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	<title>Comments on: Details, details</title>
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	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/comment-page-1/#comment-210508</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 22:04:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/#comment-210508</guid>
		<description>I only know a few Swiss from the German part. Still, I object to stereotyping; certainly &#039;they&#039; do not hate each other. Those I know don&#039;t seem to hate anybody.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I only know a few Swiss from the German part. Still, I object to stereotyping; certainly &#8216;they&#8217; do not hate each other. Those I know don&#8217;t seem to hate anybody.</p>
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		<title>By: Mrs Tilton</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/comment-page-1/#comment-210501</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs Tilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:24:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/#comment-210501</guid>
		<description>Eszter @40,

the figures are pretty easy to come up with, as foreigners are required to register (and not only in CH). 

Yes, the ex-Yugoslav expats are &quot;white&quot;, whatever that means. The Blocherites&#039; stock in trade, though, isn&#039;t anything rational. It is fear of the Dark Other. Serbs etc. are quite dark enough for their purposes. If there were no Serbs available, I have no doubt the Swiss klansmen would press the Germans into service, for all that there is essentially no genetic difference between Deutschschwyzer (the primary vector of the illness) and, say, Swabians. 

(For those unfamiliar with the history of the Germanic peoples: the German-speaking Swiss and the Swabians descend from the same early Germanic group. As a result, of course, they hate each other. The standard German Swiss expression for a German -- any German, even the unrelated Prussians -- is &quot;chaibe Schwob&quot; -- or, very roughly, &quot;Swabian shite&quot;.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Eszter @40,</p>

	<p>the figures are pretty easy to come up with, as foreigners are required to register (and not only in CH).</p>

	<p>Yes, the ex-Yugoslav expats are &#8220;white&#8221;, whatever that means. The Blocherites&#8217; stock in trade, though, isn&#8217;t anything rational. It is fear of the Dark Other. Serbs etc. are quite dark enough for their purposes. If there were no Serbs available, I have no doubt the Swiss klansmen would press the Germans into service, for all that there is essentially no genetic difference between Deutschschwyzer (the primary vector of the illness) and, say, Swabians.</p>

	<p>(For those unfamiliar with the history of the Germanic peoples: the German-speaking Swiss and the Swabians descend from the same early Germanic group. As a result, of course, they hate each other. The standard German Swiss expression for a German&#8212;any German, even the unrelated Prussians&#8212;is &#8220;chaibe Schwob&#8221;&#8212;or, very roughly, &#8220;Swabian shite&#8221;.)</p>
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		<title>By: eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/comment-page-1/#comment-210499</link>
		<dc:creator>eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 21:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/#comment-210499</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I think that or another article I read about this says 20% of the population is foreign, I&#039;m not sure how they came up with that figure. 

I&#039;m assuming you&#039;re referring to the racist aspect of the poster. What&#039;s interesting, however, is that I think a lot of the immigrants people find troublesome come from the former Yugoslavia, which means that they tend to be white.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yeah, I think that or another article I read about this says 20% of the population is foreign, I&#8217;m not sure how they came up with that figure.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m assuming you&#8217;re referring to the racist aspect of the poster. What&#8217;s interesting, however, is that I think a lot of the immigrants people find troublesome come from the former Yugoslavia, which means that they tend to be white.</p>
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		<title>By: Mrs Tilton</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/comment-page-1/#comment-210414</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs Tilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 13:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/#comment-210414</guid>
		<description>Eszter @36,

you&#039;re right, the proposed law would impose &lt;i&gt;Sippenhaft&lt;/i&gt; only on foreigners (of which Switzerland has many). And the absolutely disgusting poster you link to makes it clear that the Blocherites are not thinking primarily of the Norwegian expat community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Eszter @36,</p>

	<p>you&#8217;re right, the proposed law would impose <i>Sippenhaft</i> only on foreigners (of which Switzerland has many). And the absolutely disgusting poster you link to makes it clear that the Blocherites are not thinking primarily of the Norwegian expat community.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/comment-page-1/#comment-210398</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/#comment-210398</guid>
		<description>Calvinism failed to conquer Lausanne completely. There are still signs of life there in that city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Calvinism failed to conquer Lausanne completely. There are still signs of life there in that city.</p>
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		<title>By: David Moles</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/comment-page-1/#comment-210388</link>
		<dc:creator>David Moles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:16:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/#comment-210388</guid>
		<description>abb1, for Geneva that should be &quot;carte&quot; and &quot;oui.&quot;

I just filled out a similar card in Luzern. Same problem, although I was more concerned with whether my traveling companion / recently-ex-girlfriend counted as &quot;family member&quot;.

