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	<title>Comments on: Sally Haslanger on Women in Philosophy</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Roughtheory.org &#187; Gender and the Culture of Academic Philosophy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/comment-page-2/#comment-210691</link>
		<dc:creator>Roughtheory.org &#187; Gender and the Culture of Academic Philosophy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 00:50:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/#comment-210691</guid>
		<description>[...] discussions at Inside Higher Education, Lumpenprofessoriat, and Crooked Timber are also worth a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] discussions at Inside Higher Education, Lumpenprofessoriat, and Crooked Timber are also worth a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mark van Roojen</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/comment-page-2/#comment-210460</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark van Roojen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/#comment-210460</guid>
		<description>On the social vs. anti-social point. My own experience at a very good graduate department was that I learned more from the other students than from the professors -- and this is no complaint about the professors.  I was more willing to try out possibly dumb ideas with the other students and as a result I got more correction there than I did in interactions with faculty. The faculty at my graduate department were largely responsible for creating the environment that worked this way by treating us better than any other department at that university treated graduate students at the time. (This is not to say there were not problems on occasion but that the department did work at creating a good environment.)

Any department that does not think about the climate it is creating for its students is ignoring a factor which is highly relevant to the education its students receive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>On the social vs. anti-social point. My own experience at a very good graduate department was that I learned more from the other students than from the professors&#8212;and this is no complaint about the professors.  I was more willing to try out possibly dumb ideas with the other students and as a result I got more correction there than I did in interactions with faculty. The faculty at my graduate department were largely responsible for creating the environment that worked this way by treating us better than any other department at that university treated graduate students at the time. (This is not to say there were not problems on occasion but that the department did work at creating a good environment.)</p>

	<p>Any department that does not think about the climate it is creating for its students is ignoring a factor which is highly relevant to the education its students receive.</p>
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		<title>By: Allan Hazlett</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/comment-page-2/#comment-210324</link>
		<dc:creator>Allan Hazlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 18:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/#comment-210324</guid>
		<description>Although &lt;i&gt;Journal of Philosophy&lt;/i&gt; isn&#039;t blind refereed,  the other journals mentioned in Haslanger&#039;s table all at least claim to be.  Assume they&#039;re living up to their claims.  It&#039;s weird, then, that the percentage of women in philosophy departments (18%) is higher than the percentage of papers published by women in the journals (12%).  If philosophers (i.e. journal referees, and people on hiring and admissions committees) are generally biased against women, wouldn&#039;t the journal number be higher than the faculty number?  I would have thought it would be easier to discriminate against women during the &quot;non-blind&quot; hiring process than it is to discriminate against women in the blind refereeing process.

We shouldn&#039;t ignore a possible explanation of this: that affirmative action is (in one respect) &lt;i&gt;working&lt;/i&gt;.  Women are doing better in the non-blind hiring process than they are in the blind refereeing process, because there are rules in the hiring process in place to ensure fairness, and (additionally) hiring and admissions committees are interested in making their faculties more diverse.  Many (I would &lt;i&gt;guess&lt;/i&gt; most) philosophy departments are trying to diversify their faculty and student populations by actively seeking out qualified women.    

That&#039;s compatible both with the existence and non-existence of unconscious discrimination in blind refereeing (of the sort &lt;a href=&quot;http://tar.weatherson.org/2007/09/05/women-in-philosophy-and-journals/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;described by Brian W.&lt;/a&gt; at his blog).  It&#039;s compatible, as well, with the possibility (hinted at by Brian) that the percentage of papers published in philosophy by women is more or less the same as the percentage of papers submitted by women.

It seems to me that the big lesson of Haslanger&#039;s essay is this: the problem of sexism in philosophy, whatever it is, is not best explained by discriminatory hiring and admissions practices.

