As for vouchers, it seems to me that there exists demonstrably superior alternatives, so though I would not say I oppose them (for the education systems I know, I suspect my judgment cannot be transferred to other countries), I support other directions of reform.

Until Jane can produce some convincing evidence or analysis showing vouchers will in fact improve the state of public education, there isn’t an argument to be had. So far all the evidence, and all the analysis that doesn’t rely on the Free Market Faery performing magic, is rather against vouchers.

This whole kerfuffle is another piece of evidence for the hypothesis that Jane Galt, even in her ‘Megan McArdle’ persona, is fundamentally not serious.

(Also, the bulk of the information there is about Wal-Mart’s anti-union activities against it’s own employees. That page is one union supporting workers in their attempts to organize a non-union workplace, rather than something primarily addressing voucher issues.)

Is NEA opposition to vouchers (and in many cases, charters) a big surprise? The NEA’s job is to protect their members. An increase in students going to schools that employ non-union teachers at below the union rate is going to be a concern, no matter what the source of funding. That’s just the union doing their job.

Got a link? I did some googling, and all I could find was a couple of articles quoting someone saying that some members of the NEA had called for such a boycott.

For example, The National Education Association has asked its members and has attempted to organize a more general boycott of Wal-Mart for the anti-public education activities of John Walton in founding the Children’s Scholarship Fund, which is in fact the organization which raises money to privately fund such voucher programs.

I also vaguely remember the school district in LA taking various legal actions against charities providing vouchers in the 1980s, but those were the pre-google years so I don’t see anything directly referencing it. (Nexis access anyone?)

So they wouldn’t use vouchers right? So we wouldn’t be causing ‘problems’ in THOSE students or THOSE schools because they are already fine, right?

That isn’t an argument against vouchers. That is just saying that vouchers won’t be successful because most people won’t bother using them. It is directly contradictory to most of the other forms of argument going on in this thread. This may be a problem with arguing with multiple people on a thread, but isn’t it interesting the Megan is being asked to defend vouchers both because so many people will use them that they will ruin everything, and because no one will use them?

Good heavens. What on earth have teachers unions been doing to oppose children using private scholarships?

Great point. Except they do.

Some of the biggest tries with voucher systems have been through private-donation funding. (Strongly resisted by the teachers unions naturally).

Well, that is the choice I personally made at the age of 17. But 17 year olds are notoriously idealistic, short-sighted, and unaware of long-term consequences. It worked very well for me (dedicated teachers, good classmates, and luckily the one bullet wasn’t really aimed in my direction and I hit the ground fast) but as a much older and wiser parent all I can say is that this is a vastly more complex social, political, and moral topic than the glibertarians would have you believe. I would hesitate to make any strong statement either way and certainly not under the limitations of a blog discussion.

Cranky

Its been fun but I guess I have to sign off now. My personal assessment of this thread would be voucher proponents C+ (maybe B-); everyone else A-.

And the vast majority of US parents are satisfied with their local public schools. The majority of Americans DO NOT live in central-city Detroit or any central city.

Cranky

Good questions but you are way beyond my level of knowledge there. I am not really familiar with academic education literature but one thing I have found odd is that there doesn’t seem to have been any detailed research on this topic. Seems to me it would make a good Ph.D thesis, article for The Atlantic, and popular book in one package.

Cranky