Comments on: Help a Blogger Out http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 27 May 2012 06:52:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Matt Weiner http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/comment-page-1/#comment-220704 Matt Weiner Fri, 07 Dec 2007 04:41:43 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/#comment-220704 Who said "For one person," notsneaky? Greenberg clearly said $100 a month for two people. Who said “For one person,” notsneaky? Greenberg clearly said $100 a month for two people.

]]> By: RobW http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/comment-page-1/#comment-220584 RobW Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:51:00 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/#comment-220584 Not to mention the deeply insulting assumption that people facing a looming foreclosure haven't already cut all their other expenses to the bone in the interest of, you know, trying to keep their house. Not to mention the deeply insulting assumption that people facing a looming foreclosure haven’t already cut all their other expenses to the bone in the interest of, you know, trying to keep their house.

]]> By: notsneaky http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/comment-page-1/#comment-220572 notsneaky Thu, 06 Dec 2007 03:09:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/#comment-220572 Uh, how does 97.40$ per week for two people translate into 421.90$ per month for one person again? Or was that about something else. Uh, how does 97.40$ per week for two people translate into 421.90$ per month for one person again?
Or was that about something else.

]]> By: josh http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/comment-page-1/#comment-220570 josh Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:40:00 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/#comment-220570 Something to think about, in the context of this discussion: A person on food stamps has about $3 a day to spend on food. That's nearly twice as much as what Ms Greenberg's hypothetical would seem to allow as necessary (or possible). It's also damn hard to actually live on (I've tried it out). And it's well below even the lowest USDA estimates linked to in #9 (unless one's under 5 years old). Something to think about, in the context of this discussion:
A person on food stamps has about $3 a day to spend on food.
That’s nearly twice as much as what Ms Greenberg’s hypothetical would seem to allow as necessary (or possible).
It’s also damn hard to actually live on (I’ve tried it out). And it’s well below even the lowest USDA estimates linked to in #9 (unless one’s under 5 years old).

]]> By: Fraud Guy http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/comment-page-1/#comment-220569 Fraud Guy Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:10:06 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/#comment-220569 $60 per month for cable? Well, if you need high speed access, push that up to over $100, especially if you are trying to be accessible to companies while looking for a job that has remote capabilities. I'm not situated for satellite, and my local phone service DSL is not recommended by those who have it. Modern necessities...I'm sure I could sign in to work from the local library. $60 per month for cable? Well, if you need high speed access, push that up to over $100, especially if you are trying to be accessible to companies while looking for a job that has remote capabilities. I’m not situated for satellite, and my local phone service DSL is not recommended by those who have it.

Modern necessities…I’m sure I could sign in to work from the local library.

]]> By: Down and Out of Sài Gòn http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/comment-page-1/#comment-220555 Down and Out of Sài Gòn Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:47:47 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/#comment-220555 <i>You’re spending $60 a month on cable TV; can you get by with less? You’re spending $200 a month on food for two people, but food costs in your area show that you should be able to get by with $100 a month.</i> Ms. Greenburg is clueless if she isn't able to distinguish between luxuries and necessities. Wouldn't it be better to cut out cable TV altogether and spend the extra $60 on food? You’re spending $60 a month on cable TV; can you get by with less? You’re spending $200 a month on food for two people, but food costs in your area show that you should be able to get by with $100 a month.

Ms. Greenburg is clueless if she isn’t able to distinguish between luxuries and necessities. Wouldn’t it be better to cut out cable TV altogether and spend the extra $60 on food?

]]> By: Anderson http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/comment-page-1/#comment-220543 Anderson Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:17:25 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/#comment-220543 <i>and they’re apparently risking 30 years of almost guaranteed payments in exchange for a quick refinancing fee now</i> IOW, they're displaying the same lack of character that we're continually told is the consumer's fault and the cause of the crisis. and they’re apparently risking 30 years of almost guaranteed payments in exchange for a quick refinancing fee now

IOW, they’re displaying the same lack of character that we’re continually told is the consumer’s fault and the cause of the crisis.

]]> By: Nick http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/comment-page-1/#comment-220528 Nick Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:53:22 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/#comment-220528 FWIW, despite all the current problems with mortgages, we get monthly letters from our mortgage company offering to cash out our equity and refinance our loan to a "low adjustable rate." Since we have a relatively low-interest 30-year <b>fixed</b> rate loan and only bought the house last May, we'll accept their offers right around the time George Bush marries Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in a civil ceremony, but I find it striking that the company has no qualms about converting a secure loan into a less secure one. They're blatantly appealing to our greed, and they're apparently risking 30 years of almost guaranteed payments in exchange for a quick refinancing fee now. FWIW, despite all the current problems with mortgages, we get monthly letters from our mortgage company offering to cash out our equity and refinance our loan to a “low adjustable rate.” Since we have a relatively low-interest 30-year fixed rate loan and only bought the house last May, we’ll accept their offers right around the time George Bush marries Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in a civil ceremony, but I find it striking that the company has no qualms about converting a secure loan into a less secure one. They’re blatantly appealing to our greed, and they’re apparently risking 30 years of almost guaranteed payments in exchange for a quick refinancing fee now.