One might draw a further conclusion: that what all this shows is that affirmative action has &lt;i&gt;failed&lt;/i&gt;, in this respect: we&#039;ve got all these rules in place to prevent discrimination, and most departments are actively trying to diversify, but our departments still aren&#039;t diverse, especially our graduate student populations, and our journals are even less diverse, and women philosophers, with few exceptions, experience the sorts of things that Haslanger describes in the second section of her paper, on &quot;Outright Discrimination.&quot;  We could admit every woman who applies to our graduate programs, make sure every woman with a PhD has a tenure-track job, and (I suspect) this wouldn&#039;t do &lt;i&gt;anything&lt;/i&gt; significant to combat the problem of diversity in philosophy if we philosophers (both men and women) are all still sexists who treat women philosophers badly.  The worry: affirmative action isn&#039;t doing anything to change us, in the ways that we need to be changed for sexism (both in philosophy and elsewhere) to go away.  (Not that that tells us what would change us, but at least we&#039;d know what doesn&#039;t work.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Although <i>Journal of Philosophy</i> isn&#8217;t blind refereed,  the other journals mentioned in Haslanger&#8217;s table all at least claim to be.  Assume they&#8217;re living up to their claims.  It&#8217;s weird, then, that the percentage of women in philosophy departments (18%) is higher than the percentage of papers published by women in the journals (12%).  If philosophers (i.e. journal referees, and people on hiring and admissions committees) are generally biased against women, wouldn&#8217;t the journal number be higher than the faculty number?  I would have thought it would be easier to discriminate against women during the &#8220;non-blind&#8221; hiring process than it is to discriminate against women in the blind refereeing process.</p>

	<p>We shouldn&#8217;t ignore a possible explanation of this: that affirmative action is (in one respect) <i>working</i>.  Women are doing better in the non-blind hiring process than they are in the blind refereeing process, because there are rules in the hiring process in place to ensure fairness, and (additionally) hiring and admissions committees are interested in making their faculties more diverse.  Many (I would <i>guess</i> most) philosophy departments are trying to diversify their faculty and student populations by actively seeking out qualified women.</p>

	<p>That&#8217;s compatible both with the existence and non-existence of unconscious discrimination in blind refereeing (of the sort <a href="http://tar.weatherson.org/2007/09/05/women-in-philosophy-and-journals/" rel="nofollow">described by Brian W.</a> at his blog).  It&#8217;s compatible, as well, with the possibility (hinted at by Brian) that the percentage of papers published in philosophy by women is more or less the same as the percentage of papers submitted by women.</p>

	<p>It seems to me that the big lesson of Haslanger&#8217;s essay is this: the problem of sexism in philosophy, whatever it is, is not best explained by discriminatory hiring and admissions practices.</p>

	<p>One might draw a further conclusion: that what all this shows is that affirmative action has <i>failed</i>, in this respect: we&#8217;ve got all these rules in place to prevent discrimination, and most departments are actively trying to diversify, but our departments still aren&#8217;t diverse, especially our graduate student populations, and our journals are even less diverse, and women philosophers, with few exceptions, experience the sorts of things that Haslanger describes in the second section of her paper, on &#8220;Outright Discrimination.&#8221;  We could admit every woman who applies to our graduate programs, make sure every woman with a PhD has a tenure-track job, and (I suspect) this wouldn&#8217;t do <i>anything</i> significant to combat the problem of diversity in philosophy if we philosophers (both men and women) are all still sexists who treat women philosophers badly.  The worry: affirmative action isn&#8217;t doing anything to change us, in the ways that we need to be changed for sexism (both in philosophy and elsewhere) to go away.  (Not that that tells us what would change us, but at least we&#8217;d know what doesn&#8217;t work.)</p>
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		<title>By: Haslanger and Refereeing Procedures &#171; Feminist Philosophers</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/comment-page-2/#comment-210243</link>
		<dc:creator>Haslanger and Refereeing Procedures &#171; Feminist Philosophers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/#comment-210243</guid>
		<description>[...]  (If you&#8217;d like a discussion of the importance of diversity in both faculty and students, go here.  If you&#8217;d like a discussion of gendered metaphors, styles, and behaviour in philosophy, go [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] &#160;(If you&#8217;d like a discussion of the importance of diversity in both faculty and students, go here. &#160;If you&#8217;d like a discussion of gendered metaphors, styles, and behaviour in philosophy, go [...]</p>
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		<title>By: a sentient being</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/comment-page-2/#comment-210191</link>
		<dc:creator>a sentient being</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2007 22:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/#comment-210191</guid>
		<description>In response to 52:

