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	<title>Comments on: Through the Hourglass</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/comment-page-1/#comment-218291</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:08:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/#comment-218291</guid>
		<description>Mr. Newman&#039;s comment seems too long-winded to be merely a &quot;proof&quot; by incredulity. But I can see very little else there.

Presumably alex is referring to work surveyed in such articles as:

Colin F. Camerer (2007). &quot;Neuroeconomics: Using Neuroscience to Make Economic Predictions&quot;, Economic Journal, V. 117 (Mar): C26-C42.

Chris Starmer (1999). &quot;Experimental Economics: Hard Science or Wasteful Tinkering?, Economic Journal, V. 109, N. 453 (Feb): F5-F15</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Mr. Newman&#8217;s comment seems too long-winded to be merely a &#8220;proof&#8221; by incredulity. But I can see very little else there.</p>

	<p>Presumably alex is referring to work surveyed in such articles as:</p>

	<p>Colin F. Camerer (2007). &#8220;Neuroeconomics: Using Neuroscience to Make Economic Predictions&#8221;, Economic Journal, V. 117 (Mar): <span class="caps">C26</span>-C42.</p>

	<p>Chris Starmer (1999). &#8220;Experimental Economics: Hard Science or Wasteful Tinkering?, Economic Journal, V. 109, N. 453 (Feb): F5-F15</p>
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		<title>By: William Newman</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/comment-page-1/#comment-218265</link>
		<dc:creator>William Newman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Nov 2007 22:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/#comment-218265</guid>
		<description>In my stunningly bad books collection I keep _How to Live Like a King&#039;s Kid_, a proselytizing tract which I was given after asking someone for a book she thought would be particularly convincing to a thoughtful nonbeliever. (bad call on her part, I think) In one chapter the author tells about how, when visiting scientists at NASA, they told him about how their computer simulation of the solar system &quot;back and forth across the centuries&quot; didn&#039;t fit until some religious fellow on the team pointed out Joshua&#039;s missing day could make things come out right. That was the key insight, although in the event, the computer team also needed to include the forty minutes in Hezekiah&#039;s day to get things quite right. Yowza! At the end of the chapter the author notes &quot;Since the incident came to my attention...I have misplaced names and places&quot; and as far as I know they never turned up after that, so we can never check with the NASA tech people to find the details. Without that, it&#039;s hard for us to fill in the details: I have never been able to imagine such a planetary simulation with a contradiction which&#039;d be solved by accounting for a missing almost-a-day, because I can&#039;t think of any date endpoint thousands of years ago where we&#039;d know even one astronomical planet&#039;s position nearly precisely enough to create such a contradiction.

Similarly, I have great difficulty imagining a feasible set of experiments in cognitive neuroscience (which is actually a proper natural science with all experiments an stuff) which could pretty conclusively demonstrate that the rational expectations hypothesis is berserkly stupid. It&#039;s certainly true that impressive individual irrationalities exist and don&#039;t necessarily average out into something more nearly rational. They can even perversely end up blowing up into big irrationalities like speculative bubbles. And the properties of individual minds, and of the collective behavior of interacting actors, are enormously important, so this sounds like vitally important work, and not just in economics. And if someone has pretty conclusively demonstrated that the perversities must consistently dominate overwhelmingly in real-world economic situations, that seems like incredibly great work, unbelievably far beyond the state of the art of psychological understanding of the individual brain, of understanding of economics in general and the flow of information in particular, and of understanding of the mathematics of stability of systems. So could you elaborate? It&#039;s not reasonable to expect any of us to be such supergeniuses we can fill in the technical details by ourselves, and now that publication lags for amazing stories have become so much shorter, presumably unlike Harold Hill you haven&#039;t forgotten the technical contact details of your high-powered scientific buddies before publication.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In my stunningly bad books collection I keep <em>How to Live Like a King&#8217;s Kid</em>, a proselytizing tract which I was given after asking someone for a book she thought would be particularly convincing to a thoughtful nonbeliever. (bad call on her part, I think) In one chapter the author tells about how, when visiting scientists at <span class="caps">NASA</span>, they told him about how their computer simulation of the solar system &#8220;back and forth across the centuries&#8221; didn&#8217;t fit until some religious fellow on the team pointed out Joshua&#8217;s missing day could make things come out right. That was the key insight, although in the event, the computer team also needed to include the forty minutes in Hezekiah&#8217;s day to get things quite right. Yowza! At the end of the chapter the author notes &#8220;Since the incident came to my attention&#8230;I have misplaced names and places&#8221; and as far as I know they never turned up after that, so we can never check with the <span class="caps">NASA</span> tech people to find the details. Without that, it&#8217;s hard for us to fill in the details: I have never been able to imagine such a planetary simulation with a contradiction which&#8217;d be solved by accounting for a missing almost-a-day, because I can&#8217;t think of any date endpoint thousands of years ago where we&#8217;d know even one astronomical planet&#8217;s position nearly precisely enough to create such a contradiction.</p>

