Comments on: The end of the Pacific solution http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Mon, 13 Feb 2012 09:49:20 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: a very public sociologist http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-221156 a very public sociologist Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:30:07 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/#comment-221156 Good on the new government. But was the policy scrapped on the grounds of progressive values, or the practicalities of cost? Good on the new government. But was the policy scrapped on the grounds of progressive values, or the practicalities of cost?

]]> By: engels http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-220998 engels Sat, 08 Dec 2007 22:50:19 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/#comment-220998 <i>If it was an evil system, and it won the election for the government, does that mean the Australian electorate is evil?</i> No. (#23483 in the series: Short Answers to Stupid Rhetorical Questions) If it was an evil system, and it won the election for the government, does that mean the Australian electorate is evil?

No. (#23483 in the series: Short Answers to Stupid Rhetorical Questions)

]]> By: Matt http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-220994 Matt Sat, 08 Dec 2007 22:32:26 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/#comment-220994 It's worth thinking what was wrong about the "pacific solution", I think. I don't think that it's per se wrong for a country to favor third-country resettlement as a policy for refugees so tend to think that _that_ can't be what was wrong. To my mind several points about it that were be would be the following: 1) there was a strong racist element to it. I've been told by an Australian refugee judge that the largest group of illegal aliens in Australia, by far, are American and European "back-packers" who over-stay tourist visas, but little is done about them. They are not rounded up and put in camps in the desert nor shipped to remote islands without hearing for processing. Why not them? The answer seems fairly clear. 2)There was a heavy punitive element to it, in shipping the potential refugees to quite poor and remote islands that could likely not deal with them in the long term and who have a doubtful likelihood of fulfilling their duties under the refugee convention. According to the linked article this was intentional, so as to discourage would-be asylum seekers. This is, at best, in violation of the spirit of the refugee convention and potentially a violation of it since it's not clear that Nauru and other destinations legally counted as "safe third countries". 3)Intradiction at sea and processing to a place like Nauru without hearing at least arguably violates to duty of non-refoulment, the core duty under the refugee convention. (Note that the US's policy towards Hatians also violates this duty, for similar reasons.) The earlier-scrapped program of not counting coastal islands as covered by the refugee convention surely violated the duty of non-refoulment. 4)While not strictly part of the "pacific solution" the system of concentration camps in remote desert locations used by Australia to process asylum applicants surely violated human rights norms. If the labor government can make serious changes in these areas they will deserve significant praise. It’s worth thinking what was wrong about the “pacific solution”, I think. I don’t think that it’s per se wrong for a country to favor third-country resettlement as a policy for refugees so tend to think that that can’t be what was wrong. To my mind several points about it that were be would be the following: 1) there was a strong racist element to it. I’ve been told by an Australian refugee judge that the largest group of illegal aliens in Australia, by far, are American and European “back-packers” who over-stay tourist visas, but little is done about them. They are not rounded up and put in camps in the desert nor shipped to remote islands without hearing for processing. Why not them? The answer seems fairly clear. 2)There was a heavy punitive element to it, in shipping the potential refugees to quite poor and remote islands that could likely not deal with them in the long term and who have a doubtful likelihood of fulfilling their duties under the refugee convention. According to the linked article this was intentional, so as to discourage would-be asylum seekers. This is, at best, in violation of the spirit of the refugee convention and potentially a violation of it since it’s not clear that Nauru and other destinations legally counted as “safe third countries”. 3)Intradiction at sea and processing to a place like Nauru without hearing at least arguably violates to duty of non-refoulment, the core duty under the refugee convention. (Note that the US’s policy towards Hatians also violates this duty, for similar reasons.) The earlier-scrapped program of not counting coastal islands as covered by the refugee convention surely violated the duty of non-refoulment. 4)While not strictly part of the “pacific solution” the system of concentration camps in remote desert locations used by Australia to process asylum applicants surely violated human rights norms. If the labor government can make serious changes in these areas they will deserve significant praise.

