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	<title>Comments on: The Case Against Perfection</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Dan Hausman</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/comment-page-2/#comment-219389</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Hausman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 00:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/#comment-219389</guid>
		<description>The arguments about how enhancement may undermine humility, responsibility, and solidarity by changing our attitude toward giftedness seem to me strained and unconvincing.  Of greater concern is the very real danger that parents will seek enhancements to give their children a competitive edge. Since the capacities that give people a competitive edge are virtually by definition positional, their main effects will be to place pressure on offspring to measure up to their supposed genetic edge and to deepen inequalities and perceptions of inequalities in an extremely reprehensible way. If parents sought to enhance their children&#039;s moral sensibilities, kindness, and capacities to think carefully and show compassion, enhancement would not be disquieting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The arguments about how enhancement may undermine humility, responsibility, and solidarity by changing our attitude toward giftedness seem to me strained and unconvincing.  Of greater concern is the very real danger that parents will seek enhancements to give their children a competitive edge. Since the capacities that give people a competitive edge are virtually by definition positional, their main effects will be to place pressure on offspring to measure up to their supposed genetic edge and to deepen inequalities and perceptions of inequalities in an extremely reprehensible way. If parents sought to enhance their children&#8217;s moral sensibilities, kindness, and capacities to think carefully and show compassion, enhancement would not be disquieting.</p>
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		<title>By: chris armstrong</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/comment-page-2/#comment-219305</link>
		<dc:creator>chris armstrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/#comment-219305</guid>
		<description>I was told by a Dutch friend - who could have been pulling my leg - that if your child is particularly short, his/her teachers (perhaps amongst other agencies) are likely to want to talk to you, to investigate whether there&#039;s a problem at home in terms of nutrition, emotional support, family issues etc etc. IF this is true, there&#039;s clearly a different definition of normality at work than what I&#039;m used to in the UK. Even if it was a peculiar Dutch joke, at the level of theory I don&#039;t know which definition of normalcy is right - is height part of it? beyond what parameters does it become an issue? - and so I suppose that, like Colin, I&#039;m troubled by the idea of a cross-cultural, cross-historical idea of &#039;normal functioning.&#039; I think we see current disagreement, and I expect there to be still more disagreement in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I was told by a Dutch friend &#8211; who could have been pulling my leg &#8211; that if your child is particularly short, his/her teachers (perhaps amongst other agencies) are likely to want to talk to you, to investigate whether there&#8217;s a problem at home in terms of nutrition, emotional support, family issues etc etc. IF this is true, there&#8217;s clearly a different definition of normality at work than what I&#8217;m used to in the UK. Even if it was a peculiar Dutch joke, at the level of theory I don&#8217;t know which definition of normalcy is right &#8211; is height part of it? beyond what parameters does it become an issue? &#8211; and so I suppose that, like Colin, I&#8217;m troubled by the idea of a cross-cultural, cross-historical idea of &#8216;normal functioning.&#8217; I think we see current disagreement, and I expect there to be still more disagreement in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam C</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/comment-page-2/#comment-219248</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 20:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/#comment-219248</guid>
		<description>Abb1 - yes, I&#039;m saying that &#039;giftedness&#039; is a reference to the gratuituous nature of many of our characteristics. Most of the things we luckily or unluckily are, we can take no credit or blame for. This is a major theme in a lot of post-Rawlsian political theory, which is after all Sandel&#039;s background (he made his name with a critique of Rawls on exactly this topic).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Abb1 &#8211; yes, I&#8217;m saying that &#8216;giftedness&#8217; is a reference to the gratuituous nature of many of our characteristics. Most of the things we luckily or unluckily are, we can take no credit or blame for. This is a major theme in a lot of post-Rawlsian political theory, which is after all Sandel&#8217;s background (he made his name with a critique of Rawls on exactly this topic).</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/comment-page-2/#comment-219237</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/#comment-219237</guid>
		<description>Are you saying the word &quot;giftedness&quot; can mean something different than &quot;having innate talent&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Are you saying the word &#8220;giftedness&#8221; can mean something different than &#8220;having innate talent&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Sam C</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/comment-page-2/#comment-219230</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam C</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/#comment-219230</guid>
		<description>A small sidelight: the way Sandel&#039;s notion of &lt;i&gt;giftedness&lt;/i&gt; is being used has shifted over the course of this thread. Abb1, for instance, uses it above as if it meant something to do with &lt;i&gt;being gifted&lt;/i&gt; in the sense of &lt;i&gt;having innate talent&lt;/i&gt;. I don&#039;t think that can be Sandel&#039;s point (as least on the basis of Harry&#039;s summary - I haven&#039;t read Sandel&#039;s book yet). Isn&#039;t Sandel appealing to Rawls&#039;s idea that how we come out in the natural and social lotteries is outside our control - a matter of luck - and that this has important results for how we should think about &#039;our&#039; characteristics, unfortunate as well as fortunate? The point is that such &#039;gifts&#039; aren&#039;t &lt;i&gt;ours&lt;/i&gt;. Sandel&#039;s worry, if I&#039;ve got him right, is that bringing more characteristics out of the realm of luck and under control will give lucky people more excuse for thinking that their luck is actually due to their own merits. It&#039;s a version of Michael Young&#039;s attack on meritocracy:

&lt;blockquote&gt;If [the new elite] believe, as more and more of them are encouraged to do, that their advancement comes from their own merits, they can feel they deserve whatever they can get ... The newcomers can actually believe they have morality on their side. So assured have the elite become that there is almost no block on the rewards they arrogate to themselves.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A small sidelight: the way Sandel&#8217;s notion of <i>giftedness</i> is being used has shifted over the course of this thread. Abb1, for instance, uses it above as if it meant something to do with <i>being gifted</i> in the sense of <i>having innate talent</i>. I don&#8217;t think that can be Sandel&#8217;s point (as least on the basis of Harry&#8217;s summary &#8211; I haven&#8217;t read Sandel&#8217;s book yet). Isn&#8217;t Sandel appealing to Rawls&#8217;s idea that how we come out in the natural and social lotteries is outside our control &#8211; a matter of luck &#8211; and that this has important results for how we should think about &#8216;our&#8217; characteristics, unfortunate as well as fortunate? The point is that such &#8216;gifts&#8217; aren&#8217;t <i>ours</i>. Sandel&#8217;s worry, if I&#8217;ve got him right, is that bringing more characteristics out of the realm of luck and under control will give lucky people more excuse for thinking that their luck is actually due to their own merits. It&#8217;s a version of Michael Young&#8217;s attack on meritocracy:</p>

	<p><blockquote>If [the new elite] believe, as more and more of them are encouraged to do, that their advancement comes from their own merits, they can feel they deserve whatever they can get &#8230; The newcomers can actually believe they have morality on their side. So assured have the elite become that there is almost no block on the rewards they arrogate to themselves.</blockquote></p>
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		<title>By: harry b</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/comment-page-2/#comment-219218</link>
		<dc:creator>harry b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 13:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/#comment-219218</guid>
		<description>lemuel -- thanks, that&#039;s very helpful. I am v. reluctant to comment on a reconstruction of someone else&#039;s argument on the fly, as it were, and I have v. little time right now. I can say for sure that premisses 1 and 2 need modifying (that is, to capture Sandel&#039;s views), so I&#039;ll think about what is the correct version. Also, your comments and vivian&#039;s (and a private correspondence with Neil #1 above) convince me that I have inadvertantly reperesented Sandel&#039;s argument as being more obsessive about genetic interventions than it is. 

I&#039;ll try to figure out exactly how to modify your representation there, and will try to add to thins in the next day or two. Look out for it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>lemuel&#8212;thanks, that&#8217;s very helpful. I am v. reluctant to comment on a reconstruction of someone else&#8217;s argument on the fly, as it were, and I have v. little time right now. I can say for sure that premisses 1 and 2 need modifying (that is, to capture Sandel&#8217;s views), so I&#8217;ll think about what is the correct version. Also, your comments and vivian&#8217;s (and a private correspondence with Neil #1 above) convince me that I have inadvertantly reperesented Sandel&#8217;s argument as being more obsessive about genetic interventions than it is.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;ll try to figure out exactly how to modify your representation there, and will try to add to thins in the next day or two. Look out for it!</p>
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		<title>By: Lemmy Caution</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/comment-page-2/#comment-219199</link>
		<dc:creator>Lemmy Caution</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 05:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/#comment-219199</guid>
		<description>I thought this was a good article :

http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/2003_06_06_globe.htm

Pinker makes a good case that we won&#039;t see genetic engineering of humans any time soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I thought this was a good article :</p>

	<p><a href="http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/2003_06_06_globe.htm" rel="nofollow">http://pinker.wjh.harvard.edu/articles/media/2003_06_06_globe.htm</a></p>

	<p>Pinker makes a good case that we won&#8217;t see genetic engineering of humans any time soon.</p>
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		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/comment-page-2/#comment-219159</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 21:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/#comment-219159</guid>
		<description>OK, I want to take a step back. Harry, if you&#039;re still reading this and still willing to reply to me, can you tell me if I&#039;ve got the logic right?