It&#039;s hard to know what to make of this response, Sally, except that you&#039;re an elitist. While you&#039;re right that the analytic depts dominate the Leiter rankings, most active philosophers in North America -- if you deign to include the ones in the minor departments -- are non-analytic. And perhaps even most practising philosophers are women, and they have an easier time in those downmarket departments. I don&#039;t speak with authority on this matter. But it&#039;s worth YOUR taking it seriously since you pretend to be speaking for philosophy as a discipline. In fact, I might be so bold as to suggest that philosophy&#039;s recent fixation on the Leiter Report has only exacerbated the alpha-male tendency in the field, which you yourself seem have to have gotten sucked into. Put it this way: Suppose you were to find that gender relations were more equitable in lower ranked departments, would you be willing to move to one of them in a geographically hospitable location? Or, have I missed your strategy for reversing the gender bias endemic to the top ranked departments?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In response to 52:</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s hard to know what to make of this response, Sally, except that you&#8217;re an elitist. While you&#8217;re right that the analytic depts dominate the Leiter rankings, most active philosophers in North America&#8212;if you deign to include the ones in the minor departments&#8212;are non-analytic. And perhaps even most practising philosophers are women, and they have an easier time in those downmarket departments. I don&#8217;t speak with authority on this matter. But it&#8217;s worth <span class="caps">YOUR</span> taking it seriously since you pretend to be speaking for philosophy as a discipline. In fact, I might be so bold as to suggest that philosophy&#8217;s recent fixation on the Leiter Report has only exacerbated the alpha-male tendency in the field, which you yourself seem have to have gotten sucked into. Put it this way: Suppose you were to find that gender relations were more equitable in lower ranked departments, would you be willing to move to one of them in a geographically hospitable location? Or, have I missed your strategy for reversing the gender bias endemic to the top ranked departments?</p>
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		<title>By: carole lee</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/comment-page-2/#comment-210164</link>
		<dc:creator>carole lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2007 19:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/#comment-210164</guid>
		<description>At the Cog Sci conference this summer, Christian Schunn presented research demonstrating that a powerful factor for continued, longer term collaboration among Cog Sci researchers turned out to be individual researchers&#039; feelings of being respected and treated as an equal in their collaborative relationships.  If this factor/feeling plays a large part in an individual&#039;s continued intellectual commitment to a discipline (and not just a project), then culture alone would be sufficient to drive women and minorities out of philosophy.

Christian said (in his capacity as a previous Cog Sci editor) that philosophers do not have a large presence in the Cog Sci community because they &quot;eat their young:&quot; philosophers&#039; peer-reviews of submitted paper/talk proposals are so negative that the Cog Sci editors don&#039;t know whether to include the poorly reviewed papers or not.  To me, Haslanger&#039;s comparison between the representation of women in Cog Sci versus philosophy is interesting because, although both can be quite analytical and abstract, there is, apparently, a clear difference in culture between these disciplines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>At the Cog Sci conference this summer, Christian Schunn presented research demonstrating that a powerful factor for continued, longer term collaboration among Cog Sci researchers turned out to be individual researchers&#8217; feelings of being respected and treated as an equal in their collaborative relationships.  If this factor/feeling plays a large part in an individual&#8217;s continued intellectual commitment to a discipline (and not just a project), then culture alone would be sufficient to drive women and minorities out of philosophy.</p>