]]> By: john c. halasz http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-220992 john c. halasz Sat, 08 Dec 2007 22:12:44 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/#comment-220992 I just listened to a rebroadcast of NPR's "This American Life", featuring an episodic, if not picquareque, history of Nauru. It's worth checking out. I just listened to a rebroadcast of NPR’s “This American Life”, featuring an episodic, if not picquareque, history of Nauru. It’s worth checking out.

]]> By: Gareth Wilson http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-220989 Gareth Wilson Sat, 08 Dec 2007 22:05:40 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/#comment-220989 In response to 5, it's a little of both. The policy could certainly be evil. Just because five million people voted for it doesn't mean it's morally right. But what are the implications of five million people voting for something evil, and what does it say about them? In response to 5, it’s a little of both. The policy could certainly be evil. Just because five million people voted for it doesn’t mean it’s morally right. But what are the implications of five million people voting for something evil, and what does it say about them?

]]> By: John Quiggin http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-220988 John Quiggin Sat, 08 Dec 2007 22:04:33 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/#comment-220988 I'll mark you down as an "everybody is racist, so they shouldn't criticise me" racist, shall I, Ben? I’ll mark you down as an “everybody is racist, so they shouldn’t criticise me” racist, shall I, Ben?

]]> By: ben http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-220971 ben Sat, 08 Dec 2007 19:31:21 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/#comment-220971 Anything less than totally open borders is shameful. Anybody who wants to immigrate to Australia anytime from anywhere in the world should be allowed to do so. Anyone who thinks any differently will carry the stain of their racism to their graves and beyond. Anything less than totally open borders is shameful. Anybody who wants to immigrate to Australia anytime from anywhere in the world should be allowed to do so. Anyone who thinks any differently will carry the stain of their racism to their graves and beyond.

]]> By: Barry http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-220940 Barry Sat, 08 Dec 2007 13:11:36 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/#comment-220940 I'm jealous; I can only hope that a Democratic sweep in the USA next year would bear half the fruit. I’m jealous; I can only hope that a Democratic sweep in the USA next year would bear half the fruit.

]]> By: Alex Higgins http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-220929 Alex Higgins Sat, 08 Dec 2007 10:50:38 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/#comment-220929 <i>"If it was an evil system, and it won the election for the government, does that mean the Australian electorate is evil?"</i> Is this a bona fide question, or a cheap piece of demogogery? “If it was an evil system, and it won the election for the government, does that mean the Australian electorate is evil?”

Is this a bona fide question, or a cheap piece of demogogery?

]]> By: Stephen Judd http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-220920 Stephen Judd Sat, 08 Dec 2007 07:52:21 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/#comment-220920 <i>Only by the superhumanly high moral standards of a Canada or a New Zealand</i>. Mate, I wish that was true. Our isolation allows us to exercise our scruples a little more, that's all. Only by the superhumanly high moral standards of a Canada or a New Zealand.

Mate, I wish that was true.

Our isolation allows us to exercise our scruples a little more, that’s all.

]]> By: terence http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-220889 terence Sat, 08 Dec 2007 01:33:56 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/#comment-220889 horrayy!!! horrayy

]]> By: Syd Webb http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-220883 Syd Webb Sat, 08 Dec 2007 01:02:45 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/#comment-220883 Gareth Wilson wrote: <i>If it was an evil system, and it won the election for the government, does that mean the Australian electorate is evil?</i> Only by the superhumanly high moral standards of a Canada or a New Zealand. In the real world, if a government plays on the electorate's fear and ignorance it only means the electorate is fearful and ignorant. Gareth Wilson wrote:

If it was an evil system, and it won the election for the government, does that mean the Australian electorate is evil?

Only by the superhumanly high moral standards of a Canada or a New Zealand.

In the real world, if a government plays on the electorate’s fear and ignorance it only means the electorate is fearful and ignorant.

]]> By: Gareth Wilson http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/comment-page-1/#comment-220871 Gareth Wilson Sat, 08 Dec 2007 00:05:41 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/07/the-end-of-the-pacific-solution/#comment-220871 If it was an evil system, and it won the election for the government, does that mean the Australian electorate is evil? If it was an evil system, and it won the election for the government, does that mean the Australian electorate is evil?

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