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	<title>Comments on: The ethics of researching men&#8217;s room sex</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: seth e</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-210826</link>
		<dc:creator>seth e</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2007 10:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/#comment-210826</guid>
		<description>Just to add my host is rarely around so im left to fend for myself. Its a strange experience but that experience is why i made the comment above.

Now im going to Walk out the gate and pick up some dinner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Just to add my host is rarely around so im left to fend for myself. Its a strange experience but that experience is why i made the comment above.</p>

	<p>Now im going to Walk out the gate and pick up some dinner.</p>
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		<title>By: seth edenbaum</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-210813</link>
		<dc:creator>seth edenbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2007 04:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/#comment-210813</guid>
		<description>The problem begins with the role of &quot;objectivity&quot; or objectification in observation. It&#039;s the same problem with the  journalism: useful or not it&#039;s voyeurism based in unequal power relations.

I&#039;m living for the next couple of months in a still semi-rural banlieu outside Beijing.
And shopping for vegatables by the side of the highway. My host is building a pleasure garden in a gated compound with a smokestack on the horizon. Two modern buildings, one designed by ai wei wei and one post and beam and ceramic tiled roof in the traditional manner, with logs cut an joined by a man with a table saw and an ax. If I were a photo journalist I&#039;d be having a field day. The high tension power lines in the &quot;backyard&quot; are a sight. But the workers and the peasants I meet everyday are not data points. After a month or so I may ask permission to take some portraits of the farmers selling their produce or the food venders who gather along the road at the end of the day.  Or the gatekeeper and his wife. To journalists people are zoo animals. These people are poor (but a lot less so than they used to be) but they deserve respect no mre or less than anyone else.
At the center of the ethic of anthropology is that of one person talking to another. That&#039;s the moral foundation of the field, or at least it is suppposed to be, and it is supposed to weigh heavy on the mind of the human &quot;researcher&quot;. I&#039;d vote to bypass the benefits of scientific objectification in the study of ourselves, in favor of the constant return to the moral and ethical question of conversation among equals; even equals who are in so many ways not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The problem begins with the role of &#8220;objectivity&#8221; or objectification in observation. It&#8217;s the same problem with the  journalism: useful or not it&#8217;s voyeurism based in unequal power relations.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m living for the next couple of months in a still semi-rural banlieu outside Beijing.<br />
And shopping for vegatables by the side of the highway. My host is building a pleasure garden in a gated compound with a smokestack on the horizon. Two modern buildings, one designed by ai wei wei and one post and beam and ceramic tiled roof in the traditional manner, with logs cut an joined by a man with a table saw and an ax. If I were a photo journalist I&#8217;d be having a field day. The high tension power lines in the &#8220;backyard&#8221; are a sight. But the workers and the peasants I meet everyday are not data points. After a month or so I may ask permission to take some portraits of the farmers selling their produce or the food venders who gather along the road at the end of the day.  Or the gatekeeper and his wife. To journalists people are zoo animals. These people are poor (but a lot less so than they used to be) but they deserve respect no mre or less than anyone else.<br />
At the center of the ethic of anthropology is that of one person talking to another. That&#8217;s the moral foundation of the field, or at least it is suppposed to be, and it is supposed to weigh heavy on the mind of the human &#8220;researcher&#8221;. I&#8217;d vote to bypass the benefits of scientific objectification in the study of ourselves, in favor of the constant return to the moral and ethical question of conversation among equals; even equals who are in so many ways not.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Livingston</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-210737</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Livingston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/#comment-210737</guid>
		<description>Is it unethical to observe people in a public place who know that you are observing them?  That part of Humphreys&#039; research doesn&#039;t seem unethical to me. If it is, then we may as well pillory William H. Whyte for observing where people stand when they have conversations on the sidewalk. Humphreys was not secretly spying on them through some keyhole (or glory hole).  The men in the tearooms knew exactly what kind of privacy they were or were not getting.  

The unethical part was Humphreys&#039; getting the person in the police or DMV or whatever to disclose the identities of these men.  They may not have expected privacy, but they were assuming anonymity.  And they were doing nothing to disclose their identities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Is it unethical to observe people in a public place who know that you are observing them?  That part of Humphreys&#8217; research doesn&#8217;t seem unethical to me. If it is, then we may as well pillory William H. Whyte for observing where people stand when they have conversations on the sidewalk. Humphreys was not secretly spying on them through some keyhole (or glory hole).  The men in the tearooms knew exactly what kind of privacy they were or were not getting.</p>

	<p>The unethical part was Humphreys&#8217; getting the person in the police or <span class="caps">DMV</span> or whatever to disclose the identities of these men.  They may not have expected privacy, but they were assuming anonymity.  And they were doing nothing to disclose their identities.</p>
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		<title>By: Semidaily Links &#171; Wintry Smile</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-210694</link>
		<dc:creator>Semidaily Links &#171; Wintry Smile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 04:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/#comment-210694</guid>
		<description>[...] Why we have IRB boards.  It involves people having sex in bathrooms. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] Why we have <span class="caps">IRB</span> boards.&#160; It involves people having sex in bathrooms. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: In a Position to Know</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-210690</link>
		<dc:creator>In a Position to Know</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 00:09:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/#comment-210690</guid>
		<description>&quot;Yeah, Humphries’ book is a famous event within sociology, and it precipitated all kinds of hassle within (and for) the Wash U dept.&quot;

