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	<title>Comments on: Liberte, Suburbie, Fraternite!</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Sadly, No! &#187; The Thing That Should Not Be</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/comment-page-3/#comment-226007</link>
		<dc:creator>Sadly, No! &#187; The Thing That Should Not Be</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 07:22:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/#comment-226007</guid>
		<description>[...] Emerson is Sadly, Right: Jonah’s book is most successful among people who had no concept of fascism at all before they [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] Emerson is Sadly, Right: Jonah&#8217;s book is most successful among people who had no concept of fascism at all before they [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/comment-page-3/#comment-225974</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 01:08:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/#comment-225974</guid>
		<description>Well, ya know, it&#039;s funny you should mention it, but I know of at least two people who stopped listening to his crap largely because I ridiculed it.

And I think that Rush is no longer a factor in the lives of rational people. There are still that hard-core of righties who will never actually change, but that&#039;s about it. He used to be damned near mainstream.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Well, ya know, it&#8217;s funny you should mention it, but I know of at least two people who stopped listening to his crap largely because I ridiculed it.</p>

	<p>And I think that Rush is no longer a factor in the lives of rational people. There are still that hard-core of righties who will never actually change, but that&#8217;s about it. He used to be damned near mainstream.</p>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/comment-page-3/#comment-225930</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 06:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/#comment-225930</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I don’t pay attention to Rush Limbaugh either&lt;/i&gt;

That sure works well.  As a result Rush is on no stations listened to by nobody, right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I don&#8217;t pay attention to Rush Limbaugh either</i></p>

	<p>That sure works well.  As a result Rush is on no stations listened to by nobody, right?</p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/comment-page-3/#comment-225924</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 04:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/#comment-225924</guid>
		<description>Yeah, it&#039;s true: If I ignore Goldberg it does us no good. If you ignore Goldberg, it does us no good. 

If we ALL ignore Goldberg, and when other people ask us what we think of Goldberg, we say &quot;Who, that idiot? I don&#039;t think of him at all.&quot; that does some good. 

 I don&#039;t ignore Goldberg, I frankly deny him. I refuse to even let him sit on a couch at my virtual symposium. In short,  Goldberg is not merely dead to me, but never born.

My daddy used to say &quot;Never get into an argument with an idiot...It just means there are two idiots.&quot; My dad wasn&#039;t all that bright at times, but he nailed that one. When Goldberg spouts this stuff, and we respond, we give it credence. By addressing it, we acknowledge that he is an actual player in the game, worthy of our recognition. Why? He hasn&#039;t earned it. He doesn&#039;t deserve it. I don&#039;t pay attention to Rush Limbaugh either, and Goldberg is nothing but a polysyllabic Limbaugh.


&gt;Charlie, Goldberg’s on national TV and writes for a national &gt;newspaper. Neiwert has no comparable soapbox. Until people like &gt;Goldberg are laughed off the stage, we’re in deperate trouble. &gt;Goldberg is not going to be laughed off the stage.

&gt;You seem to be recommending the tried-and-true “he’s SO &gt;beneath us, ignore hima and he’ll go away” tactic. It doesn’t work.

&gt;posted by john emerson · january 26th, 2008 at 6:47 pm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Yeah, it&#8217;s true: If I ignore Goldberg it does us no good. If you ignore Goldberg, it does us no good.</p>

	<p>If we <span class="caps">ALL</span> ignore Goldberg, and when other people ask us what we think of Goldberg, we say &#8220;Who, that idiot? I don&#8217;t think of him at all.&#8221; that does some good.</p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t ignore Goldberg, I frankly deny him. I refuse to even let him sit on a couch at my virtual symposium. In short,  Goldberg is not merely dead to me, but never born.</p>

	<p>My daddy used to say &#8220;Never get into an argument with an idiot&#8230;It just means there are two idiots.&#8221; My dad wasn&#8217;t all that bright at times, but he nailed that one. When Goldberg spouts this stuff, and we respond, we give it credence. By addressing it, we acknowledge that he is an actual player in the game, worthy of our recognition. Why? He hasn&#8217;t earned it. He doesn&#8217;t deserve it. I don&#8217;t pay attention to Rush Limbaugh either, and Goldberg is nothing but a polysyllabic Limbaugh.</p>


	<p>>Charlie, Goldberg&#8217;s on national TV and writes for a national >newspaper. Neiwert has no comparable soapbox. Until people like >Goldberg are laughed off the stage, we&#8217;re in deperate trouble. >Goldberg is not going to be laughed off the stage.</p>