1. Many people in low-status positions are there because of a lack of marketable talents.

2. Marketable talents are generally innate.

3. There is widespread and accurate awareness of the two facts above.

4. Because of this people feel empathy/solidarity with those in lower status positions. (&quot;There but for the grace of God...&quot;)

5. This sense of solidarity is a significant constraint on social and political inequality.

6. There exists or may soon exist technologies by which parents could reliably enhance their children&#039;s endowment of innate marketable talents.

7. If these technologies become widespread, people will come to see lack of talent and the concomitant low status as a result of (parental) choice rather than of fate.

8. This will result in a decrease in solidarity and so exacerbate inequality.

Is that basically correct?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>OK, I want to take a step back. Harry, if you&#8217;re still reading this and still willing to reply to me, can you tell me if I&#8217;ve got the logic right?</p>

	<p>1. Many people in low-status positions are there because of a lack of marketable talents.</p>

	<p>2. Marketable talents are generally innate.</p>

	<p>3. There is widespread and accurate awareness of the two facts above.</p>

	<p>4. Because of this people feel empathy/solidarity with those in lower status positions. (&#8220;There but for the grace of God&#8230;&#8221;)</p>

	<p>5. This sense of solidarity is a significant constraint on social and political inequality.</p>

	<p>6. There exists or may soon exist technologies by which parents could reliably enhance their children&#8217;s endowment of innate marketable talents.</p>

	<p>7. If these technologies become widespread, people will come to see lack of talent and the concomitant low status as a result of (parental) choice rather than of fate.</p>

	<p>8. This will result in a decrease in solidarity and so exacerbate inequality.</p>

	<p>Is that basically correct?</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/comment-page-2/#comment-219147</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 19:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/#comment-219147</guid>
		<description>Anyhow, I would like to boost my Ecclesiastes with this (from Annie Hall):
&lt;blockquote&gt;
Alvy: You look like a really happy couple? Are you?
     Woman: Yeah.
     Alvy: Yeah? So how to you count for it?
     Woman: I am very shallow and empty, and I have no ideas and nothing interesting to say.
     Man: And I&#039;m exactly the same way.
     Alvy: I see. That&#039;s very interesting. So you managed to work out something?
     Man: Right!
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Anyhow, I would like to boost my Ecclesiastes with this (from Annie Hall):<br />
<blockquote><br />
Alvy: You look like a really happy couple? Are you?<br />
Woman: Yeah.<br />
Alvy: Yeah? So how to you count for it?<br />
Woman: I am very shallow and empty, and I have no ideas and nothing interesting to say.<br />
Man: And I&#8217;m exactly the same way.<br />
Alvy: I see. That&#8217;s very interesting. So you managed to work out something?<br />
Man: Right!<br />
</blockquote></p>
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		<title>By: vincent</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/comment-page-2/#comment-219113</link>
		<dc:creator>vincent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 15:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/#comment-219113</guid>
		<description>Lemuel, perhaps the debate is absurd if you think of it as one about how to shape ethical and legal frameworks for future (impossible) technologies. But if you think of it as a way of revealing present attitudes and of working out our relation to the actual (via thinking about the impossible but not unimaginable), then it is less absurd. Perhaps it is also useful for uncovering what might be thought of as &#039;passive prejudices&#039; ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Lemuel, perhaps the debate is absurd if you think of it as one about how to shape ethical and legal frameworks for future (impossible) technologies. But if you think of it as a way of revealing present attitudes and of working out our relation to the actual (via thinking about the impossible but not unimaginable), then it is less absurd. Perhaps it is also useful for uncovering what might be thought of as &#8216;passive prejudices&#8217; ?</p>
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		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/comment-page-2/#comment-219109</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 15:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/#comment-219109</guid>
		<description>Also, Brett is (for once) right to point out hat genetic and and environmental interventions are very often interchangeable. I&#039;m sorry Harry, but it just ain&#039;t the case that there are special genes for &quot;marketable talents&quot; that you can just turn up a ntoch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Also, Brett is (for once) right to point out hat genetic and and environmental interventions are very often interchangeable. I&#8217;m sorry Harry, but it just ain&#8217;t the case that there are special genes for &#8220;marketable talents&#8221; that you can just turn up a ntoch.</p>
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		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/comment-page-2/#comment-219106</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 15:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/#comment-219106</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I suppose it’s true that someone born with a decent musical ability is not likely to bother making the effort to develop it further, knowing that someone else can just pop a little pill and immediately start churning out a dozen superb symphonies every week.&lt;/i&gt;