	<p>Similarly, I have great difficulty imagining a feasible set of experiments in cognitive neuroscience (which is actually a proper natural science with all experiments an stuff) which could pretty conclusively demonstrate that the rational expectations hypothesis is berserkly stupid. It&#8217;s certainly true that impressive individual irrationalities exist and don&#8217;t necessarily average out into something more nearly rational. They can even perversely end up blowing up into big irrationalities like speculative bubbles. And the properties of individual minds, and of the collective behavior of interacting actors, are enormously important, so this sounds like vitally important work, and not just in economics. And if someone has pretty conclusively demonstrated that the perversities must consistently dominate overwhelmingly in real-world economic situations, that seems like incredibly great work, unbelievably far beyond the state of the art of psychological understanding of the individual brain, of understanding of economics in general and the flow of information in particular, and of understanding of the mathematics of stability of systems. So could you elaborate? It&#8217;s not reasonable to expect any of us to be such supergeniuses we can fill in the technical details by ourselves, and now that publication lags for amazing stories have become so much shorter, presumably unlike Harold Hill you haven&#8217;t forgotten the technical contact details of your high-powered scientific buddies before publication.</p>
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		<title>By: notsneaky</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/comment-page-1/#comment-218162</link>
		<dc:creator>notsneaky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2007 21:30:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/#comment-218162</guid>
		<description>&quot;(the Austrians can of course tell you all about this&quot;

Yes, but that&#039;s because after Hayek and Von Mises they got... Rothbard. So it&#039;s not like it&#039;s entirely undeserved in this case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;(the Austrians can of course tell you all about this&#8221;</p>

	<p>Yes, but that&#8217;s because after Hayek and Von Mises they got&#8230; Rothbard. So it&#8217;s not like it&#8217;s entirely undeserved in this case.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/comment-page-1/#comment-218122</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 15:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/#comment-218122</guid>
		<description>As I said to a colleague not so long ago, rational expectations theory is now in the process of achieving something incredible - despite the fact that cognitive neuroscience (which is actually a proper natural science with all experiments an stuff) has pretty conclusively demonstrated that the rational expectations hypothesis is berserkly stupid, they are now arguing that all that accepted, their conclusions are still the same and still just as valid.

