<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Balls on Foreign Languages</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:58:07 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: EFLguy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/comment-page-2/#comment-221678</link>
		<dc:creator>EFLguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 23:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/#comment-221678</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;My wife is Taiwanese and our 4 year old twins have grown up with her mother around much of the time. My wife and her mother speak Mandarin Chinese all the time... &lt;i&gt;The twins however attend a daycare, and when it is just me and my wife with the twins we speak English only.&lt;/i&gt; (She spends an hour daily with her parents on MSN speaking Chinese &lt;i&gt;in front of&lt;/i&gt; the twins.) And the twins attend a day care where English is the exclusive spoken language. At this point the twins are exclusively English speakers... I am curious how this fits in with some of the comments about the ease of early language acquisition.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;b&gt;

This is quite simple. Language is best learned when used. Your children, based on your description above, use English, but they primarily listen to Chinese. I&#039;m betting they understand Chinese spoken to them and respond appropriately (in English),no? If your wife and mother-in-law start ignoring the children unless they Chinese (nagging probably won&#039;t get you far), for example, they&#039;ll start learning to speak Chinese. You might have your wife start reading with the kids in Chinese, too.

You see the same for second generation kids in the US: they can understand the mother tongue but can&#039;t speak it because they were not required to. When communicating, we take the easiest, i.e. most efficient route. 

Cheers&lt;/b&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><b>My wife is Taiwanese and our 4 year old twins have grown up with her mother around much of the time. My wife and her mother speak Mandarin Chinese all the time&#8230; <i>The twins however attend a daycare, and when it is just me and my wife with the twins we speak English only.</i> (She spends an hour daily with her parents on <span class="caps">MSN</span> speaking Chinese <i>in front of</i> the twins.) And the twins attend a day care where English is the exclusive spoken language. At this point the twins are exclusively English speakers&#8230; I am curious how this fits in with some of the comments about the ease of early language acquisition.</b><b></b></p>

	<p>This is quite simple. Language is best learned when used. Your children, based on your description above, use English, but they primarily listen to Chinese. I&#8217;m betting they understand Chinese spoken to them and respond appropriately (in English),no? If your wife and mother-in-law start ignoring the children unless they Chinese (nagging probably won&#8217;t get you far), for example, they&#8217;ll start learning to speak Chinese. You might have your wife start reading with the kids in Chinese, too.</p>

	<p>You see the same for second generation kids in the US: they can understand the mother tongue but can&#8217;t speak it because they were not required to. When communicating, we take the easiest, i.e. most efficient route.</p>

	<p>Cheers</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: iskander</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/comment-page-2/#comment-221636</link>
		<dc:creator>iskander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 18:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/#comment-221636</guid>
		<description>Kind of late for this but here is my experience. I&#039;m from Romania. I didn&#039;t know any english till i was about 10 years old. Then we got cable and i started watching Cartoon Network. At first I didn&#039;t understand a thing but after some time I started understanding. I don&#039;t know how. I did have english classes but they dind&#039;t do much good. Now , 13 years later, i can watch Snatch without subtitles. I studied franch for 11 years but i didn&#039;t use it for nothing and now i can  barley say hello( i  can read newspapers and stuff like that but french is not that hard for a romanian speaker). The big difference was that i learned english as you learn a first language(hearing other people talk) and i learnd franch starting with grammar and things like that (i started studying franch at 8 years). 
P.S most of my generation learned english this way.Now Cartoon Network si dubbed</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Kind of late for this but here is my experience. I&#8217;m from Romania. I didn&#8217;t know any english till i was about 10 years old. Then we got cable and i started watching Cartoon Network. At first I didn&#8217;t understand a thing but after some time I started understanding. I don&#8217;t know how. I did have english classes but they dind&#8217;t do much good. Now , 13 years later, i can watch Snatch without subtitles. I studied franch for 11 years but i didn&#8217;t use it for nothing and now i can  barley say hello( i  can read newspapers and stuff like that but french is not that hard for a romanian speaker). The big difference was that i learned english as you learn a first language(hearing other people talk) and i learnd franch starting with grammar and things like that (i started studying franch at 8 years).<br />
P.S most of my generation learned english this way.Now Cartoon Network si dubbed</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: BegoniaBuzzkill</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/comment-page-2/#comment-221634</link>
		<dc:creator>BegoniaBuzzkill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 17:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/#comment-221634</guid>
		<description>Are you trying to put us translators out of business by suggesting that Americans actually learn other languages? This is an unfair labor practice.
Posted by Arthur Goldhammer

Ahh, Mr. Goldhammer, you would have a better case if you lobbied from K-Street and/or sued for &quot;obstruction of business/income&quot;.