Indeed, it is widely considered to be one reason the Wash U Sociology Department no longer exists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;Yeah, Humphries&#8217; book is a famous event within sociology, and it precipitated all kinds of hassle within (and for) the Wash U dept.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Indeed, it is widely considered to be one reason the Wash U Sociology Department no longer exists.</p>
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		<title>By: Noli Irritare Leones &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Blogwatch</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-210638</link>
		<dc:creator>Noli Irritare Leones &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Blogwatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:27:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/#comment-210638</guid>
		<description>[...] The ethics of researching men’s room sex. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] The ethics of researching men&#8217;s room sex. [...]</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Andrew R.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-210636</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/#comment-210636</guid>
		<description>Scarmouche,

I believe you mean, &quot;Qu&lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; custodiet ips&lt;b&gt;os&lt;/b&gt; custodes?&quot;

/pedant</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Scarmouche,</p>

	<p>I believe you mean, &#8220;Qu<b>is</b> custodiet ips<b>os</b> custodes?&#8221;</p>

	<p>/pedant</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: thag</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-210633</link>
		<dc:creator>thag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/#comment-210633</guid>
		<description>13--

Injecting blue dye into the brown-colored contact lenses that blue-eyed people wear to make their eyes look brown.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>13&#8212;<br />
Injecting blue dye into the brown-colored contact lenses that blue-eyed people wear to make their eyes look brown.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ginger Yellow</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-210632</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginger Yellow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/#comment-210632</guid>
		<description>I used to have a thing where I asked everyone I knew what their Nazi experiment would be. In other words, if there were no ethical or practical consequences, what piece of research would you conduct? I reckon everyone has at least one. Since I haven&#039;t done it for a while, I might as well ask you lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I used to have a thing where I asked everyone I knew what their Nazi experiment would be. In other words, if there were no ethical or practical consequences, what piece of research would you conduct? I reckon everyone has at least one. Since I haven&#8217;t done it for a while, I might as well ask you lot.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-210628</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 08:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/#comment-210628</guid>
		<description>11: Only the economists who worked for Enron...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>11: Only the economists who worked for Enron&#8230;</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-210626</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/#comment-210626</guid>
		<description>That was an amazing link, Eszter. I wonder if economists could defraud their subjects as a way of investigating consumer rationality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>That was an amazing link, Eszter. I wonder if economists could defraud their subjects as a way of investigating consumer rationality.</p>
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		<title>By: joel turnipseed</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-210619</link>
		<dc:creator>joel turnipseed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 05:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/#comment-210619</guid>
		<description>Scott, 

It takes some effort, but sadly, I probably can imagine--&lt;a href=&quot;http://hotelzero.typepad.com/hotel_zero/2007/09/in-an-otherwise.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;better than I&#039;d like.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Scott,</p>

	<p>It takes some effort, but sadly, I probably can imagine&#8212;<a href="http://hotelzero.typepad.com/hotel_zero/2007/09/in-an-otherwise.html" rel="nofollow">better than I&#8217;d like.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Eszter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-210617</link>
		<dc:creator>Eszter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 04:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/#comment-210617</guid>
		<description>This thread reminds me of &lt;a href=&quot;http://jeremyfreese.blogspot.com/2007/02/carnal-sociology.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this post&lt;/a&gt; on JFW.  It is definitely worth reading the whole discussion over there, but here are just two quick quotes from the article Jeremy discusses:

&quot;I realized only much later, by having affairs with NAAFA women, I became entangled in the emotional complexities such affairs entailed, making my job of gathering information problematic.&quot;

&quot;I suppressed the idea that sleeping with my subjects was an inherently tricky proposition.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>This thread reminds me of <a href="http://jeremyfreese.blogspot.com/2007/02/carnal-sociology.html" rel="nofollow">this post</a> on <span class="caps">JFW</span>.  It is definitely worth reading the whole discussion over there, but here are just two quick quotes from the article Jeremy discusses:</p>

	<p>&#8220;I realized only much later, by having affairs with <span class="caps">NAAFA</span> women, I became entangled in the emotional complexities such affairs entailed, making my job of gathering information problematic.&#8221;</p>

	<p>&#8220;I suppressed the idea that sleeping with my subjects was an inherently tricky proposition.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-210601</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 01:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/#comment-210601</guid>
		<description>Vivian: I don&#039;t have a reference but my memory is that Kinsey&#039;s sampling procedures were pretty erratic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Vivian: I don&#8217;t have a reference but my memory is that Kinsey&#8217;s sampling procedures were pretty erratic.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott McLemee</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/comment-page-1/#comment-210600</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott McLemee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 01:53:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/09/12/the-ethics-of-researching-mens-room-sex/#comment-210600</guid>
		<description>Vivian -- Yeah, it&#039;s kind of stuck in my head, a  mash-up between &lt;em&gt;All the King&#039;s Men&lt;/em&gt; and one of those movies that Showtime runs at three in the morning.

I&#039;ve been asked how Humphreys responded to the offer. He says in the manuscript (as reported by the biographers) that he turned it down.

Joel -- I&#039;d hoped that someone who was at the ASA session would describe it in the comments section.  So far that hasn&#039;t happened. Can you imagine what the effect would have been in 1974?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Vivian&#8212;Yeah, it&#8217;s kind of stuck in my head, a  mash-up between <em>All the King&#8217;s Men</em> and one of those movies that Showtime runs at three in the morning.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;ve been asked how Humphreys responded to the offer. He says in the manuscript (as reported by the biographers) that he turned it down.</p>

	<p>Joel&#8212;I&#8217;d hoped that someone who was at the <span class="caps">ASA</span> session would describe it in the comments section.  So far that hasn&#8217;t happened. Can you imagine what the effect would have been in 1974?</p>
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