Comments on: The Dead of Winter http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 22 Nov 2009 07:34:27 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Roy Belmont http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-222791 Roy Belmont Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:41:54 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/#comment-222791 slocum, John Berger: "Yet the positivist utopia was not achieved. And the world today is less controllable by experts, who have mastered what they believe to be its mechanisms, than it was in the nineteenth century. What <i>was</i> achieved was unprecedented scientific and technical progress and, eventually, the subordination of all other values to those of a world market which treats everything, including people and their labour and their lives and their deaths, as a commodity. The unachieved positivist utopia became, instead, the global system of late capitalism wherein all that exists becomes quantifiagble - not simply because it <i>can be</i> reduced to a statistical fact, but because it <i>has been</i> reduced to a commodity. [...] ...the sacralization of Progress as Comfort..." Gasoline costs 3.27gal where I live. What it's really going to cost us looks to be a bit more than that. slocum, John Berger:
“Yet the positivist utopia was not achieved. And the world today is less controllable by experts, who have mastered what they believe to be its mechanisms, than it was in the nineteenth century.
What was achieved was unprecedented scientific and technical progress and, eventually, the subordination of all other values to those of a world market which treats everything, including people and their labour and their lives and their deaths, as a commodity. The unachieved positivist utopia became, instead, the global system of late capitalism wherein all that exists becomes quantifiagble – not simply because it can be reduced to a statistical fact, but because it has been reduced to a commodity.
[...]
…the sacralization of Progress as Comfort…”

Gasoline costs 3.27gal where I live. What it’s really going to cost us looks to be a bit more than that.

]]> By: JanieM http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-222784 JanieM Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:13:23 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/#comment-222784 marshal @34: Is the fact that the Earth is at perihelion on 1/4 part of the reason why the latest sunrise is at about that time? If so, then why is the earliest sunset a couple of weeks before the solstice? (I suppose I could google it, and probably will, but I thought you might know off the top of your head.) marshal @34: Is the fact that the Earth is at perihelion on 1/4 part of the reason why the latest sunrise is at about that time? If so, then why is the earliest sunset a couple of weeks before the solstice? (I suppose I could google it, and probably will, but I thought you might know off the top of your head.)

]]> By: stostosto http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-222780 stostosto Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:25:24 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/#comment-222780 Regarding the Malthusian Edge: I read that the most critical time of the year in ancient agricultural societies wasn't winter solstice but in fact more often summer - right before the autumn harvest. If the previous years' yield was meager, stocks ran empty in the course of spring and early summer. <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Year-1000-What-First-Millennium/dp/0316511579" rel="nofollow">Lacey & Danziger: The Year 1000</a> Regarding the Malthusian Edge: I read that the most critical time of the year in ancient agricultural societies wasn’t winter solstice but in fact more often summer – right before the autumn harvest. If the previous years’ yield was meager, stocks ran empty in the course of spring and early summer.

Lacey & Danziger: The Year 1000

]]> By: Marshal http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-222762 Marshal Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:02:09 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/#comment-222762 The Earth is at perihelion on January 4th, so the Sun is indeed closer to all of us at the Northern hemisphere winter solstice. The tilt of the rotation axes drives the seasons, not the Earth's orbit. I would say that Newgrange is not a clock, but an astronomical observatory. To make a structure like Newgrange or Stonehenge means that they already had decades if not centuries of astronomical observations behind them. I think that Astronomy is truly the oldest profession; in most cultures, the first structures built tend to have an astronomical purpose or understanding behind them. The Earth is at perihelion on January 4th, so the Sun is indeed closer to all of us at the Northern hemisphere winter solstice.

The tilt of the rotation axes drives the seasons, not the Earth’s orbit.

I would say that Newgrange is not a clock, but an astronomical observatory. To make a structure like Newgrange or Stonehenge means that they already had decades if not centuries of astronomical observations behind them. I think that Astronomy is truly the oldest profession; in most cultures, the first structures built tend to have an astronomical purpose or understanding behind them.

]]> By: O, Happy Solstice, and Business | thirdbIT http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-222760 O, Happy Solstice, and Business | thirdbIT Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:45:02 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/#comment-222760 [...] Healy of Crooked Timber, talking about the giant Celtic clock at Newgrange, and the Winter Solstice: A society—a civilization, if you like—is a hard thing to hold [...] [...] Healy of Crooked Timber, talking about the giant Celtic clock at Newgrange, and the Winter Solstice: A society—a civilization, if you like—is a hard thing to hold [...]

]]> By: Jonathan Edelstein http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-222759 Jonathan Edelstein Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:31:00 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/#comment-222759 Naomi and I were there last summer. Newgrange and Knowth are awesome in the most literal sense of the word - more so than the Pyramids given the level of social organization their builders had to work with and the fact that they were projects of several generations rather than one. Naomi and I were there last summer. Newgrange and Knowth are awesome in the most literal sense of the word – more so than the Pyramids given the level of social organization their builders had to work with and the fact that they were projects of several generations rather than one.