Ignore the propaganda. Focus on what you see. LOL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Are you trying to put us translators out of business by suggesting that Americans actually learn other languages? This is an unfair labor practice.<br />
Posted by Arthur Goldhammer</p>

	<p>Ahh, Mr. Goldhammer, you would have a better case if you lobbied from K-Street and/or sued for &#8220;obstruction of business/income&#8221;.</p>

	<p>Ignore the propaganda. Focus on what you see. <span class="caps">LOL</span></p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: vanya</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/comment-page-2/#comment-221605</link>
		<dc:creator>vanya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/#comment-221605</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s no great secret why for decades now Americans and Brits seem unable to learn foreign languages - they just don&#039;t need to, and most people will not really learn a foreign language unless they need to. Russians, Germans, and even the French, have a very strong motivation to learn English - in Europe knowledge of English is essential to success in business, advertising, science, almost any stable well-paying career you can think of. Americans have no similar motivation to learn Russian, or even Chinese. Unless you are planning to move abroad, there is just no compelling &lt;i&gt;practical&lt;/i&gt; reason for an English speaker to learn a foreign language. Spend months and months of your life learning a language you might use 2 or 3 times on 2 week tourist trips?  Most people can&#039;t even be bothered to read decent literature in English so unfortunately the &quot;opening the door to great literature&quot; argument doesn&#039;t usually wash.  And English speakers are already drowning in entertainment options in their native languages as it is. I agree 100% that learning a foreign language is enriching, satisying, and makes you a better person. But so is learning to play a musical instrument, or learning how to paint.  I think it&#039;s time to admit that foreign language courses for everyone is really probably a waste of resources - illiteracy in math and science is really a far greater issue in the Anglosphere than poor language training.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s no great secret why for decades now Americans and Brits seem unable to learn foreign languages &#8211; they just don&#8217;t need to, and most people will not really learn a foreign language unless they need to. Russians, Germans, and even the French, have a very strong motivation to learn English &#8211; in Europe knowledge of English is essential to success in business, advertising, science, almost any stable well-paying career you can think of. Americans have no similar motivation to learn Russian, or even Chinese. Unless you are planning to move abroad, there is just no compelling <i>practical</i> reason for an English speaker to learn a foreign language. Spend months and months of your life learning a language you might use 2 or 3 times on 2 week tourist trips?  Most people can&#8217;t even be bothered to read decent literature in English so unfortunately the &#8220;opening the door to great literature&#8221; argument doesn&#8217;t usually wash.  And English speakers are already drowning in entertainment options in their native languages as it is. I agree 100% that learning a foreign language is enriching, satisying, and makes you a better person. But so is learning to play a musical instrument, or learning how to paint.  I think it&#8217;s time to admit that foreign language courses for everyone is really probably a waste of resources &#8211; illiteracy in math and science is really a far greater issue in the Anglosphere than poor language training.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: KB</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/comment-page-2/#comment-221415</link>
		<dc:creator>KB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 22:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/#comment-221415</guid>
		<description>Number 28 - I&#039;m 25, and Ed Balls is still a hilarious name.  This bodes well for my Danish lessons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Number 28 &#8211; I&#8217;m 25, and Ed Balls is still a hilarious name.  This bodes well for my Danish lessons.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Great Zamfir</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/comment-page-2/#comment-221355</link>
		<dc:creator>Great Zamfir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:33:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/#comment-221355</guid>
		<description>Good point, Blah! Probably applies to many countries</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Good point, Blah! Probably applies to many countries</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: blah</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/comment-page-2/#comment-221343</link>
		<dc:creator>blah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:52:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/#comment-221343</guid>
		<description>one thing that has almost disappeared from secondary level foreign languages is literature, and with it, i would say, much of the motivation to study the language. students realise that they are never going to be fluent, or even half-decent, speakers of the language, but some at least would be stimulated by their lessons having more than just a functional aim. im pretty sure that it is now possible to do A level French without studying any literature whatsoever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>one thing that has almost disappeared from secondary level foreign languages is literature, and with it, i would say, much of the motivation to study the language. students realise that they are never going to be fluent, or even half-decent, speakers of the language, but some at least would be stimulated by their lessons having more than just a functional aim. im pretty sure that it is now possible to do A level French without studying any literature whatsoever.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GreatZamfir</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/comment-page-2/#comment-221299</link>
		<dc:creator>GreatZamfir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:53:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/#comment-221299</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite&gt;And that I can watch most of US-made hospital-soap, shoot-em-up-soap, supernatural-soap, and traditional soap TV stuff on local channels.Even, amazingly, a courtroom-soap like Boston Legal. I have to assume it’s not a coincidence.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You are missing two important things here. First: American series are sold relatively cheap in other countries, with production values that cannot be matched at local budgets. The budget per episode of Desperate Housewives is more than that of succesful Dutch cinema movies. I can assure you that parts of DH are completely weird to Dutch audiences, but even a big-budget local production looks poor in comparison, with less polished writing, and it is just easier and cheaper to buy an off-the-shelf foreign series.