It&#039;s as if physicists were to discover that in fact, the speed of light is variable, but continue to maintain that the rest of the standard model is just as good as it ever was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>As I said to a colleague not so long ago, rational expectations theory is now in the process of achieving something incredible &#8211; despite the fact that cognitive neuroscience (which is actually a proper natural science with all experiments an stuff) has pretty conclusively demonstrated that the rational expectations hypothesis is berserkly stupid, they are now arguing that all that accepted, their conclusions are still the same and still just as valid.</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s as if physicists were to discover that in fact, the speed of light is variable, but continue to maintain that the rest of the standard model is just as good as it ever was.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/comment-page-1/#comment-218106</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/#comment-218106</guid>
		<description>To further clarify my muddle point, neoclassicism seems to be allowing new ideas in drop by drop while demanding that the new people renounce heterodoxy. The Collander -- Rosser -- Holt book &quot;The Changing Face of Economics&quot; (intro McCloskey) seems to do this. Herbert Gintis seems to be especially venomous in his attacks on those on the other side of the drawbridge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>To further clarify my muddle point, neoclassicism seems to be allowing new ideas in drop by drop while demanding that the new people renounce heterodoxy. The Collander&#8212;Rosser&#8212;Holt book &#8220;The Changing Face of Economics&#8221; (intro McCloskey) seems to do this. Herbert Gintis seems to be especially venomous in his attacks on those on the other side of the drawbridge.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/comment-page-1/#comment-218103</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/#comment-218103</guid>
		<description>I believe that the standard professional procedure for belittling or ridiculing an economist is to say that he&#039;s really just a sociologist. (Or maybe just a historian or just a philosopher). The nice thing about this is that it seems innocuous enough outside the profession, and not only that, the target can only defend himself by insulting sociologists et al. 

There&#039;s a specter haunting neoclassical economics. Not the specter of Communism, but the specter of Ptolemy. Stiglitz seems to have begun to realize this. The Ptolemaic theory and (more broadly) scholasticism were solidly institutionalized, and scholasticism hung on well into the sisteenth century -- three centuries after it quit producing anything of much interest. (Here&#039;s Wiki&#039;s scholastics 1350--1650: Gregory of Rimini,  Thomas Cardinal Cajetan, Francisco de Vitoria, Francisco Suarez, Leonardus Lessius, Cesare Cremonini.) 

This is not to say that the late scholastics wrote nothing of any interest or value at all. Suarez was the theoretician of Guy Fawkes&#039; &quot;Gunpowder Plot&quot;, and performed a great service for future anarchists and assassins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I believe that the standard professional procedure for belittling or ridiculing an economist is to say that he&#8217;s really just a sociologist. (Or maybe just a historian or just a philosopher). The nice thing about this is that it seems innocuous enough outside the profession, and not only that, the target can only defend himself by insulting sociologists et al.</p>

	<p>There&#8217;s a specter haunting neoclassical economics. Not the specter of Communism, but the specter of Ptolemy. Stiglitz seems to have begun to realize this. The Ptolemaic theory and (more broadly) scholasticism were solidly institutionalized, and scholasticism hung on well into the sisteenth century&#8212;three centuries after it quit producing anything of much interest. (Here&#8217;s Wiki&#8217;s scholastics 1350&#8212;1650: Gregory of Rimini,  Thomas Cardinal Cajetan, Francisco de Vitoria, Francisco Suarez, Leonardus Lessius, Cesare Cremonini.)</p>

	<p>This is not to say that the late scholastics wrote nothing of any interest or value at all. Suarez was the theoretician of Guy Fawkes&#8217; &#8220;Gunpowder Plot&#8221;, and performed a great service for future anarchists and assassins.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy W</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/comment-page-1/#comment-218102</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 11:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/#comment-218102</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I was talking only about “mildly dissident economists” within the profession, who aren’t devout neo-classicals but want to introduce some changes. They’re pretty timid. &lt;/i&gt;

Ah well, there&#039;s your problem. If you&#039;re only looking at mild dissidents, it&#039;s hardly surprising that they are pretty timid. :) 