	<p>Christian said (in his capacity as a previous Cog Sci editor) that philosophers do not have a large presence in the Cog Sci community because they &#8220;eat their young:&#8221; philosophers&#8217; peer-reviews of submitted paper/talk proposals are so negative that the Cog Sci editors don&#8217;t know whether to include the poorly reviewed papers or not.  To me, Haslanger&#8217;s comparison between the representation of women in Cog Sci versus philosophy is interesting because, although both can be quite analytical and abstract, there is, apparently, a clear difference in culture between these disciplines.</p>
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		<title>By: harry b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/comment-page-2/#comment-210137</link>
		<dc:creator>harry b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2007 14:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/#comment-210137</guid>
		<description>leederick, good, I&#039;m glad that, contrary to your previous comment, you believe that teaching is important. But as shannon and lindsey and brucetta say, one major difference is how we conceive of philosophy as an activity (I don&#039;t know who you are, so don&#039;t know whether you&#039;re a philosopher or not). I conceive of it as fundamentally cooperative. Some of the cooperation is done with dead people (with their presumed permission). I think that whether one learns to do that well depends on a host of factors including one&#039;s social environment in grad school. 

I don&#039;t know how well I&#039;d have learned (or thriven in my pre-tenure years) if I&#039;d had to cope with the behavior that Sally describes, that I have heard many times from others (including some of these commenters) and occasionally observed myself. Maybe it would have been a brilliant spur to my own determination. I&#039;m glad I haven&#039;t had to find out, and don&#039;t really think of that as revealing that I&#039;m co-dependent or otherwise unusually psychologically flawed. 

I said in my post that reversing the roles doesn&#039;t aid the imagination much. But here&#039;s an experience I have had -- that of being the sole father in a group of parents of toddlers. I think the women involved actually wanted to be welcoming to a man (a friend of mine kept bringing me along). But in fact it was very uncomfortable for me (and, I think, for them). In this case, not especially important for me or them; but in the case of grad school, a good deal more so. 

Not, of course, as important as eliminating poverty, or averting or stopping terrible wars, or many other great evils. And of course, if you&#039;re in no position to improve the quality of a workplace, but are just on the receiving end of prejudice/slights/discrimination/harrassment/etc, then borealis&#039;s attitude is probably a good one to adopt. But I&#039;m not on the receiving end of any of that, and like most tenured academics Sally and I both have some ability to influence the quality of the environment in our own departments, and, through papers like hers and discussions like this, in others. Indifference would, again, be very convenient for us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>leederick, good, I&#8217;m glad that, contrary to your previous comment, you believe that teaching is important. But as shannon and lindsey and brucetta say, one major difference is how we conceive of philosophy as an activity (I don&#8217;t know who you are, so don&#8217;t know whether you&#8217;re a philosopher or not). I conceive of it as fundamentally cooperative. Some of the cooperation is done with dead people (with their presumed permission). I think that whether one learns to do that well depends on a host of factors including one&#8217;s social environment in grad school.</p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t know how well I&#8217;d have learned (or thriven in my pre-tenure years) if I&#8217;d had to cope with the behavior that Sally describes, that I have heard many times from others (including some of these commenters) and occasionally observed myself. Maybe it would have been a brilliant spur to my own determination. I&#8217;m glad I haven&#8217;t had to find out, and don&#8217;t really think of that as revealing that I&#8217;m co-dependent or otherwise unusually psychologically flawed.</p>

	<p>I said in my post that reversing the roles doesn&#8217;t aid the imagination much. But here&#8217;s an experience I have had&#8212;that of being the sole father in a group of parents of toddlers. I think the women involved actually wanted to be welcoming to a man (a friend of mine kept bringing me along). But in fact it was very uncomfortable for me (and, I think, for them). In this case, not especially important for me or them; but in the case of grad school, a good deal more so.</p>