(Oddly, no such card in Lausanne, though possibly the staff filled it out themselves.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>abb1, for Geneva that should be &#8220;carte&#8221; and &#8220;oui.&#8221;</p>

	<p>I just filled out a similar card in Luzern. Same problem, although I was more concerned with whether my traveling companion / recently-ex-girlfriend counted as &#8220;family member&#8221;.</p>

	<p>(Oddly, no such card in Lausanne, though possibly the staff filled it out themselves.)</p>
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		<title>By: Eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/comment-page-1/#comment-210387</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 10:15:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/#comment-210387</guid>
		<description>Glenn, my impression was (thirteen years ago when I lived there for a year) that it&#039;s easier to become a permanent resident in Switzerland than it is in the US.  If you&#039;d studied in the country for a certain number of years (seven, I think) you automatically got a Permit C, the equivalent of a US Green Card. In contrast, about ten years of legal student status in the US gave me the same amount of right to a Green Card as no such years: none.

The law you cite, however, sounds baffling. You forgot to mention that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/farright/story/0,,2160047,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;it seems&lt;/a&gt; it would only apply (it seems?) to immigrant families.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=105&amp;sid=1236811&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link to poster about suggested law&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Glenn, my impression was (thirteen years ago when I lived there for a year) that it&#8217;s easier to become a permanent resident in Switzerland than it is in the US.  If you&#8217;d studied in the country for a certain number of years (seven, I think) you automatically got a Permit C, the equivalent of a <span class="caps">US </span>Green Card. In contrast, about ten years of legal student status in the US gave me the same amount of right to a Green Card as no such years: none.</p>

	<p>The law you cite, however, sounds baffling. You forgot to mention that <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/farright/story/0,,2160047,00.html" rel="nofollow">it seems</a> it would only apply (it seems?) to immigrant families.</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?nid=105&#038;sid=1236811" rel="nofollow">link to poster about suggested law</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/comment-page-1/#comment-210371</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 07:51:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/#comment-210371</guid>
		<description>Ve haf vays of making you fill ze hotel kart. Ja.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ve haf vays of making you fill ze hotel kart. Ja.</p>
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		<title>By: Martha Bridegam</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/comment-page-1/#comment-210365</link>
		<dc:creator>Martha Bridegam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 04:54:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/#comment-210365</guid>
		<description>U.S. tax forms leave one blank for the earner&#039;s name at the top, so a married couple who are both earners have to bifurcate the space in a way that always feels jury-rigged and vaguely improper. Since, out of trained politeness and deference to convention, women tend to put their names second, the next year&#039;s tax forms tend to arrive addressed to the male partner. One more contribution to the overall picture that makes the female the auxiliary member of her partnership, or perhaps I mean the private member while the husband presents the household&#039;s public face to the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>U.S. tax forms leave one blank for the earner&#8217;s name at the top, so a married couple who are both earners have to bifurcate the space in a way that always feels jury-rigged and vaguely improper. Since, out of trained politeness and deference to convention, women tend to put their names second, the next year&#8217;s tax forms tend to arrive addressed to the male partner. One more contribution to the overall picture that makes the female the auxiliary member of her partnership, or perhaps I mean the private member while the husband presents the household&#8217;s public face to the world.</p>
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		<title>By: Glenn</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/comment-page-1/#comment-210357</link>
		<dc:creator>Glenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 00:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/#comment-210357</guid>
		<description>Switzerland is the toughest country in europe to become a citizen of.  Switz. is proposing a law whereby the families of minors who commit crimes can be automatically deported.  Yes, group punishment. 

So, the fact that one card is incompetently written (and probably hasn&#039;t been changed since the turn of the last century), is a minor crime by comparison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Switzerland is the toughest country in europe to become a citizen of.  Switz. is proposing a law whereby the families of minors who commit crimes can be automatically deported.  Yes, group punishment.</p>

	<p>So, the fact that one card is incompetently written (and probably hasn&#8217;t been changed since the turn of the last century), is a minor crime by comparison.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Catherine</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/comment-page-1/#comment-210305</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Catherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/#comment-210305</guid>
		<description>Yes, of course my name is in one sense my own, in the way that you describe it.  But I don&#039;t see myself as the sole and unique possessor of &quot;my&quot; name, any more than I see my husband as sole and unique proprietor of &quot;his&quot; name.  I haven&#039;t quite shaken the habit of understanding names in terms of kinship relations over time.  

