-beauchamp/#comment-207854 93, aaron:"You need to spell out for me what your critisism of the Pollak and O’Hanlon piece is." Perhaps reading the article up top there, before the comments, would be useful. 93, aaron:”You need to spell out for me what your critisism of the Pollak and O’Hanlon piece is.”

Perhaps reading the article up top there, before the comments, would be useful.

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