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	<title>Comments on: Congratulations!</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: ajay</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-213773</link>
		<dc:creator>ajay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/#comment-213773</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The implied faith in “peace congresses” would strike me as quaint, if it weren’t so heartbreaking. &lt;/i&gt;

We still have lots of peace congresses, even post WW2, and they still produce results. We don&#039;t call them that anymore - we call them &quot;summit meetings&quot; or something - but Nobel would have recognised things like, inter alia, the SALT, INF, CTB and CFE talks and the Camp David summit as peace congresses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>The implied faith in &#8220;peace congresses&#8221; would strike me as quaint, if it weren&#8217;t so heartbreaking. </i></p>

	<p>We still have lots of peace congresses, even post <span class="caps">WW2</span>, and they still produce results. We don&#8217;t call them that anymore &#8211; we call them &#8220;summit meetings&#8221; or something &#8211; but Nobel would have recognised things like, inter alia, the <span class="caps">SALT</span>, INF, <span class="caps">CTB</span> and <span class="caps">CFE</span> talks and the Camp David summit as peace congresses.</p>
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		<title>By: Thom Brooks</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-213772</link>
		<dc:creator>Thom Brooks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/#comment-213772</guid>
		<description>&lt;a&gt;I think it is all most well-deserved!&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a>I think it is all most well-deserved!</a></p>
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		<title>By: MFB</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-213770</link>
		<dc:creator>MFB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 10:14:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/#comment-213770</guid>
		<description>1. Gore has made a slide-show and a movie (with a lot of help with both). Big, fat, hairy deal. George Monbiot should be getting the prize, then. I mean, he actually wrote a big book on the subject all by himself.
2. None of the above denies anthropogenic global warming, and anyone who does, and who is not a climate scientist in line for a Nobel, is a twerp.
3. The reason why Gore&#039;s getting the prize is not because he is such a splendid chap. He is a) an opposition US politician, and b) is expressing views which contradict the loopy views of the current US administration.

In short, this Nobel, like the one to El Baradei, should be seen as a rap over the knuckles for the Bush administration, and as such is well deserved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>1. Gore has made a slide-show and a movie (with a lot of help with both). Big, fat, hairy deal. George Monbiot should be getting the prize, then. I mean, he actually wrote a big book on the subject all by himself.<br />
2. None of the above denies anthropogenic global warming, and anyone who does, and who is not a climate scientist in line for a Nobel, is a twerp.<br />
3. The reason why Gore&#8217;s getting the prize is not because he is such a splendid chap. He is a) an opposition US politician, and b) is expressing views which contradict the loopy views of the current US administration.</p>

	<p>In short, this Nobel, like the one to El Baradei, should be seen as a rap over the knuckles for the Bush administration, and as such is well deserved.</p>
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		<title>By: Randolph Fritz</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-213756</link>
		<dc:creator>Randolph Fritz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 04:35:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/#comment-213756</guid>
		<description>The stuff about how climate change has nothing to do with war or peace seems to be the new party line; I&#039;m seeing it all over the place.  But it&#039;s an expression of, at best, a lack of imagination, if not something darker.  The scope of the effects of climate change: millions of refugees, shifts in the locations of arable lands, loss of low-lying coastlands, the economic changes that will be required for mitigation and reversal, are the stuff of which great wars are made. To respond to climate change is to work for peace, and Al Gore is one of the leaders of that response.

Al Gore and Doris Lessing. The revolution is here.

[parts previously posted at the Sideshow]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The stuff about how climate change has nothing to do with war or peace seems to be the new party line; I&#8217;m seeing it all over the place.  But it&#8217;s an expression of, at best, a lack of imagination, if not something darker.  The scope of the effects of climate change: millions of refugees, shifts in the locations of arable lands, loss of low-lying coastlands, the economic changes that will be required for mitigation and reversal, are the stuff of which great wars are made. To respond to climate change is to work for peace, and Al Gore is one of the leaders of that response.</p>