	<p>Not, of course, as important as eliminating poverty, or averting or stopping terrible wars, or many other great evils. And of course, if you&#8217;re in no position to improve the quality of a workplace, but are just on the receiving end of prejudice/slights/discrimination/harrassment/etc, then borealis&#8217;s attitude is probably a good one to adopt. But I&#8217;m not on the receiving end of any of that, and like most tenured academics Sally and I both have some ability to influence the quality of the environment in our own departments, and, through papers like hers and discussions like this, in others. Indifference would, again, be very convenient for us.</p>
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		<title>By: sally</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/comment-page-2/#comment-210098</link>
		<dc:creator>sally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Sep 2007 03:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/#comment-210098</guid>
		<description>Because I&#039;m only able to catch up on the thread occasionally, I&#039;m going to respond to a several posts at once:

#34: I &quot;bang on&quot; about analytic philosophy departments because I am an analytic philosopher and I love analytic philosophy.  It is also the dominant paradigm in the US (and the UK and Australia) and is the focus of all of the top graduate schools.  I myself am interested in and sympathetic to some non-analytic philosophy, but insofar as one can generalize about anglophone professional philosophy, one is generalizing about analytic philosophy.  And I haven&#039;t noticed that women are doing better in philosophy programs in Europe; rather, they are doing much worse.  So it is not plausible to me that once we get away from analytic methods, everything is fine.

#35: Backlash against &quot;assumed&quot; lowering of standards by affirmative action is a serious problem.  If the studies of evaluation bias are correct, however, then the current standards for men that enable them to fill the academic ranks are actually lowered compared to the standards women are held to.  So we already have &quot;affirmative action&quot; for men.  Although I support some affirmative action policies (for women and minorities) I worry that imposing  affirmative action &quot;from the outside,&quot; can backfire. I&#039;d like to see more education about evaluation bias, stereotype threat, etc. so admissions committees, referees, search committees, can be more accurate in their evaluations.  A model of this has been developed at the University of Michigan through the NSF ADVANCE program.
#38: It is an illusion to think that only the over-sensitive or inexperienced (or academics) suffer from the effects of stereotype threat and solo status.  In the studies I cite, the subjects are not graduate students/academics.  These studies show that white men also suffer cognitive difficulties when they are &quot;solos&quot;.  &quot;Being treated identically as their peers&quot; is not the issue; learning to chuckle at outrageous comments is not the solution.  Social class membership makes a difference to one&#039;s performance in relation to others whether you are male or female, White or non-White, academic or non-academic.  The effects are not trivial. If we want women and minorities to gain access to contexts now dominated by white males, we have to deal with this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Because I&#8217;m only able to catch up on the thread occasionally, I&#8217;m going to respond to a several posts at once:</p>

	<p>#34: I &#8220;bang on&#8221; about analytic philosophy departments because I am an analytic philosopher and I love analytic philosophy.  It is also the dominant paradigm in the <span class="caps">US </span>(and the UK and Australia) and is the focus of all of the top graduate schools.  I myself am interested in and sympathetic to some non-analytic philosophy, but insofar as one can generalize about anglophone professional philosophy, one is generalizing about analytic philosophy.  And I haven&#8217;t noticed that women are doing better in philosophy programs in Europe; rather, they are doing much worse.  So it is not plausible to me that once we get away from analytic methods, everything is fine.</p>