The second thing is that audiences are to some extend used to American culture, or at least the subsections used in TV and movies. Courtroom drama is fundamentally strange to countries without a jury system, but after years of &#039;Law and order&#039; and John Grisham you know enough of the American system to understand the basics. 
Even stranger are high school comedies. In most European countries, schools do not have sports teams, cheerleaders, proms or prom queens. The students are allowed to drink, not to drive cars and cannot be rejected for colleges. Dutch doesn&#039;t even have a translation for &#039;dating&#039;.
The miracle that people still watch American high school movies is not caused by their universal appeal, let alone that their writers had export in mind when writing. It&#039;s simply years of training, so that Europeans know a lot about the cliche version of Aemrican high school life ( which I suppose might have little to do with reality).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote cite>And that I can watch most of US-made hospital-soap, shoot-em-up-soap, supernatural-soap, and traditional soap TV stuff on local channels.Even, amazingly, a courtroom-soap like Boston Legal. I have to assume it&#8217;s not a coincidence.</blockquote></p>

	<p>You are missing two important things here. First: American series are sold relatively cheap in other countries, with production values that cannot be matched at local budgets. The budget per episode of Desperate Housewives is more than that of succesful Dutch cinema movies. I can assure you that parts of DH are completely weird to Dutch audiences, but even a big-budget local production looks poor in comparison, with less polished writing, and it is just easier and cheaper to buy an off-the-shelf foreign series.</p>

	<p>The second thing is that audiences are to some extend used to American culture, or at least the subsections used in TV and movies. Courtroom drama is fundamentally strange to countries without a jury system, but after years of &#8216;Law and order&#8217; and John Grisham you know enough of the American system to understand the basics.<br />
Even stranger are high school comedies. In most European countries, schools do not have sports teams, cheerleaders, proms or prom queens. The students are allowed to drink, not to drive cars and cannot be rejected for colleges. Dutch doesn&#8217;t even have a translation for &#8216;dating&#8217;.<br />
The miracle that people still watch American high school movies is not caused by their universal appeal, let alone that their writers had export in mind when writing. It&#8217;s simply years of training, so that Europeans know a lot about the cliche version of Aemrican high school life ( which I suppose might have little to do with reality).</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: c.l. ball</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/comment-page-2/#comment-221276</link>
		<dc:creator>c.l. ball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 01:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/#comment-221276</guid>
		<description>I thought the whole point of US foreign language instruction was to convince us that foreign languages are for foreign people. Since the rest of the world teaches everyone English, what&#039;s the point in us Anglo-phones learning their languages. We&#039;ll end up talking past each other. 

This way we have more time to teach gym and study hall in US schools. These are skills you can&#039;t get elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I thought the whole point of US foreign language instruction was to convince us that foreign languages are for foreign people. Since the rest of the world teaches everyone English, what&#8217;s the point in us Anglo-phones learning their languages. We&#8217;ll end up talking past each other.</p>

