Comments on: A couple of links

By: Islamomania of the Week at Jacob Christensen

Islamomania of the Week at Jacob Christensen — Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:34:29 +0000

[...] Chris Bartram digs up an interview with Ayaan Hirsi Ali (who has been in the news over the question about who if any should pay her security arrangements) with the comment: …she makes crystal clear the nature of her views and erases forever any thought that the perception of her as a “clash of civilizations” extremist might be the result of misreporting or looseness of expression [...]

By: Hidari

Hidari — Wed, 17 Oct 2007 16:52:38 +0000

‘Contrary to Ayaan’s strange defeatist-aggressive appraoch, he doesn’t aim to simply kill, burn and destroy. He argues.’

Everyone knows that logical argument is a tool of the neo-Islamofascist hard right, and that appeals to reason and empirical evidence are a sure sign of an enemy of the Enlightenment Project. As Christopher Hitchens so rightly says, we cannot be tolerant of the intolerant. Likewise, we cannot use logical argument against the illogical and we cannot use reason and science against the unreasonable and the anti-scientific. Therefore, if you use reason, logic and evidence you are part of the Communoislamofasconazi conspiracy that secretly rules the world. THE WORLD I TELL YOU!

By: lemuel pitkin

lemuel pitkin — Wed, 17 Oct 2007 15:48:43 +0000

Hirsi Ali may be the first refugee from Western Europe since the Holocaust.

This is a rather odd thing for Harris and Rushdie to say, since it was an official of Ali’s own right-wing party that revoked her citizenship.

By: stostosto

stostosto — Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:33:19 +0000

Here is a young Muslim with a very interesting take on the possibilities of Islamic reform. Contrary to Ayaan's strange defeatist-aggressive appraoch, he doesn't aim to simply kill, burn and destroy. He argues.

By: des von bladet

des von bladet — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 15:25:30 +0000

We remark, apropos of not much, that the Scholarly Advisors to the Dutch Government (WRR) recently recommended scrapping the term “allochtoon”, on the grounds it does more harm than good.

One of the many things it doesn’t do, though, is translate unproblematically into English “immigrant” – the standard British term that most closely matches “allochtoon” is “ethnic minority”, and facilitating a lack of distinction between that and “immigrant” is fighting talk in civilised company, and quite right too.

By: jayann

jayann — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 11:48:29 +0000

luc, my point is that (as I understand it) the Dutch Central Bureau of Statistics defines ‘allochtoon’ as I did and the Dutch Cabinet uses the term (to = ‘immigrant’). I agree landverhuizer in fact = immigrant as usually defined.

(The interviewer probably is deliberately fudging the issue.)

By: MFB

MFB — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:33:36 +0000

Anyone who can bring herself to agree with John Bolton on any subject (except, POSSIBLY, the time of day) is a deeply disturbed individual.

Protect her from herself.

By: stostosto

stostosto — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 08:09:33 +0000

For an extremist rabble rouser and rebel, Ayaan Hirsi Ali is oddly defeatist. Why, when she herself managed to free herself from the shackles of oppressive, intolerant religion is it so inconceivable that other Muslims do so as well?

By: Roy Belmont

Roy Belmont — Tue, 16 Oct 2007 03:31:18 +0000

Hirsi Ali is Ann Coulter’s shadow.

By: Luc

Luc — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:15:46 +0000

The interviewer is Dutch, so he knows exactly the difference between immigrant and “allochtoon”, and the confusion it causes when translated to English. So unless the intro isn’t his, he is guilty of fudging the numbers to play to the Eurabia crowd.

“courting the Muslim vote” in the third par. should have set off anyones bullshit detector.

By: abb1

abb1 — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 21:13:15 +0000

Ah, thanks, Jayann. I did not know that.

By: jayann

jayann — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:48:27 +0000

I think that’s the official Dutch definition of an immigrant, abbi; a staggeringly illiberal one (given the prejudice against ‘immigrants’). If it were the UK definition, I’d be an immigrant—and probably stateless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allochtoon

By: nu

nu — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:56:28 +0000

Muslims comprise less than 25% of the whole population, and obviously not all of them are immigrants, so it sounds like “immigrants—mostly Muslims from Morocco and Turkey” is false too.

If you use “not native to the Netherlands or have at least one parent born outside the country” as a definition of “immigrant”, I’d say that at least 80% of the muslims are “immigrant”. (and that because it excludes the very very young third-generation)

By: abb1

abb1 — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 15:18:02 +0000

Rogier van Bakel: “In Rotterdam, the Netherlands’ second-largest city, immigrants—mostly Muslims from Morocco and Turkey—had become a majority…”

Scary… But according to wikipedia:

In the Netherlands, Rotterdam has the highest percentage of foreigners from non-industrialised nations. Nearly 50% of the population are not native to the Netherlands or have at least one parent born outside the country. Recent figures show that Muslims comprise close to 25% of the city’s population.

So, you get ‘nearly 50%’ by counting those with “one parent born outside the country” as immigrants. Who else do you have to count to make immigrants a majority, I wonder?

Muslims comprise less than 25% of the whole population, and obviously not all of them are immigrants, so it sounds like “immigrants—mostly Muslims from Morocco and Turkey” is false too.

Clearly his definition of the word ‘immigrant’ is based on some racial criteria.

By: SG

SG — Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:17:54 +0000

I read an outline of an interview with her in Online Opinion a while back, and she seemed to have some pretty silly ideas about Indonesia and Turkey. The gazetteer of flag-burning linked to from Blood and Treasure also makes it pretty clear her claim that only Muslims burn the flag is wrong. In fact it even happened in Papua New Guinea!

More quality reporting from Reason magazine…