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	<title>Comments on: Reification and Pornotopia</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: duus</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/comment-page-1/#comment-218545</link>
		<dc:creator>duus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 17:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/#comment-218545</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;(But the start of the semester sure did; it seems that freshmen Google the words “quick study” in an effort to increase the amount of time they can spend getting wasted.)&lt;/i&gt;

Hence the popularity of my blog &quot;Cutting Down On Homework Time In Order To Get Wasted More Often,&quot; which is a critical commentary on post-modern literature and its affect on the development of modern-day statistical techniques.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>(But the start of the semester sure did; it seems that freshmen Google the words &#8220;quick study&#8221; in an effort to increase the amount of time they can spend getting wasted.)</i></p>

	<p>Hence the popularity of my blog &#8220;Cutting Down On Homework Time In Order To Get Wasted More Often,&#8221; which is a critical commentary on post-modern literature and its affect on the development of modern-day statistical techniques.</p>
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		<title>By: Dale</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/comment-page-1/#comment-218425</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/#comment-218425</guid>
		<description>Back in about 1970 I knew a student at Portland State U. that used the word &quot;thingification&quot; in that context. Haven&#039;t heard it since.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Back in about 1970 I knew a student at Portland State U. that used the word &#8220;thingification&#8221; in that context. Haven&#8217;t heard it since.</p>
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		<title>By: Morat</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/comment-page-1/#comment-218421</link>
		<dc:creator>Morat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/#comment-218421</guid>
		<description>Soulite: It&#039;s been rather interesting looking at how the more hardcore BDSM porn is handling the combination of sex and BDSM. 

Heavy BDSM play often looks REALLY violent -- and those into the more roleplay aspects of it (and porn does tend to be heavier on &#039;roleplay&#039;) make it look more so.

So BDSM porn producers have walked a narrow line between showcasing violent or violent-looking fetishes and showcasing actual sex. There has been a real reluctance to do both together, as what&#039;s easier in the bedroom (understanding and acquiring the consent of everyone involved) is very hard to showcase visually.

At least one company has taken to simply bookending it&#039;s porn -- a candid disucssion between partipants as to what they&#039;re looking for out of a scene, a great deal of rather vigorous and often terribly painful-looking bdsm and sex, and then another bookend in which the participants discuss things and what they felt about it.

I found it amusing, as I understand that&#039;s how most real-life S&amp;M partners work in any case. 

I&#039;m not sure it solves the problem of telling fake violence from real violence, but it&#039;s worth noting that some of the peddlers of the most extreme stuff consider it a problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Soulite: It&#8217;s been rather interesting looking at how the more hardcore <span class="caps">BDSM</span> porn is handling the combination of sex and <span class="caps">BDSM</span>.</p>

	<p>Heavy <span class="caps">BDSM</span> play often looks <span class="caps">REALLY</span> violent&#8212;and those into the more roleplay aspects of it (and porn does tend to be heavier on &#8216;roleplay&#8217;) make it look more so.</p>

	<p>So <span class="caps">BDSM</span> porn producers have walked a narrow line between showcasing violent or violent-looking fetishes and showcasing actual sex. There has been a real reluctance to do both together, as what&#8217;s easier in the bedroom (understanding and acquiring the consent of everyone involved) is very hard to showcase visually.</p>

	<p>At least one company has taken to simply bookending it&#8217;s porn&#8212;a candid disucssion between partipants as to what they&#8217;re looking for out of a scene, a great deal of rather vigorous and often terribly painful-looking bdsm and sex, and then another bookend in which the participants discuss things and what they felt about it.</p>

	<p>I found it amusing, as I understand that&#8217;s how most real-life S&#038;M partners work in any case.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;m not sure it solves the problem of telling fake violence from real violence, but it&#8217;s worth noting that some of the peddlers of the most extreme stuff consider it a problem.</p>
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		<title>By: figleaf</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/comment-page-1/#comment-218400</link>
		<dc:creator>figleaf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/#comment-218400</guid>
		<description>Those old images aren&#039;t *quite* as benign as they appear to contemporary eyes, but they really do point in a great direction.

100 years ago we were still pretty involved in the (hard to believe today) belief that women could actually have sex with very few physical or medical consequences (social being obviously another story altogether), men who ejaculated &quot;as often as&quot; once a month were likely to die very young.  (Sounds insane to our ears, yes, but back then mainstream doctors held that one ejaculation was equivalent to losing one pint of blood!)

Anyway, even knowing that the foolish-looking men and laughing women are slightly less socially integrated in to *their* time than they seem from our perspective, from *our* perspective I think Nina&#039;s on to something.  If there is to a humanist pornography, as she proposes, then it&#039;s probably going to have a whole mix of emotion and experience instead of just the two permitted by contemporary anxieties about sex and sexuality.

figleaf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Those old images aren&#8217;t <strong>quite</strong> as benign as they appear to contemporary eyes, but they really do point in a great direction.</p>

	<p>100 years ago we were still pretty involved in the (hard to believe today) belief that women could actually have sex with very few physical or medical consequences (social being obviously another story altogether), men who ejaculated &#8220;as often as&#8221; once a month were likely to die very young.  (Sounds insane to our ears, yes, but back then mainstream doctors held that one ejaculation was equivalent to losing one pint of blood!)</p>

	<p>Anyway, even knowing that the foolish-looking men and laughing women are slightly less socially integrated in to <strong>their</strong> time than they seem from our perspective, from <strong>our</strong> perspective I think Nina&#8217;s on to something.  If there is to a humanist pornography, as she proposes, then it&#8217;s probably going to have a whole mix of emotion and experience instead of just the two permitted by contemporary anxieties about sex and sexuality.</p>

	<p>figleaf</p>
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		<title>By: Soullite</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/comment-page-1/#comment-218375</link>
		<dc:creator>Soullite</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 13:25:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/#comment-218375</guid>
		<description>Goat, when was the last time you saw a porno? 1978?