Thank you for pointing out the absurdity of this debate. First, the premise is ludicrous. It&#039;s like nutrition. Iodine prevents goiters; vitamin C prevents ricekts; etc. Very effective interventions. But while there are powerful tools to correct deficits, it doesn&#039;t at all follow that there are nutritonal tools to improve performance above the norm, despite a huge amount of mythology in this area. Mutatis mutandis, genes are the same. Easy to correct deficits, essentially impossible to produce supermen. This has to do with the fundamental nature of a biological organism as the nexus of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/Triple-Helix-Gene-Organism-Environment/dp/0674006771/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1195916786&amp;sr=8-1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a very large number of weakly determining forces&lt;/a&gt;. Sandel et al. need to read some real biology instead of posthumanist cheerleading.

Second, the conclusion doesn&#039;t follow from the premise anyway. Chess is essentially a solved problem. Have people stopped playing chess? Far more people exercise today than did a generationa go; is this because fitness is now &lt;b&gt;more&lt;/b&gt; a matter of &quot;innate talent&quot; than it was in 1970? Um, no. I&#039;ve recently taken up drawing; at the calsses i go to there&#039;s a real cross-section of people. Photogrpahy and all the computer-assisted techniques out there don&#039;t seem to have any effect on people&#039;s desire to develop this particualr talent. And even if the impossuible occurred,a nd a pill was developed that enhanced people&#039;s innate visual abilities, it&#039;s absurd to think that would stop people from doing the hard work of developing their talents. It&#039;s hard to believe that someone who thinks talent and practice are substitutes rather than complements has ever engaged in any serious creative work.

But the first question is whether these sorts of interventions are remotely likely and the burden of proof is on those who think they are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I suppose it&#8217;s true that someone born with a decent musical ability is not likely to bother making the effort to develop it further, knowing that someone else can just pop a little pill and immediately start churning out a dozen superb symphonies every week.</i></p>

	<p>Thank you for pointing out the absurdity of this debate. First, the premise is ludicrous. It&#8217;s like nutrition. Iodine prevents goiters; vitamin C prevents ricekts; etc. Very effective interventions. But while there are powerful tools to correct deficits, it doesn&#8217;t at all follow that there are nutritonal tools to improve performance above the norm, despite a huge amount of mythology in this area. Mutatis mutandis, genes are the same. Easy to correct deficits, essentially impossible to produce supermen. This has to do with the fundamental nature of a biological organism as the nexus of <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Triple-Helix-Gene-Organism-Environment/dp/0674006771/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1195916786&#038;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow">a very large number of weakly determining forces</a>. Sandel et al. need to read some real biology instead of posthumanist cheerleading.</p>

	<p>Second, the conclusion doesn&#8217;t follow from the premise anyway. Chess is essentially a solved problem. Have people stopped playing chess? Far more people exercise today than did a generationa go; is this because fitness is now <b>more</b> a matter of &#8220;innate talent&#8221; than it was in 1970? Um, no. I&#8217;ve recently taken up drawing; at the calsses i go to there&#8217;s a real cross-section of people. Photogrpahy and all the computer-assisted techniques out there don&#8217;t seem to have any effect on people&#8217;s desire to develop this particualr talent. And even if the impossuible occurred,a nd a pill was developed that enhanced people&#8217;s innate visual abilities, it&#8217;s absurd to think that would stop people from doing the hard work of developing their talents. It&#8217;s hard to believe that someone who thinks talent and practice are substitutes rather than complements has ever engaged in any serious creative work.</p>

	<p>But the first question is whether these sorts of interventions are remotely likely and the burden of proof is on those who think they are.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Bellmore</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/comment-page-2/#comment-219097</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Bellmore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 13:08:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/#comment-219097</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve got to say that, as excuses for not embracing our genetically engineered post-human destiny go, this has been pretty thin gruel. Fortunately, it&#039;s being consumed mostly by people who aren&#039;t in a position to do more than impotently whine while the future takes shape without them.