	<p>This way we have more time to teach gym and study hall in US schools. These are skills you can&#8217;t get elsewhere.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: a</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/comment-page-2/#comment-221265</link>
		<dc:creator>a</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/#comment-221265</guid>
		<description>&quot;I guess only British tv shows really have export to other countries in mind during production.&quot;  Doesn&#039;t anyone have kids?  Or should I say kids who watch TV?  The Japanese surely think about exporting to other countries.  Otherwise, one would have to say that their success is due to the intrinsic quality of their shows.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;I guess only British tv shows really have export to other countries in mind during production.&#8221;  Doesn&#8217;t anyone have kids?  Or should I say kids who watch TV?  The Japanese surely think about exporting to other countries.  Otherwise, one would have to say that their success is due to the intrinsic quality of their shows.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hattie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/comment-page-2/#comment-221264</link>
		<dc:creator>Hattie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:09:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/#comment-221264</guid>
		<description>I learned a lot of German watching &quot;Die Leute von der Shihloh Ranch&quot;
I have some friends who were totally hooked on Derrick and got tapes of it sent to them after they returned to the U.S.
Language teaching is a catastrophe in this country and always has been.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I learned a lot of German watching &#8220;Die Leute von der Shihloh Ranch&#8221;<br />
I have some friends who were totally hooked on Derrick and got tapes of it sent to them after they returned to the U.S.<br />
Language teaching is a catastrophe in this country and always has been.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Randy Paul</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/comment-page-2/#comment-221260</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/#comment-221260</guid>
		<description>I routinely watch the Sony Channel when I&#039;m in Brazil. I see shows like Seinfeld and Fraser in English with Portuguese subtitles. It has enhanced my Portuguese, especially the slang.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I routinely watch the Sony Channel when I&#8217;m in Brazil. I see shows like Seinfeld and Fraser in English with Portuguese subtitles. It has enhanced my Portuguese, especially the slang.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/comment-page-2/#comment-221253</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/#comment-221253</guid>
		<description>I dunno, Scott, all I know is that poster ads in any DVD-rentals in Europe are exactly the same as in any Blockbuster back in the states. And that I can watch most of US-made hospital-soap, shoot-em-up-soap, supernatural-soap, and traditional soap TV stuff on local channels. Even, amazingly, a courtroom-soap like Boston Legal. I have to assume it&#039;s not a coincidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I dunno, Scott, all I know is that poster ads in any <span class="caps">DVD</span>-rentals in Europe are exactly the same as in any Blockbuster back in the states. And that I can watch most of US-made hospital-soap, shoot-em-up-soap, supernatural-soap, and traditional soap TV stuff on local channels. Even, amazingly, a courtroom-soap like Boston Legal. I have to assume it&#8217;s not a coincidence.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: novakant</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/comment-page-1/#comment-221252</link>
		<dc:creator>novakant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:23:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/#comment-221252</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Yes, but few of them are made for foreign consumption.&lt;/i&gt;

Well, they don&#039;t really need to be made for foreign consumption, as an example I give you &lt;a&gt;Derrick&lt;/a&gt; which is as German as it gets, yet:

&lt;i&gt;The series gained enormous popularity and was aired in more than 100 countries worldwide. In fact, there have only been a few areas around the world where Derrick has not penetrated, and the two protagonists long ago established for themselves a place in television history.&lt;/i&gt;

People love British films mainly for their Britishness as the big international success of the Richard Curtis or Ivory/Merchant films shows. French intellectual left-wing art house types have had a prolonged love affair with classic and often rather reactionary US cinema and, perhaps less surprisingly, adore Wenders, Fassbinder and Herzog precisely for their utter Germanness. Films like Y tu mamá también, Amores Perros and City of God have proven that even US audiences can be won over 
to a certain extent by rather exotic foreign fare.

So while I agree that American pop cultural hegemony is currently and for the foreseeable future undeniably dominant and also that the US market is particularly hard to penetrate for reasons outlined by others above, it would be wrong for foreign content providers to try to beat them at their own game, because they can only fail. If you want to put a dent into it, play to your strengths and rely on your own national myths and stereotypes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Yes, but few of them are made for foreign consumption.</i></p>

	<p>Well, they don&#8217;t really need to be made for foreign consumption, as an example I give you <a>Derrick</a> which is as German as it gets, yet:</p>

	<p><i>The series gained enormous popularity and was aired in more than 100 countries worldwide. In fact, there have only been a few areas around the world where Derrick has not penetrated, and the two protagonists long ago established for themselves a place in television history.</i></p>

	<p>People love British films mainly for their Britishness as the big international success of the Richard Curtis or Ivory/Merchant films shows. French intellectual left-wing art house types have had a prolonged love affair with classic and often rather reactionary US cinema and, perhaps less surprisingly, adore Wenders, Fassbinder and Herzog precisely for their utter Germanness. Films like Y tu mam&#225; tambi&#233;n, Amores Perros and City of God have proven that even US audiences can be won over<br />
to a certain extent by rather exotic foreign fare.</p>

	<p>So while I agree that American pop cultural hegemony is currently and for the foreseeable future undeniably dominant and also that the US market is particularly hard to penetrate for reasons outlined by others above, it would be wrong for foreign content providers to try to beat them at their own game, because they can only fail. If you want to put a dent into it, play to your strengths and rely on your own national myths and stereotypes.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Scott Martens</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/comment-page-1/#comment-221243</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Dec 2007 16:29:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/10/balls-on-foreign-languages/#comment-221243</guid>
		<description>Abb, when American TV &amp; film is made specifically for foreign consumption, it is... frankly, crap.  I realized this watching Flemish TV, where the US shows shown are either cheap crap, The Simpsons, or stuff where I end up having to explain things to Flemings.  Local comprehension of Buffy, the Vampire Slayer, for instance, is really poor.  But even Desperate Housewives translates poorly. And Lost... ok, no one understands Lost, so that shouldn&#039;t count.  And which American films make the most abroad?  Those tend to be the plot-free special effects action films.