]]> By: PK http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-222743 PK Sun, 23 Dec 2007 03:58:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/#comment-222743 <blockquote> I took my mother for our daily stroll down the boardwalk around noon, and the tide was lower than any I could remember. You could walk to Bird Rock without getting your feet wet</blockquote> It will be even lower Sunday 12/23, 3pm PST. Depending on which Bird Rock in the world you are speaking of, naturally.
I took my mother for our daily stroll down the boardwalk around noon, and the tide was lower than any I could remember. You could walk to Bird Rock without getting your feet wet

It will be even lower Sunday 12/23, 3pm PST. Depending on which Bird Rock in the world you are speaking of, naturally.

]]> By: wood turtle http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-222741 wood turtle Sun, 23 Dec 2007 02:17:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/#comment-222741 We still have the Malthusian edge. I think it's called the food shelf. We still have the Malthusian edge. I think it’s called the food shelf.

]]> By: wood turtle http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-222740 wood turtle Sun, 23 Dec 2007 02:01:19 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/#comment-222740 Maybe our days are a little off. I wonder if another day close gives the desired effect. Maybe our days are a little off. I wonder if another day close gives the desired effect.

]]> By: Joshua Holmes http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-222736 Joshua Holmes Sun, 23 Dec 2007 00:13:47 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/#comment-222736 As if the world needed more proof that the Celts are the handsomest, smartest, most advanced, most wonderful people ever to walk this blessed Earth. As if the world needed more proof that the Celts are the handsomest, smartest, most advanced, most wonderful people ever to walk this blessed Earth.

]]> By: JakeB http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-222735 JakeB Sun, 23 Dec 2007 00:04:31 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/#comment-222735 Barry & Theophylact-- That more sensible explanation occurred to me only after I had my morning coffee. I must remember to avoid making noncaffeinated assumptions in future. Barry & Theophylact—That more sensible explanation occurred to me only after I had my morning coffee. I must remember to avoid making noncaffeinated assumptions in future.

]]> By: Mitchell Young http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-222728 Mitchell Young Sat, 22 Dec 2007 22:14:11 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/#comment-222728 You can read about the DNA of the people of the British Isles here. http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1621766.ece The overwhelming contribution is from neolithic fisherman/farmers. That point is, there is a great deal of genetic continuity between the people that built New Grange and todays Irish...same goes for English/Stonehenge Of course, with Britain and Ireland's immigration policies, that continuity will cease in, oh, about 40 - 60 years. Heck, its already gone in London. You can read about the DNA of the people of the British Isles here.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/article1621766.ece

The overwhelming contribution is from neolithic fisherman/farmers. That point is, there is a great deal of genetic continuity between the people that built New Grange and todays Irish…same goes for English/Stonehenge

Of course, with Britain and Ireland’s immigration policies, that continuity will cease in, oh, about 40 – 60 years. Heck, its already gone in London.

]]> By: stostosto http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-222723 stostosto Sat, 22 Dec 2007 20:33:37 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/#comment-222723 Amazing. Why have I never heard of this..? Amazing. Why have I never heard of this..?

]]> By: Barry http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-222718 Barry Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:46:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/#comment-222718 “Actually, the Sun is closer at the [Northern] Winter Solstice than at the Summer Solstice.” Posted by JakeB: "Not to Ireland. As my girlfriend said after having slightly frozen for two weeks there and then looking at a globe, “Hey! It’s the same latitude as Alaska!”" Yes it is, even to Ireland. The Earth is (IIRC) two million miles closer to the sun at the Winter Solstice than at the Summer Solstice (Northern hemisphere). Not even Ireland's extreme northerly placement can make up for that. On second thought, the weather in winter *might* make up for that - what's two million miles to the Irish rain? “Actually, the Sun is closer at the [Northern] Winter Solstice than at the Summer Solstice.”

Posted by JakeB: “Not to Ireland.

As my girlfriend said after having slightly frozen for two weeks there and then looking at a globe, “Hey! It’s the same latitude as Alaska!””

Yes it is, even to Ireland. The Earth is (IIRC) two million miles closer to the sun at the Winter Solstice than at the Summer Solstice (Northern hemisphere).

Not even Ireland’s extreme northerly placement can make up for that.

On second thought, the weather in winter might make up for that – what’s two million miles to the Irish rain?

]]> By: notsneaky http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/comment-page-1/#comment-222716 notsneaky Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:40:33 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2007/12/22/the-dead-of-winter-2/#comment-222716 John Emerson, don't forget the 'magic strength potion'! John Emerson, don’t forget the ‘magic strength potion’!

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