There is a polarising tendency in debate. To maintain a naunced position I find takes serious energy and attention to detail. For example I once set about arguing in a debate on a Jane Austen-dedicated board, that Willoughby did really care for Marianne, he wasn&#039;t just faking it. I had to devote massive amounts of space and time to specifying that I was *not* arguing that Willoughby loved Marianne, and that I was not arguing that his feelings were worthy of being called love in any philosophical sense. People, in arguments, have a tendency to fill in the other person&#039;s side based on some caricature, I know I tend to do it myself if I&#039;m not extremely careful. To resist this and to insist on being read as having a more nuanced view than the most wild-eyed lunatic your debating opponent has ever encountered means spending a lot of time saying that you are not arguing whatever the wild-eyed lunatics argue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I was talking only about &#8220;mildly dissident economists&#8221; within the profession, who aren&#8217;t devout neo-classicals but want to introduce some changes. They&#8217;re pretty timid. </i></p>

	<p>Ah well, there&#8217;s your problem. If you&#8217;re only looking at mild dissidents, it&#8217;s hardly surprising that they are pretty timid. :)</p>

	<p>There is a polarising tendency in debate. To maintain a naunced position I find takes serious energy and attention to detail. For example I once set about arguing in a debate on a Jane Austen-dedicated board, that Willoughby did really care for Marianne, he wasn&#8217;t just faking it. I had to devote massive amounts of space and time to specifying that I was <strong>not</strong> arguing that Willoughby loved Marianne, and that I was not arguing that his feelings were worthy of being called love in any philosophical sense. People, in arguments, have a tendency to fill in the other person&#8217;s side based on some caricature, I know I tend to do it myself if I&#8217;m not extremely careful. To resist this and to insist on being read as having a more nuanced view than the most wild-eyed lunatic your debating opponent has ever encountered means spending a lot of time saying that you are not arguing whatever the wild-eyed lunatics argue.</p>
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		<title>By: dsquared</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/comment-page-1/#comment-218094</link>
		<dc:creator>dsquared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 09:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/#comment-218094</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Can you give an example where a prominent “mainstream economist” belittled and ridiculed Rosenstein-Rodan, Hirschman, Scitovsky or any others? &lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s easy to be nice to the big names of the previous age; the trick is to venerate them as wise but essentially (and sadly) irrelevant predecessors while slagging off the modern-day inheritors of their tradition as kooks, dead-enders and unable to cope with the rigor of &quot;real&quot; economics (the Austrians can of course tell you all about this; the combination of venerating Hayek and vilifying Hayekians is pretty much par for the course, Krugman in the 90s being a particularly egregious case).  

It&#039;s also hard to square this nicey-nicey version of history with the facts about the institutional survival rate of development economics departments and programs.  Somebody was certainly going around saying that development economics wasn&#039;t real economics and that its grant money ought to be switched to something else, and the &quot;follow the money&quot; rule certainly points toward rational expectations theorists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Can you give an example where a prominent &#8220;mainstream economist&#8221; belittled and ridiculed Rosenstein-Rodan, Hirschman, Scitovsky or any others? </i></p>

	<p>It&#8217;s easy to be nice to the big names of the previous age; the trick is to venerate them as wise but essentially (and sadly) irrelevant predecessors while slagging off the modern-day inheritors of their tradition as kooks, dead-enders and unable to cope with the rigor of &#8220;real&#8221; economics (the Austrians can of course tell you all about this; the combination of venerating Hayek and vilifying Hayekians is pretty much par for the course, Krugman in the 90s being a particularly egregious case).</p>

	<p>It&#8217;s also hard to square this nicey-nicey version of history with the facts about the institutional survival rate of development economics departments and programs.  Somebody was certainly going around saying that development economics wasn&#8217;t real economics and that its grant money ought to be switched to something else, and the &#8220;follow the money&#8221; rule certainly points toward rational expectations theorists.</p>
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		<title>By: notsneaky</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/comment-page-1/#comment-218082</link>
		<dc:creator>notsneaky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 03:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/#comment-218082</guid>
		<description>&quot;I agree it is too strong to say it was belittled and ridiculed.&quot;

Ok, don&#039;t do it again.

And Chicago was never as monolithic ideologically or methodologically as people made/make it out to be. I guess I see Lucas&#039; &quot;departure&quot; as less of a departure. It was good economics and that&#039;s what mattered.