Regarding FADS7 gene variants, there&#039;s some reason for optimism that appropriate supplementation with the proper fatty acids can achieve the same benefits, IF you know in time that you should be doing it. Yet to be established is whether that supplementation has any ill effects if you didn&#039;t need it. Probably not, but I expect we&#039;ll know that shortly.

We&#039;re accumulating an increasing tool box of non-genetic intelligence enhancing interventions. Most of them seem to involve early prenatal nutrition, at a point in pregnancy where the woman doesn&#039;t have a clue yet that she&#039;s pregnant. You&#039;d think this knowledge would be informing public policy; We&#039;re talking things that are a hell of a lot cheaper and more effective than Head Start, after all. 

Isn&#039;t raising the bottom of the Bell Curve more important than keeping people from looking at it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve got to say that, as excuses for not embracing our genetically engineered post-human destiny go, this has been pretty thin gruel. Fortunately, it&#8217;s being consumed mostly by people who aren&#8217;t in a position to do more than impotently whine while the future takes shape without them.</p>

	<p>Regarding <span class="caps">FADS7</span> gene variants, there&#8217;s some reason for optimism that appropriate supplementation with the proper fatty acids can achieve the same benefits, IF you know in time that you should be doing it. Yet to be established is whether that supplementation has any ill effects if you didn&#8217;t need it. Probably not, but I expect we&#8217;ll know that shortly.</p>

	<p>We&#8217;re accumulating an increasing tool box of non-genetic intelligence enhancing interventions. Most of them seem to involve early prenatal nutrition, at a point in pregnancy where the woman doesn&#8217;t have a clue yet that she&#8217;s pregnant. You&#8217;d think this knowledge would be informing public policy; We&#8217;re talking things that are a hell of a lot cheaper and more effective than Head Start, after all.</p>

	<p>Isn&#8217;t raising the bottom of the Bell Curve more important than keeping people from looking at it?</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/comment-page-2/#comment-219096</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 12:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/#comment-219096</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.breggin.com/congress.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Parents throughout the country are being pressured and coerced by schools to give psychiatric drugs to their children.  Teachers, school psychologists, and administrators commonly make dire threats about their inability to teach children without medicating them.  They sometimes suggest that only medication can stave off a bleak future of delinquency and occupational failure.  They even call child protective services to investigate parents for child neglect and they sometimes testify against parents in court.  Often the schools recommend particular physicians who favor the use of stimulant drugs to control behavior.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Even if this Dr. Breggin is a crackpot to some extent (I don&#039;t know if he is or he isn&#039;t), still, it&#039;s obvious that these things can become a problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a href="http://www.breggin.com/congress.html" rel="nofollow">Here</a>:</p>

	<p><blockquote><br />
Parents throughout the country are being pressured and coerced by schools to give psychiatric drugs to their children.  Teachers, school psychologists, and administrators commonly make dire threats about their inability to teach children without medicating them.  They sometimes suggest that only medication can stave off a bleak future of delinquency and occupational failure.  They even call child protective services to investigate parents for child neglect and they sometimes testify against parents in court.  Often the schools recommend particular physicians who favor the use of stimulant drugs to control behavior.<br />
</blockquote><br />
Even if this Dr. Breggin is a crackpot to some extent (I don&#8217;t know if he is or he isn&#8217;t), still, it&#8217;s obvious that these things can become a problem.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/comment-page-2/#comment-219095</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Nov 2007 12:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/11/23/the-case-against-perfection/#comment-219095</guid>
		<description>Apparently the Sandel guy feels that innate talents are very important, hense &lt;i&gt;&quot;the key idea is that of giftedness&quot;&lt;/i&gt;. 

I suppose it&#039;s true that someone born with a decent musical ability is not likely to bother making the effort to develop it further, knowing that someone else can just pop a little pill and immediately start churning out a dozen superb symphonies every week.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Apparently the Sandel guy feels that innate talents are very important, hense <i>&#8220;the key idea is that of giftedness&#8221;</i>.</p>

	<p>I suppose it&#8217;s true that someone born with a decent musical ability is not likely to bother making the effort to develop it further, knowing that someone else can just pop a little pill and immediately start churning out a dozen superb symphonies every week.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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