]]> By: Kathleen http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/comment-page-1/#comment-220522 Kathleen Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:29:20 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/#comment-220522 ... if you don't like sand and you have no crawdads, have you considered roadkill? the scary thing is that maybe she ISN'T pulling those numbers out of the air. Maybe they do tell people no relief for you unless you drop you monthly food bill to $100! Anything above that line shold go to debt servicing! It's been done before on a global scale, after all -- why not locally? … if you don’t like sand and you have no crawdads, have you considered roadkill?

the scary thing is that maybe she ISN’T pulling those numbers out of the air. Maybe they do tell people no relief for you unless you drop you monthly food bill to $100! Anything above that line shold go to debt servicing! It’s been done before on a global scale, after all—why not locally?

]]> By: Drake http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/comment-page-1/#comment-220517 Drake Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:16:13 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/#comment-220517 In economic speak, of course, opting for death is a substitute for expensive health care. So Greenberg <i>does</i> have a point. In economic speak, of course, opting for death is a substitute for expensive health care. So Greenberg does have a point.

]]> By: Matt Kuzma http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/comment-page-1/#comment-220494 Matt Kuzma Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:32:10 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/#comment-220494 This problem is every bit as much the fault of the shareholders as it is of the borrowers. A bad deal was made, and both sides of the deal are responsible for that. On the lender's side, that bad deal came about because of flawed business practices and the shareholders who reap the benefits of their investments also deserve the losses resulting from investments in flawed businesses. What's ridiculous to me about all of this is that chances are good any kind of loan adjustment will be better for both shareholders and borrowers than having the house foreclosed, winterized, and languishing on a stagnant market. Whether or not the bank overseer deems your $60/month entertainment budget extravagant is beside the point and, frankly, a useless endeavor. The bank has no business meting out justice by taking away people's cable because they made a financial mistake. Their business is to find a payment agreement that is satisfactory in the long term to both the borrower and their shareholders. If a borrower values cable over keeping their house, that's their business, however little sense it might make to anyone else. It's the job of the bank to make its investments pay off, not second-guess others' choices. But then banks have never really understood that. This problem is every bit as much the fault of the shareholders as it is of the borrowers. A bad deal was made, and both sides of the deal are responsible for that. On the lender’s side, that bad deal came about because of flawed business practices and the shareholders who reap the benefits of their investments also deserve the losses resulting from investments in flawed businesses.

What’s ridiculous to me about all of this is that chances are good any kind of loan adjustment will be better for both shareholders and borrowers than having the house foreclosed, winterized, and languishing on a stagnant market. Whether or not the bank overseer deems your $60/month entertainment budget extravagant is beside the point and, frankly, a useless endeavor. The bank has no business meting out justice by taking away people’s cable because they made a financial mistake. Their business is to find a payment agreement that is satisfactory in the long term to both the borrower and their shareholders. If a borrower values cable over keeping their house, that’s their business, however little sense it might make to anyone else. It’s the job of the bank to make its investments pay off, not second-guess others’ choices. But then banks have never really understood that.

]]> By: yoyo http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/comment-page-1/#comment-220479 yoyo Wed, 05 Dec 2007 17:22:25 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/#comment-220479 <i>Her figures are clearly off. But the basic point – that people who face high debt need to cut expenses (or earn more money) – is not controversial, right? I mean, assuming there was not outright fraud, and in most of the cases no one alleges outright fraud, people got into homes they could not afford. Is that the shareholders fault of mortgage brokerages? Or is that the person who signed on the dotted line. </i> So i guess only the borrower signs contracts? That must be a unique area of contract law. Her figures are clearly off. But the basic point – that people who face high debt need to cut expenses (or earn more money) – is not controversial, right? I mean, assuming there was not outright fraud, and in most of the cases no one alleges outright fraud, people got into homes they could not afford.

Is that the shareholders fault of mortgage brokerages? Or is that the person who signed on the dotted line.

So i guess only the borrower signs contracts? That must be a unique area of contract law.

]]> By: jim http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/comment-page-1/#comment-220471 jim Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:40:11 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/#comment-220471 On the contrary, the anecdote shows only too well what it's like to be broke. Forget the detail (either she pulled the number out of the air, or else she meant to say "week", but misspoke and said "month" aligning with the previous example). The conversation is only too real. If you're broke and need help from someone, you get to itemize all the money that's coming in and everywhere it goes to and then you get to have a conversation where you're told why you're doing it wrong. On the contrary, the anecdote shows only too well what it’s like to be broke. Forget the detail (either she pulled the number out of the air, or else she meant to say “week”, but misspoke and said “month” aligning with the previous example). The conversation is only too real. If you’re broke and need help from someone, you get to itemize all the money that’s coming in and everywhere it goes to and then you get to have a conversation where you’re told why you’re doing it wrong.

]]> By: Katherine http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/comment-page-1/#comment-220468 Katherine Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:24:27 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/#comment-220468 5: yes, but pulling that particular number out of the air shows how much experience he/she has with actual food shopping on a budget - i.e. none - so possibly he/she should refrain from passing comment on what is or isn't affordable. 5: yes, but pulling that particular number out of the air shows how much experience he/she has with actual food shopping on a budget – i.e. none – so possibly he/she should refrain from passing comment on what is or isn’t affordable.

]]> By: Stuart http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/comment-page-1/#comment-220465 Stuart Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:19:45 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/05/help-a-blogger-out/#comment-220465 Which is something over $421.90 a month, to more easily compare with the quoted figures. Which is something over $421.90 a month, to more easily compare with the quoted figures.

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