Also, if you read the original Lucas speech - the whole &quot;the implications of growth are staggering&quot; bit - you see him pay ample homage to the predecessors. Even the model associated with him is known as the Uzawa-Lucas model. Uzawa published in 1965 and good part of the reason his name is in there is because Lucas has always been very good about acknowledging the predecessors (same applies with Muth and Rational Expectations).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;I agree it is too strong to say it was belittled and ridiculed.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Ok, don&#8217;t do it again.</p>

	<p>And Chicago was never as monolithic ideologically or methodologically as people made/make it out to be. I guess I see Lucas&#8217; &#8220;departure&#8221; as less of a departure. It was good economics and that&#8217;s what mattered.</p>

	<p>Also, if you read the original Lucas speech &#8211; the whole &#8220;the implications of growth are staggering&#8221; bit &#8211; you see him pay ample homage to the predecessors. Even the model associated with him is known as the Uzawa-Lucas model. Uzawa published in 1965 and good part of the reason his name is in there is because Lucas has always been very good about acknowledging the predecessors (same applies with Muth and Rational Expectations).</p>
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		<title>By: credit the ancestors</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/comment-page-1/#comment-218078</link>
		<dc:creator>credit the ancestors</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 01:09:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/#comment-218078</guid>
		<description>notsqueaky:  I agree it is too strong to say it was belittled and ridiculed. But do still think there was a &#039;Nixon goes to China&#039; quality to the Lucas&#039; paper.  U Chicago is really not the kind of place from where to expect a paper on externalities and market failures or the possibility of industrial policy.  Chicago -- home of Coase, Stigler, Harberger, Friedman, Becker -- was the place to find good arguments deeply suspicious of the idea of industrial policy. 

  Hence it was somewhat of a setting of a bold new direction for Lucas to have built a theory of growth build on market failure and external returns to scale.   Chicago&#039;s Kevin Murphy shortly after joined Shleifer and Vishny to formalize Rodenstein-Rodan. So no doubt the ideas of high-development theorists were making a comeback.  

  I&#039;m not interested in re-hashing a version of the debate over whether &#039;heterodox&#039; economists are tolerated or not (smart heterodox economists who can formalize ideas in models have always been tolerated and often celebrated -- even though I&#039;m quite certain Chicago was not the place they went to camp out).  
   My point was mainly that Lucas&#039; contribution to this field was not so much one of seminal ideas (as suggested by this essay), as much as those of formalizing, popularizing and hence making the topic interesting and hot for a new PhD to work in (e.g. Paul Romer was a Chicago PhD).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>notsqueaky:  I agree it is too strong to say it was belittled and ridiculed. But do still think there was a &#8216;Nixon goes to China&#8217; quality to the Lucas&#8217; paper.  U Chicago is really not the kind of place from where to expect a paper on externalities and market failures or the possibility of industrial policy.  Chicago&#8212;home of Coase, Stigler, Harberger, Friedman, Becker&#8212;was the place to find good arguments deeply suspicious of the idea of industrial policy.</p>

	<p>Hence it was somewhat of a setting of a bold new direction for Lucas to have built a theory of growth build on market failure and external returns to scale.   Chicago&#8217;s Kevin Murphy shortly after joined Shleifer and Vishny to formalize Rodenstein-Rodan. So no doubt the ideas of high-development theorists were making a comeback.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m not interested in re-hashing a version of the debate over whether &#8216;heterodox&#8217; economists are tolerated or not (smart heterodox economists who can formalize ideas in models have always been tolerated and often celebrated&#8212;even though I&#8217;m quite certain Chicago was not the place they went to camp out).<br />
My point was mainly that Lucas&#8217; contribution to this field was not so much one of seminal ideas (as suggested by this essay), as much as those of formalizing, popularizing and hence making the topic interesting and hot for a new PhD to work in (e.g. Paul Romer was a Chicago PhD).</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/comment-page-1/#comment-218076</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Nov 2007 00:35:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/#comment-218076</guid>
		<description>JE, I had my go at &lt;a href=&quot;http://johnquiggin.com/index.php/archives/2002/09/12/hayek-and-pinochet/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Pinochet&lt;/a&gt; here (search my site for more examples).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>JE, I had my go at <a href="http://johnquiggin.com/index.php/archives/2002/09/12/hayek-and-pinochet/" rel="nofollow">Pinochet</a> here (search my site for more examples).</p>
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		<title>By: notsneaky</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/comment-page-1/#comment-218069</link>
		<dc:creator>notsneaky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 23:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/#comment-218069</guid>
		<description>While it&#039;s true that it didn&#039;t start with Lucas and many of these ideas go way way way back, I think that &quot;The mainstream economics profession through the 1980s managed to belittle and ridicule these earlier authors&quot; is plain false.

