…I should probably remove The Editors from that list; he was ambivalent at best.

I prefer “incoherent”.

100% of the apparently smart originally pro-war bloggers, whether left or right have done some serious reassessment of that position.

Those who haven’t, of either stripe, appear to fit the first definition of “apparently smart” better than the one you chose to go with.

I’m no blogger, but I am a formerly pro-war Republican who had always saw myself as moderately “right” who feels strongly about this.

I would only add that, for some (at least for me) much of the passion comes from the reaction we got from the 28% to our initial second-thoughts. I had never before experienced anything like it. I know it’s immature but one gets mad after being called names for things one is not guilty of. But, truthfully, it’s more about guilt than anger – I never should have questioned the patriotism of others.

I’m not blogger, but I am a foremrly “pro-war” guy who also always, until recently, considered myself on the “right” and I think I can give two big reasons for this.

1) Guilt. The Pro-War Left could at least assuage some guilt by thinking that, while they may have supported the “right” on this issue, they were not part of it and did not support it in general. We cannot do that. We supported this issue. We supported them in general. We helped make this disaster and its therefore a point of honor to stand up to the true nature of what we supported.

2)Personal Resentment. Most Leftists, no matter how pro-war, probably were never surprised/offended by being called a “Rino” or a “leftist”. Like many lifelong Republicans who were solidly pro-war right up to the invasion, I was absolutely astounded to find that the moment I began to question some of the Presidents policies – especially the policy to write all the violence off as the “last throes of dead enders” that required no serious re-evaluation of strategy – I got treated like I was a lifelong, anti-war, socialist, member of ANSWER.

3)Patriotic Resentment. We care more about our country than our party and these guys are RUINING our country on EVERY front. A lot of people say “Iraq was unwinable” but the truth is that we will never know because these guys made decisions almost designed to wreck any chance we may have had. They did more to objectively undermine this country than anyone else.

Anyone who saw the way the administration behaved in the lead-up to this war and didn’t think it was going to spread to the rest of their actions is a blind fool. Anyone who cannot look at history, and think “oh yeah, some important principles tend to get trampled on the road to a cabinet war” is an idiot.

A million dead iraqis later, I have no patience or respect for these people.

But is it possible for anyone to “appear to be smart” from what they have said on the internet? I am coming round to the view that the most one should hope for from a blog comments discussion is to come away with one’s temper and sanity intact.

Well, yes, the soi disant Decent Left. Plus a lot of people who were still understandably angry at 9/11, but who changed their mind as soon as they gave themselves time to think. The “Decents” are now either anti-war or openly right wing.

Very funny. Haha.

So for while, after the war was unofficially announced by Cheney in August 2002, a lot of the left-of- center bloggers were pro-war?

That’s interesting and merits its own analysis, or has that already been done by someone?

Don’t be an asshole. If you had any familiarity with Cole’s writings, you’d know that the clown show in question was his tipping point – where (in this context) the realization that policy was dead, and partisan gain was prime. If you want to call him dumb for not noticing it earlier, do so, but I personally think that’s unfair. Cole’s a smart guy. There are good reasons to stick with your tribe even when you disagree with what it does, up to a point. We all have our points, and they are all different.

thanks; I am very glad to hear that. But may I say:

my reaction to your reaction was itself an over-reaction

Between my post and yours, this is starting to achieve a beauty most sublime.

And yeah, you’re right. Even my favourite gang of idiots in the world can take a very hard line against people who were pro-, or at least not anti-, war from the start. Given my own history, that hurts. It’s gratifying to see that somebody who, SFAICT, was never bamboozled sees the same thing.