Comments on: The Invention of Tradition http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:42:59 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Grand Moff Texan http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-210321 Grand Moff Texan Mon, 10 Sep 2007 17:39:10 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/#comment-210321 <i>I wonder why the haka hasn’t been exported and become a craze in other Western countries?</i> Ever since the Lambada, they've been a bit more circumspect about these kinds of things. . I wonder why the haka hasn’t been exported and become a craze in other Western countries?

Ever since the Lambada, they’ve been a bit more circumspect about these kinds of things.
.

]]> By: stostosto http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-210244 stostosto Mon, 10 Sep 2007 08:38:12 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/#comment-210244 I wonder why the haka hasn't been exported and become a craze in other Western countries? I mean we have the samba, the tango, the tai chi and karate and jiu-jitsu, to say nothing of all the American imports from jitterbug to disco, hip-hop, and line dance. I can easily see the haka being offered here as a course on what we call "the evening school" to be performed on local town festivals. Or maybe I'm wrong and it has actually been tried but hasn't caught on? Or maybe it has caught on but I just haven't noticed? I wonder why the haka hasn’t been exported and become a craze in other Western countries? I mean we have the samba, the tango, the tai chi and karate and jiu-jitsu, to say nothing of all the American imports from jitterbug to disco, hip-hop, and line dance. I can easily see the haka being offered here as a course on what we call “the evening school” to be performed on local town festivals.

Or maybe I’m wrong and it has actually been tried but hasn’t caught on? Or maybe it has caught on but I just haven’t noticed?

]]> By: Quo Vadis http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-210205 Quo Vadis Mon, 10 Sep 2007 01:51:17 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/#comment-210205 What these Texans lack in choreography, their front man makes up for in ferocity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8VUbjcj7pM What these Texans lack in choreography, their front man makes up for in ferocity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8VUbjcj7pM

]]> By: Idiot/Savant http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-210108 Idiot/Savant Sun, 09 Sep 2007 04:51:12 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/#comment-210108 <i>Have we really had 40 comments without anyone mentioning <a HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmy6OaZEAhE" rel="nofollow">this</a>?</i> Or <a HREF="http://www.bakeryoftheyear.co.nz/net/best-bakery/gingerbread-video.aspx" rel="nofollow">this</a>? Have we really had 40 comments without anyone mentioning this?

Or this?

]]> By: Idiot/Savant http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-210107 Idiot/Savant Sun, 09 Sep 2007 04:46:53 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/#comment-210107 <i>the haka predates the military in New Zealand, is mostly performed outside the Army by civilians, and is perfectly likely to appear as a demonstration of support for people and groups opposed to authority.</i> Hell yes. Haka are a common feature of anti-government protests. The Hikoi against the <a HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_foreshore_and_seabed_controversy" rel="nofollow">foreshore and seabed bill</a> had a particularly impressive protest march, culminating with a haka outside Parliament. The "enough is enough" march by Destiny Church's black-clad stormtroopers (which was likened by bystanders to "a Nuremberg Rally") did it as well. Schools do it, gangs do it, and drunk kiwis do it in London. It isn't a military thing at all. the haka predates the military in New Zealand, is mostly performed outside the Army by civilians, and is perfectly likely to appear as a demonstration of support for people and groups opposed to authority.

Hell yes. Haka are a common feature of anti-government protests. The Hikoi against the foreshore and seabed bill had a particularly impressive protest march, culminating with a haka outside Parliament. The “enough is enough” march by Destiny Church’s black-clad stormtroopers (which was likened by bystanders to “a Nuremberg Rally”) did it as well. Schools do it, gangs do it, and drunk kiwis do it in London. It isn’t a military thing at all.

]]> By: Kieran Healy http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-210104 Kieran Healy Sun, 09 Sep 2007 03:55:42 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/#comment-210104 <i>since they contradict each other</i> A concession to someone's reasonable point is not a contradiction, and it's not like my comment was posted under a different name from the post itself. since they contradict each other

A concession to someone’s reasonable point is not a contradiction, and it’s not like my comment was posted under a different name from the post itself.

]]> By: Joshua W. Burton http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-210103 Joshua W. Burton Sun, 09 Sep 2007 03:46:07 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/#comment-210103 Have we really had 40 comments without anyone mentioning <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmy6OaZEAhE" rel="nofollow">this</a>? Have we really had 40 comments without anyone mentioning this?

]]> By: Stephen Judd http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-210102 Stephen Judd Sun, 09 Sep 2007 03:43:30 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/#comment-210102 Can't you change the post title then? I saw comment 2 but didn't connect that the comment and the post were by the same author, since they contradict each other. Can’t you change the post title then? I saw comment 2 but didn’t connect that the comment and the post were by the same author, since they contradict each other.