	<p>#35: Backlash against &#8220;assumed&#8221; lowering of standards by affirmative action is a serious problem.  If the studies of evaluation bias are correct, however, then the current standards for men that enable them to fill the academic ranks are actually lowered compared to the standards women are held to.  So we already have &#8220;affirmative action&#8221; for men.  Although I support some affirmative action policies (for women and minorities) I worry that imposing  affirmative action &#8220;from the outside,&#8221; can backfire. I&#8217;d like to see more education about evaluation bias, stereotype threat, etc. so admissions committees, referees, search committees, can be more accurate in their evaluations.  A model of this has been developed at the University of Michigan through the <span class="caps">NSF ADVANCE</span> program.</p>
	<p>#38: It is an illusion to think that only the over-sensitive or inexperienced (or academics) suffer from the effects of stereotype threat and solo status.  In the studies I cite, the subjects are not graduate students/academics.  These studies show that white men also suffer cognitive difficulties when they are &#8220;solos&#8221;.  &#8220;Being treated identically as their peers&#8221; is not the issue; learning to chuckle at outrageous comments is not the solution.  Social class membership makes a difference to one&#8217;s performance in relation to others whether you are male or female, White or non-White, academic or non-academic.  The effects are not trivial. If we want women and minorities to gain access to contexts now dominated by white males, we have to deal with this.</p>
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		<title>By: Brucetta</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/comment-page-2/#comment-210088</link>
		<dc:creator>Brucetta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 22:51:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/#comment-210088</guid>
		<description>Shannon and Lindsey have it exactly right.
Philosophy &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; discursive.  Almost all good research is produced through dialogue with other philosophers.  A very important part of training as a professional philosopher is learning how to engage constructively in this dialogue.  Would-be philosophers need to learn how to ask good questions, how to defend their ideas and how to handle discussion without being defensive or threatened.  This takes &lt;i&gt;practice&lt;/i&gt;.  But it&#039;s difficult to get that practice when you feel marginalised, and when your attempts to join discussions are ignored or shouldered out.
(I had a few very strange moments once I left graduate school: I would say something in a group discussion, and my colleagues would &lt;i&gt;turn around and listen to me!&lt;/i&gt;  It was like having loud music turned off while you&#039;re trying to shout over it.  Still doesn&#039;t happen all the time, but it&#039;s a wonderful improvement).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Shannon and Lindsey have it exactly right.<br />
Philosophy <i>is</i> discursive.  Almost all good research is produced through dialogue with other philosophers.  A very important part of training as a professional philosopher is learning how to engage constructively in this dialogue.  Would-be philosophers need to learn how to ask good questions, how to defend their ideas and how to handle discussion without being defensive or threatened.  This takes <i>practice</i>.  But it&#8217;s difficult to get that practice when you feel marginalised, and when your attempts to join discussions are ignored or shouldered out.<br />
(I had a few very strange moments once I left graduate school: I would say something in a group discussion, and my colleagues would <i>turn around and listen to me!</i>  It was like having loud music turned off while you&#8217;re trying to shout over it.  Still doesn&#8217;t happen all the time, but it&#8217;s a wonderful improvement).</p>
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		<title>By: John Protevi</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-210082</link>
		<dc:creator>John Protevi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 21:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/#comment-210082</guid>
		<description>beings! in the plural! like human beings! who occasionally proofread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>beings! in the plural! like human beings! who occasionally proofread.</p>
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		<title>By: John Protevi</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-210081</link>
		<dc:creator>John Protevi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 21:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/#comment-210081</guid>
		<description>of course, if your point was about the world that socialized being inhabit, your comment was right on, lindsey.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>of course, if your point was about the world that socialized being inhabit, your comment was right on, lindsey.</p>
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		<title>By: lindsey</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-210078</link>
		<dc:creator>lindsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 20:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/#comment-210078</guid>
		<description>oh that&#039;s right. my bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>oh that&#8217;s right. my bad.</p>
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		<title>By: John Protevi</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-210076</link>
		<dc:creator>John Protevi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 20:24:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/#comment-210076</guid>