We &lt;em&gt;could&lt;/em&gt; dispense with surnames altogether, and assign to each child at birth a unique alpha-numerical ID, or maybe a barcode label.  Sound silly?  Of course.  But so long as we continue with names, we are continuing with something that still speaks of family and kinship, and that still defines and places people in terms of some entity that is larger than merely the individual unit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yes, of course my name is in one sense my own, in the way that you describe it.  But I don&#8217;t see myself as the sole and unique possessor of &#8220;my&#8221; name, any more than I see my husband as sole and unique proprietor of &#8220;his&#8221; name.  I haven&#8217;t quite shaken the habit of understanding names in terms of kinship relations over time.</p>

	<p>We <em>could</em> dispense with surnames altogether, and assign to each child at birth a unique alpha-numerical ID, or maybe a barcode label.  Sound silly?  Of course.  But so long as we continue with names, we are continuing with something that still speaks of family and kinship, and that still defines and places people in terms of some entity that is larger than merely the individual unit.</p>
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		<title>By: Mrs Tilton</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/comment-page-1/#comment-210302</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs Tilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/#comment-210302</guid>
		<description>In the future, of course, we shall all have double-barrelled surnames: [sequence of mitochondrial DNA]-[sequence of father&#039;s Y chromosome].

Spaniards might wish to reverse the order.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In the future, of course, we shall all have double-barrelled surnames: [sequence of mitochondrial <span class="caps">DNA</span>]-[sequence of father&#8217;s Y chromosome].</p>

	<p>Spaniards might wish to reverse the order.</p>
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		<title>By: Katherine</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/comment-page-1/#comment-210296</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:03:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/#comment-210296</guid>
		<description>Well, Mary Catherine - your husband also got his name from his father, but society thinks of that as his name.  Your name is yours because it&#039;s been yours for your whole life, just like your husband.  Sure there is the history of the fact that, prior to our generation, chances are the name went down the male line, but there&#039;s not much we can do about that now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well, Mary Catherine &#8211; your husband also got his name from his father, but society thinks of that as his name.  Your name is yours because it&#8217;s been yours for your whole life, just like your husband.  Sure there is the history of the fact that, prior to our generation, chances are the name went down the male line, but there&#8217;s not much we can do about that now.</p>
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		<title>By: Mary Catherine</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/comment-page-1/#comment-210290</link>
		<dc:creator>Mary Catherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 14:54:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/#comment-210290</guid>
		<description>As a married woman, I also kept &quot;my own&quot; name.  The name I got from my father.  Which he got from his father, who got it from his father, and so on back through the mists of time.  Which doesn&#039;t quite do the trick of smashing the patriarchy, after all.  I suppose I could have given myself an entirely new name, but I&#039;ll confess I was not prepared to make such a radical departure.  

I understand what everyone finds so objectionable about this head of household business, and I share those objections.  At the same time, there&#039;s something about the tendency of this discussion that irks me a little bit.  The assumption of radically autonomous individuality, maybe, which expresses itself as an intolerance for any sort of acknowledgement of social embeddedness.  

As I understand it, the US Census form is now fully up-to-date in these matters.  No more assumptions about gender and family and household economy.  It&#039;s Person 1, followed by Persons 2, 3, and etc.  Which is as it should be, of course, and I certainly can&#039;t think of a better alternative.  But there&#039;s something curiously bloodless and disembodied about that numbering of Persons.  Also, it makes me think of Thing 1 and Thing 2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As a married woman, I also kept &#8220;my own&#8221; name.  The name I got from my father.  Which he got from his father, who got it from his father, and so on back through the mists of time.  Which doesn&#8217;t quite do the trick of smashing the patriarchy, after all.  I suppose I could have given myself an entirely new name, but I&#8217;ll confess I was not prepared to make such a radical departure.</p>

	<p>I understand what everyone finds so objectionable about this head of household business, and I share those objections.  At the same time, there&#8217;s something about the tendency of this discussion that irks me a little bit.  The assumption of radically autonomous individuality, maybe, which expresses itself as an intolerance for any sort of acknowledgement of social embeddedness.</p>

	<p>As I understand it, the <span class="caps">US </span>Census form is now fully up-to-date in these matters.  No more assumptions about gender and family and household economy.  It&#8217;s Person 1, followed by Persons 2, 3, and etc.  Which is as it should be, of course, and I certainly can&#8217;t think of a better alternative.  But there&#8217;s something curiously bloodless and disembodied about that numbering of Persons.  Also, it makes me think of Thing 1 and Thing 2.</p>
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		<title>By: eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/comment-page-1/#comment-210284</link>
		<dc:creator>eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 14:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/09/details-details/#comment-210284</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Yes, it’s only in three of Switzerland’s four official languages.&lt;/i&gt;

Switzerland has three official languages (German, French, Italian), while there is a fourth national language, Romansh.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.admin.ch/ch/f/rs/101/a70.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.admin.ch/ch/f/rs/101/a70.html&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Yes, it&#8217;s only in three of Switzerland&#8217;s four official languages.</i></p>

	<p>Switzerland has three official languages (German, French, Italian), while there is a fourth national language, Romansh.</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.admin.ch/ch/f/rs/101/a70.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.admin.ch/ch/f/rs/101/a70.html</a></p>
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