	<p>Al Gore and Doris Lessing. The revolution is here.</p>

	<p>[parts previously posted at the Sideshow]</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-213752</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 02:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/#comment-213752</guid>
		<description>#63, I may have been inexact. Here&#039;s the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.johnquiggin.com/archives/001496.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;story&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>#63, I may have been inexact. Here&#8217;s the <a href="http://www.johnquiggin.com/archives/001496.html" rel="nofollow">story</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: goatchowder</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-213750</link>
		<dc:creator>goatchowder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 02:23:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/#comment-213750</guid>
		<description>I thought DeLay-Doolittle was the name of an Amendment that was intended to scuttle campaign finance reform? I don&#039;t remember it ever being the name of a committee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I thought DeLay-Doolittle was the name of an Amendment that was intended to scuttle campaign finance reform? I don&#8217;t remember it ever being the name of a committee.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-213740</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/#comment-213740</guid>
		<description>Re:24
Well, actually three words in addition to &quot;Henry Kissinger.&quot; Le Duc Tho.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Re:24<br />
Well, actually three words in addition to &#8220;Henry Kissinger.&#8221; Le Duc Tho.</p>
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		<title>By: loren</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-213739</link>
		<dc:creator>loren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:35:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/#comment-213739</guid>
		<description>greensmile: &quot;The science prizes have been awarded already, climate science is not among the categories.&quot;

True enough. 

It&#039;d be nice to see a future award that recognized the fruitful interplay of complex computational models and creative empirical testing that seems to characterize much of recent climate science (at least, so it seems given my frail grasp of even the gross simplifications offered by experts in the field), but it seems as if it might fit slightly weirdly in the current categories, encompassing as it does applied mathematics and computational modeling, chemistry, physics, ecology, natural history -- and a plethora of subfields in each of these areas.

Digging back a few years, Mario Molina, Paul Crutzen, and Sherwood Rowland won the 1995 prize in chemistry for their work in atmospheric chemistry, specifically: the formation and decomposition of atmospheric ozone - arguably an award made with clear recognition of a critical environmental issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>greensmile: &#8220;The science prizes have been awarded already, climate science is not among the categories.&#8221;</p>

	<p>True enough.</p>

	<p>It&#8217;d be nice to see a future award that recognized the fruitful interplay of complex computational models and creative empirical testing that seems to characterize much of recent climate science (at least, so it seems given my frail grasp of even the gross simplifications offered by experts in the field), but it seems as if it might fit slightly weirdly in the current categories, encompassing as it does applied mathematics and computational modeling, chemistry, physics, ecology, natural history&#8212;and a plethora of subfields in each of these areas.</p>

	<p>Digging back a few years, Mario Molina, Paul Crutzen, and Sherwood Rowland won the 1995 prize in chemistry for their work in atmospheric chemistry, specifically: the formation and decomposition of atmospheric ozone &#8211; arguably an award made with clear recognition of a critical environmental issue.</p>
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		<title>By: greensmile</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-213738</link>
		<dc:creator>greensmile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 19:05:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/#comment-213738</guid>
		<description>martin gets it half right in 24, notsneaky not even that good in 20.  Can any of you suggest who has done more than Gore to give the weight of the findings of those scientists a political visibility?  The sad fact is people don&#039;t get issues as well as they do personalities, faces and packaged positions. I have not heard many scientists complaining of the choice.  The science prizes have been awarded already, climate science is not among the categories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>martin gets it half right in 24, notsneaky not even that good in 20.  Can any of you suggest who has done more than Gore to give the weight of the findings of those scientists a political visibility?  The sad fact is people don&#8217;t get issues as well as they do personalities, faces and packaged positions. I have not heard many scientists complaining of the choice.  The science prizes have been awarded already, climate science is not among the categories.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-213718</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 16:03:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/#comment-213718</guid>
		<description>@55: Yes. Some time ago; in fact the date can be given with some precision, as the day in the spring of 2004 he decided to retail divers Swift Boat Vets propaganda against John Kerry. Thanks for that, Cockburn!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>@55: Yes. Some time ago; in fact the date can be given with some precision, as the day in the spring of 2004 he decided to retail divers Swift Boat Vets propaganda against John Kerry. Thanks for that, Cockburn!</p>
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		<title>By: bi</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-213715</link>
		<dc:creator>bi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 15:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/#comment-213715</guid>
		<description>asg:

&quot;John Quiggin talking about &#039;bubbles of delusion&#039; pretty much overwhelms any sensitivity to irony one might have had left after that 3rd graf.&quot;

I think that does describe a position. But of course it&#039;s not _your_ position, it&#039;s the position of an indefinite &quot;one&quot;. According to you, that is... or maybe it&#039;s according to some indefinite &quot;one&quot;, who happens to be a definite you.