Can you give an example where a prominent &quot;mainstream economist&quot; belittled and ridiculed Rosenstein-Rodan, Hirschman, Scitovsky or any others? The general feeling - before IO got really underway in early 80&#039;s - was &quot;it may be true but it&#039;s hard to model&quot;. Which means that perhaps it was ignored, but it doesn&#039;t mean it was ridiculed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>While it&#8217;s true that it didn&#8217;t start with Lucas and many of these ideas go way way way back, I think that &#8220;The mainstream economics profession through the 1980s managed to belittle and ridicule these earlier authors&#8221; is plain false.</p>

	<p>Can you give an example where a prominent &#8220;mainstream economist&#8221; belittled and ridiculed Rosenstein-Rodan, Hirschman, Scitovsky or any others? The general feeling &#8211; before IO got really underway in early 80&#8217;s &#8211; was &#8220;it may be true but it&#8217;s hard to model&#8221;. Which means that perhaps it was ignored, but it doesn&#8217;t mean it was ridiculed.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/comment-page-1/#comment-218066</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 22:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/#comment-218066</guid>
		<description>Geoffrey Hodgson says that economic theory &quot;works principally through its auxiliary assumptions&quot;.

Austrians aren&#039;t economists -- they&#039;ve been expelled. Neither are Marxists. Sorry, guys. 

I was talking only about &quot;mildly dissident economists&quot; within the profession, who aren&#039;t devout neo-classicals but want to introduce some changes. They&#039;re pretty timid. I didn&#039;t express myself clearly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Geoffrey Hodgson says that economic theory &#8220;works principally through its auxiliary assumptions&#8221;.</p>

	<p>Austrians aren&#8217;t economists&#8212;they&#8217;ve been expelled. Neither are Marxists. Sorry, guys.</p>

	<p>I was talking only about &#8220;mildly dissident economists&#8221; within the profession, who aren&#8217;t devout neo-classicals but want to introduce some changes. They&#8217;re pretty timid. I didn&#8217;t express myself clearly.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Walt</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/comment-page-1/#comment-218063</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 21:59:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/#comment-218063</guid>
		<description>credit the ancestors makes several good point.  The fact that in some accounts it&#039;s all attributed to Lucas disturbs me greatly.  Krugman points out a rather eloquent description of spillovers in Marshall, for example.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>credit the ancestors makes several good point.  The fact that in some accounts it&#8217;s all attributed to Lucas disturbs me greatly.  Krugman points out a rather eloquent description of spillovers in Marshall, for example.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dsquared</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/comment-page-1/#comment-218055</link>
		<dc:creator>dsquared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 18:25:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/12/through-the-hourglass/#comment-218055</guid>
		<description>in my essay I characterise this as &quot;the main usefulness of neoclassical economics is that it can be used as a means of persuading neoclassical economists of the truth of valid propositions discovered by other means&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>in my essay I characterise this as &#8220;the main usefulness of neoclassical economics is that it can be used as a means of persuading neoclassical economists of the truth of valid propositions discovered by other means&#8221;.</p>
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