Japan, India, China, even Latin America to a significant degree have had some success in selling TV and film internationally, even in American markets, and even subtitled.  On pure quality of writing and acting, I&#039;d say that Germany and Quebec seem competitive to me, but have no apparent access to anglophone world distribution, except Quebec to some degree within Canada.  France... ok, they make crap TV and French film has fallen far from its peak.  But I&#039;d still put some brain-rotting Luc Besson thriller up against Roland Emmerich any day.  In terms of music, I suspect that popular French and German music is no more incomprehensible to American audiences than American rap is to European ones.

Robert Feinman: (@45) alas, despite much publicity and myth and a lot of desperate wishing it was so, Canadian French immersion education does not, in fact, on the whole, work.  Immersion students outside areas with active francophone populations do not generally emerge with good enough French to pass Quebec university entrance exams.  (And in my day, the UdM entrance exam was pretty easy.)

This is not terribly shocking.  You take a bunch of English speaking kids and put them together with no francophones except their teachers (not all of whom are themselves native speakers), and no more motivation than average school kids, and it&#039;s not too surprising when the results are mediocre.  The anglos I knew who attended Quebec universities successfully were all either Anglo-Quebecois (and thus people living in at least partially francophone contexts outside of school) and graduates of ordinary English language schools who had either shown talent for French, or who were personally strongly motivated.

San Francisco&#039;s plan - mixing immigrant kids and anglos - is a much better approach than the Canadian way.  This kind of immigrant mixed bilingual education was pioneered in - of all places - Texas under George W. Bush.  (Since it was a good idea, I presume it wasn&#039;t *his* idea.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Abb, when American <span class="caps">TV </span>&#038; film is made specifically for foreign consumption, it is&#8230; frankly, crap.  I realized this watching Flemish TV, where the US shows shown are either cheap crap, The Simpsons, or stuff where I end up having to explain things to Flemings.  Local comprehension of Buffy, the Vampire Slayer, for instance, is really poor.  But even Desperate Housewives translates poorly. And Lost&#8230; ok, no one understands Lost, so that shouldn&#8217;t count.  And which American films make the most abroad?  Those tend to be the plot-free special effects action films.</p>

	<p>Japan, India, China, even Latin America to a significant degree have had some success in selling TV and film internationally, even in American markets, and even subtitled.  On pure quality of writing and acting, I&#8217;d say that Germany and Quebec seem competitive to me, but have no apparent access to anglophone world distribution, except Quebec to some degree within Canada.  France&#8230; ok, they make crap TV and French film has fallen far from its peak.  But I&#8217;d still put some brain-rotting Luc Besson thriller up against Roland Emmerich any day.  In terms of music, I suspect that popular French and German music is no more incomprehensible to American audiences than American rap is to European ones.</p>

	<p>Robert Feinman: (@45) alas, despite much publicity and myth and a lot of desperate wishing it was so, Canadian French immersion education does not, in fact, on the whole, work.  Immersion students outside areas with active francophone populations do not generally emerge with good enough French to pass Quebec university entrance exams.  (And in my day, the UdM entrance exam was pretty easy.)</p>

	<p>This is not terribly shocking.  You take a bunch of English speaking kids and put them together with no francophones except their teachers (not all of whom are themselves native speakers), and no more motivation than average school kids, and it&#8217;s not too surprising when the results are mediocre.  The anglos I knew who attended Quebec universities successfully were all either Anglo-Quebecois (and thus people living in at least partially francophone contexts outside of school) and graduates of ordinary English language schools who had either shown talent for French, or who were personally strongly motivated.</p>

	<p>San Francisco&#8217;s plan &#8211; mixing immigrant kids and anglos &#8211; is a much better approach than the Canadian way.  This kind of immigrant mixed bilingual education was pioneered in &#8211; of all places &#8211; Texas under George W. Bush.  (Since it was a good idea, I presume it wasn&#8217;t <strong>his</strong> idea.)</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk: basic
Page Caching using disk: enhanced

Served from: crookedtimber.org @ 2012-02-13 07:58:42 -->