Now, back to treasonous facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>asg:</p>

	<p>&#8220;John Quiggin talking about &#8216;bubbles of delusion&#8217; pretty much overwhelms any sensitivity to irony one might have had left after that 3rd graf.&#8221;</p>

	<p>I think that does describe a position. But of course it&#8217;s not <em>your</em> position, it&#8217;s the position of an indefinite &#8220;one&#8221;. According to you, that is&#8230; or maybe it&#8217;s according to some indefinite &#8220;one&#8221;, who happens to be a definite you.</p>

	<p>Now, back to treasonous facts.</p>
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		<title>By: asg</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-213713</link>
		<dc:creator>asg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 14:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/#comment-213713</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The Brett/asg position&lt;/i&gt;

Since I never stated a position, I assume you are referring to the one you&#039;d really like me to hold.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>The Brett/asg position</i></p>

	<p>Since I never stated a position, I assume you are referring to the one you&#8217;d really like me to hold.</p>
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		<title>By: loren</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-213712</link>
		<dc:creator>loren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 13:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/#comment-213712</guid>
		<description>Mere personal preference, but I would have liked to see the peace prize go to Sheila Watt-Cloutier instead of Gore (the former being in keeping with the spirit of recent awards to Yunus and Maathai and other devoted activists who&#039;ve made a small but promising difference on the ground). Looking over the past awards, however, they tend to go back and forth between noted (and often controversial -- Kissinger!!?!??) political and diplomatic figures who focus widespread attention on vital issues, on the one hand, and far less famous individuals who have quietly devoted their lives to vital causes, on the other. So fair enough (and I agree with others that it&#039;s a good thing that &quot;Peace&quot; is interpreted broadly).

Seems to me the nobels would work better these days if the scientific categories could somehow be changed (no doubt in clear violation of Nobel&#039;s will) to reflect contemporary trends, i.e. distinguishing physics and chemistry seems a bit strained on the one side, and separating chemistry and important areas of (often medical-related) biology seems similarly strained, on the other.

Better, I&#039;d think, to have something like &#039;physical sciences&#039;, &#039;life sciences&#039;, and maybe &#039;human sciences&#039; which could include medical, behavioural and social sciences (which might at least partially satisfy the curmudgeonly academy critics of the economics memorial prize - which is now more of a social/behavioural sciences prize anyway).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Mere personal preference, but I would have liked to see the peace prize go to Sheila Watt-Cloutier instead of Gore (the former being in keeping with the spirit of recent awards to Yunus and Maathai and other devoted activists who&#8217;ve made a small but promising difference on the ground). Looking over the past awards, however, they tend to go back and forth between noted (and often controversial&#8212;Kissinger<img src="!?" alt="" border="0" />??) political and diplomatic figures who focus widespread attention on vital issues, on the one hand, and far less famous individuals who have quietly devoted their lives to vital causes, on the other. So fair enough (and I agree with others that it&#8217;s a good thing that &#8220;Peace&#8221; is interpreted broadly).</p>

	<p>Seems to me the nobels would work better these days if the scientific categories could somehow be changed (no doubt in clear violation of Nobel&#8217;s will) to reflect contemporary trends, i.e. distinguishing physics and chemistry seems a bit strained on the one side, and separating chemistry and important areas of (often medical-related) biology seems similarly strained, on the other.</p>

	<p>Better, I&#8217;d think, to have something like &#8216;physical sciences&#8217;, &#8216;life sciences&#8217;, and maybe &#8216;human sciences&#8217; which could include medical, behavioural and social sciences (which might at least partially satisfy the curmudgeonly academy critics of the economics memorial prize &#8211; which is now more of a social/behavioural sciences prize anyway).</p>
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		<title>By: Hidari</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-213711</link>
		<dc:creator>Hidari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:40:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/#comment-213711</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, has Alexander Cockburn gone mad? No, but seriously? 

http://www.counterpunch.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Incidentally, has Alexander Cockburn gone mad? No, but seriously?</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.counterpunch.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/comment-page-2/#comment-213707</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 07:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/10/12/congratulations-2/#comment-213707</guid>
		<description>My opinion: Cindy Sheehan should&#039;ve gotten it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>My opinion: Cindy Sheehan should&#8217;ve gotten it.</p>
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