]]> By: Kieran Healy http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-210101 Kieran Healy Sun, 09 Sep 2007 03:35:49 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/#comment-210101 <i>I am not sure exactly what “invention” might refer to here.</i> See comment 2. I am not sure exactly what “invention” might refer to here.

See comment 2.

]]> By: Stephen Judd http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-210096 Stephen Judd Sun, 09 Sep 2007 02:56:21 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/#comment-210096 The haka qua haka is much older than the All Blacks. And the All Blacks have been doing it for over <a href="http://www.haka.co.nz/haka.php" rel="nofollow">100 years</a>. I am not sure exactly what "invention" might refer to here. "an elaborate form of military athletics invented to give a sense of national togetherness." As the saying goes, this isn't even wrong. The poster hopelessly misconstrues two centuries' worth of cultural mixing. And the analogy is broken, in that the goose step is a purely military practice and has no life outside the military and state-sanctioned performance, whereas the haka predates the military in New Zealand, is mostly performed outside the Army by civilians, and is perfectly likely to appear as a demonstration of support for people and groups opposed to authority. In any case if any Maori cultural form were to be labelled military athletics, it would be mau rakau. The haka qua haka is much older than the All Blacks. And the All Blacks have been doing it for over 100 years. I am not sure exactly what “invention” might refer to here.

“an elaborate form of military athletics invented to give a sense of national togetherness.”

As the saying goes, this isn’t even wrong. The poster hopelessly misconstrues two centuries’ worth of cultural mixing. And the analogy is broken, in that the goose step is a purely military practice and has no life outside the military and state-sanctioned performance, whereas the haka predates the military in New Zealand, is mostly performed outside the Army by civilians, and is perfectly likely to appear as a demonstration of support for people and groups opposed to authority.

In any case if any Maori cultural form were to be labelled military athletics, it would be mau rakau.

]]> By: albert http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-210093 albert Sun, 09 Sep 2007 02:05:07 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/#comment-210093 Well, in the first test of dsquared's proposition. Italy turns their back on the haka and loses 76-14. It's one thing to snub it, but you've got to be able to back up your decision. Italian captain Azzurri: "I think we showed the All Blacks too much respect, especially at the beginning of the match." You lose like that, you show some respect. Well, in the first test of dsquared’s proposition. Italy turns their back on the haka and loses 76-14. It’s one thing to snub it, but you’ve got to be able to back up your decision.

Italian captain Azzurri: “I think we showed the All Blacks too much respect, especially at the beginning of the match.” You lose like that, you show some respect.

]]> By: Idiot/Savant http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-210089 Idiot/Savant Sat, 08 Sep 2007 23:30:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/#comment-210089 Yes, the 1979 team look like a bunch of muppets. Now they do it <i>properly</i> (and Kapa a Pango is a much scarier haka as well). The Tongans have the right response: do your own. Which is what I initially thought the irish were trying to do, in their funny way of only moving their feet. Idiot/savant (who hates rugby, but enjoys a good haka. Hell, it's pretty much our default national anthem). Yes, the 1979 team look like a bunch of muppets. Now they do it properly (and Kapa a Pango is a much scarier haka as well).

The Tongans have the right response: do your own. Which is what I initially thought the irish were trying to do, in their funny way of only moving their feet.

Idiot/savant
(who hates rugby, but enjoys a good haka. Hell, it’s pretty much our default national anthem).

]]> By: Keir http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-210087 Keir Sat, 08 Sep 2007 22:46:37 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/#comment-210087 One goat for <i>fifteen</i> guys. One goat for fifteen guys.

]]> By: the Other Paul http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-210073 the Other Paul Sat, 08 Sep 2007 20:04:49 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/#comment-210073 The Haka has also become a tradition for a high school football team in Texas with a lot of players of Tongan origin. Article here: http://www.trinitytrojanfootball.com/SB116364486631624627.html The Haka has also become a tradition for a high school football team in Texas with a lot of players of Tongan origin. Article here: http://www.trinitytrojanfootball.com/SB116364486631624627.html

]]> By: John Emerson http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/comment-page-1/#comment-210060 John Emerson Sat, 08 Sep 2007 18:21:04 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/08/the-invention-of-tradition/#comment-210060 The Welsh actually bring their goat ladyfriend on the field with them? One goat for eleven guys? Oh. My. God. That's intimidation. The Welsh actually bring their goat ladyfriend on the field with them? One goat for eleven guys?

Oh. My. God. That’s intimidation.

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