 I watch porn all the time. You will not find violence, rape, etc. in a mainstream film anymore. You have to actually look to find that crap. You CAN find extreme porn, but it in no way makes up the majority if material produced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Goat, when was the last time you saw a porno? 1978?</p>

	<p>I watch porn all the time. You will not find violence, rape, etc. in a mainstream film anymore. You have to actually look to find that crap. You <span class="caps">CAN</span> find extreme porn, but it in no way makes up the majority if material produced.</p>
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		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/comment-page-1/#comment-218359</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 05:03:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/#comment-218359</guid>
		<description>Just so long as Bruce Webb (who&#039;s great on Social Security) doesn&#039;t start posting more comments on his &quot;cock&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Just so long as Bruce Webb (who&#8217;s great on Social Security) doesn&#8217;t start posting more comments on his &#8220;cock&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: goatchowder</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/comment-page-1/#comment-218358</link>
		<dc:creator>goatchowder</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 04:36:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/#comment-218358</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve noticed that European porn producers tend to like their sex cut with farce and camp, whereas American producers tend to like their sex cut with... what else... violence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve noticed that European porn producers tend to like their sex cut with farce and camp, whereas American producers tend to like their sex cut with&#8230; what else&#8230; violence.</p>
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		<title>By: vivian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/comment-page-1/#comment-218357</link>
		<dc:creator>vivian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 03:24:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/#comment-218357</guid>
		<description>(Thanks for telling us about your other blog. I find it hard to keep track of who writes where, and since folks were teasing you and Berube about your many vacation homes, I sort of gave up. So any links are appreciated whether or not I click through.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>(Thanks for telling us about your other blog. I find it hard to keep track of who writes where, and since folks were teasing you and Berube about your many vacation homes, I sort of gave up. So any links are appreciated whether or not I click through.)</p>
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		<title>By: Noli Irritare Leones &#187; Blog Archive &#187; figleaf totally has to read this post</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/comment-page-1/#comment-218356</link>
		<dc:creator>Noli Irritare Leones &#187; Blog Archive &#187; figleaf totally has to read this post</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 02:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/#comment-218356</guid>
		<description>[...] Reification and Pornotopia. Evidently, some things were very different a hundred years ago. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] Reification and Pornotopia. Evidently, some things were very different a hundred years ago. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: yoyo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/comment-page-1/#comment-218354</link>
		<dc:creator>yoyo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 02:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/#comment-218354</guid>
		<description>i have not seen said porn but people giggling because they feel awkward sounds terrible</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>i have not seen said porn but people giggling because they feel awkward sounds terrible</p>
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		<title>By: Scott McLemee</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/comment-page-1/#comment-218353</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott McLemee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 01:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/#comment-218353</guid>
		<description>I like &quot;thingification&quot; but it seems unlikely to catch on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I like &#8220;thingification&#8221; but it seems unlikely to catch on.</p>
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		<title>By: noen</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/comment-page-1/#comment-218350</link>
		<dc:creator>noen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 00:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/#comment-218350</guid>
		<description>How about &quot;hypostatization&quot; in it&#039;s place then?

;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>How about &#8220;hypostatization&#8221; in it&#8217;s place then?</p>

	<p>;)</p>
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		<title>By: roger</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/comment-page-1/#comment-218349</link>
		<dc:creator>roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 00:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/#comment-218349</guid>
		<description>Coprophiliacs, I believe, still have trouble finding each other. Which is why they need a livelier bar scene, or, perhaps, a specialized dating service.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Coprophiliacs, I believe, still have trouble finding each other. Which is why they need a livelier bar scene, or, perhaps, a specialized dating service.</p>
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		<title>By: Brock</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/comment-page-1/#comment-218347</link>
		<dc:creator>Brock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 22:55:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/#comment-218347</guid>
		<description>I call for a moratorium on the use of the word &quot;reification&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I call for a moratorium on the use of the word &#8220;reification&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: noen</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/comment-page-1/#comment-218346</link>
		<dc:creator>noen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 22:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/18/reification-and-pornotopia/#comment-218346</guid>
		<description>That was fast.

Perhaps it goes like this: Victorian porn is to modern porn as Guinness is to crack cocaine. That and our sheer numbers. I&#039;m sure it was hard for coprophiliacs to find each other back then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>That was fast.</p>

	<p>Perhaps it goes like this: Victorian porn is to modern porn as Guinness is to crack cocaine. That and our sheer numbers. I&#8217;m sure it was hard for coprophiliacs to find each other back then.</p>
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