		<description>shannon, lindsey, don&#039;t you get it? leederick doesn&#039;t need other people. if they would only leave him alone, he would think so much more clearly. what a wonderful world it would be for him if everyone would just fuck off and die already and leave him in peace with the library. oh, and his supervisor too. he can stay. until the degree, at least. then he can go. sorry, but he needs his peace and quiet so he can do his work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>shannon, lindsey, don&#8217;t you get it? leederick doesn&#8217;t need other people. if they would only leave him alone, he would think so much more clearly. what a wonderful world it would be for him if everyone would just fuck off and die already and leave him in peace with the library. oh, and his supervisor too. he can stay. until the degree, at least. then he can go. sorry, but he needs his peace and quiet so he can do his work.</p>
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		<title>By: lindsey</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-210064</link>
		<dc:creator>lindsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 19:05:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/#comment-210064</guid>
		<description>I think shannon has it right.  In undergraduate philo classes, the amount I took away from the class was directly related to the type of atmosphere the students created.  Some courses had wonderful teachers, but the other students weren&#039;t forthcoming with thier ideas/etc.  In others, the students were open and critical and honest, and that&#039;s when the most intellectual growth took place (for me, the other students, and probably the professor).  So if women and minorities feel like they can&#039;t freely participate, then &lt;b&gt;everyone&lt;/b&gt; suffers.  It&#039;s not just the women/minorities who need the enviroment to be open and welcoming, but also the white/males who would otherwise not benefit from their contribution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I think shannon has it right.  In undergraduate philo classes, the amount I took away from the class was directly related to the type of atmosphere the students created.  Some courses had wonderful teachers, but the other students weren&#8217;t forthcoming with thier ideas/etc.  In others, the students were open and critical and honest, and that&#8217;s when the most intellectual growth took place (for me, the other students, and probably the professor).  So if women and minorities feel like they can&#8217;t freely participate, then <b>everyone</b> suffers.  It&#8217;s not just the women/minorities who need the enviroment to be open and welcoming, but also the white/males who would otherwise not benefit from their contribution.</p>
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		<title>By: shannon</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/comment-page-1/#comment-210061</link>
		<dc:creator>shannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/06/sally-haslanger-on-women-in-philosophy/#comment-210061</guid>
		<description>i&#039;m not sure if this is what sally haslanger&#039;s point was, but here&#039;s what i take harry&#039;s point to be (if it&#039;s not your point, harry, it&#039;s at least compatible with your point): philosophy is inherently social.  it&#039;s a dialectic.  even if a philosopher writes alone, the philosophy written is part of a dialectic with other philosophers.  thus, doing philosophy is social.  one benefits academically from being in an environment that is conducive to such dialectical exchanges.  (e.g., reading groups, exchanging papers with colleagues, discussing your blossoming ideas with fellow philosophers.)  if you want your graduate students to do well, then you&#039;ll try to provide such an environment.  the point is not that admissions committees ought to cater to the emotional needs of graduate students.  the point is that graduate students in philosophy (and professors of philosophy!) will do better if they are in a supportive social environment.  they will benefit from being able to freely and openly discuss their ideas.  and, unsurprisingly, women and non-whites feel more able to freely and openly discuss ideas when there are more women and non-whites (respectively) around.  so, admissions committees should try to provide a supportive social environment in which people freely and openly discuss their ideas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>i&#8217;m not sure if this is what sally haslanger&#8217;s point was, but here&#8217;s what i take harry&#8217;s point to be (if it&#8217;s not your point, harry, it&#8217;s at least compatible with your point): philosophy is inherently social.  it&#8217;s a dialectic.  even if a philosopher writes alone, the philosophy written is part of a dialectic with other philosophers.  thus, doing philosophy is social.  one benefits academically from being in an environment that is conducive to such dialectical exchanges.  (e.g., reading groups, exchanging papers with colleagues, discussing your blossoming ideas with fellow philosophers.)  if you want your graduate students to do well, then you&#8217;ll try to provide such an environment.  the point is not that admissions committees ought to cater to the emotional needs of graduate students.  the point is that graduate students in philosophy (and professors of philosophy!) will do better if they are in a supportive social environment.  they will benefit from being able to freely and openly discuss their ideas.  and, unsurprisingly, women and non-whites feel more able to freely and openly discuss ideas when there are more women and non-whites (respectively) around.  so, admissions committees should try to provide a supportive social environment in which people freely and openly discuss their ideas.</p>
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