	<p>>You seem to be recommending the tried-and-true &#8220;he&#8217;s <span class="caps">SO </span>>beneath us, ignore hima and he&#8217;ll go away&#8221; tactic. It doesn&#8217;t work.</p>

	<p>>posted by john emerson &#183; january 26th, 2008 at 6:47 pm</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/comment-page-3/#comment-225887</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 18:47:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/#comment-225887</guid>
		<description>Charlie, Goldberg&#039;s on national TV and writes for a national newspaper. Neiwert has no comparable soapbox. Until people like Goldberg are laughed off the stage, we&#039;re in deperate trouble. Goldberg is not going to be laughed off the stage.

You seem to be recommending the tried-and-true &quot;he&#039;s SO beneath us, ignore hima and he&#039;ll go away&quot; tactic. It doesn&#039;t work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Charlie, Goldberg&#8217;s on national TV and writes for a national newspaper. Neiwert has no comparable soapbox. Until people like Goldberg are laughed off the stage, we&#8217;re in deperate trouble. Goldberg is not going to be laughed off the stage.</p>

	<p>You seem to be recommending the tried-and-true &#8220;he&#8217;s SO beneath us, ignore hima and he&#8217;ll go away&#8221; tactic. It doesn&#8217;t work.</p>
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		<title>By: seth edenbaum</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/comment-page-3/#comment-225851</link>
		<dc:creator>seth edenbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 09:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/#comment-225851</guid>
		<description>sorry, wrong thread</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>sorry, wrong thread</p>
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		<title>By: seth edenbaum</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/comment-page-3/#comment-225848</link>
		<dc:creator>seth edenbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 08:41:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/#comment-225848</guid>
		<description>http://wiredblogs.tripod.com/sterling/8.jpg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><a href="http://wiredblogs.tripod.com/sterling/8.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://wiredblogs.tripod.com/sterling/8.jpg</a></p>
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		<title>By: Charlie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/comment-page-3/#comment-225830</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jan 2008 01:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/#comment-225830</guid>
		<description>Jonah Goldberg is a symptom, not a cause. In the name of whatever you find holy, don&#039;t give that fatuous gasbag even the grudging respect due to a genuine scourge.

He&#039;s a parasite, a little leech who saw an opportunity to ride the coat-tails of the (actual) fascists who are trying to dominate America and reshape it into their own feudal/fascist/kleptocrat dream nation.

He would be disgusting, if he were not so utterly pathetic.



&gt;the U.S. is doomed. Goldberg is going to successfully pull this off.

&gt;You know, Emerson, the fate of the US might not actually depend &gt;on Jonah Goldberg one way or the other.

&gt;posted by lemuel pitkin · january 23rd, 2008 at 4:48 pm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Jonah Goldberg is a symptom, not a cause. In the name of whatever you find holy, don&#8217;t give that fatuous gasbag even the grudging respect due to a genuine scourge.</p>

	<p>He&#8217;s a parasite, a little leech who saw an opportunity to ride the coat-tails of the (actual) fascists who are trying to dominate America and reshape it into their own feudal/fascist/kleptocrat dream nation.</p>

	<p>He would be disgusting, if he were not so utterly pathetic.</p>



	<p>>the U.S. is doomed. Goldberg is going to successfully pull this off.</p>

	<p>>You know, Emerson, the fate of the US might not actually depend >on Jonah Goldberg one way or the other.</p>

	<p>>posted by lemuel pitkin &#183; january 23rd, 2008 at 4:48 pm</p>
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		<title>By: Picador</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/comment-page-3/#comment-225715</link>
		<dc:creator>Picador</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/#comment-225715</guid>
		<description>See, this is just another piece of support for the Liberal Fascism theory. By exterminating elements of &quot;diversity&quot; in German society, Hitler was just trying to achieve the &quot;equality&quot; of Frum&#039;s whitebread America. And we all know how big liberals are on equality. Ergo, Hitler was a liberal. QED.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>See, this is just another piece of support for the Liberal Fascism theory. By exterminating elements of &#8220;diversity&#8221; in German society, Hitler was just trying to achieve the &#8220;equality&#8221; of Frum&#8217;s whitebread America. And we all know how big liberals are on equality. Ergo, Hitler was a liberal. <span class="caps">QED</span>.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/comment-page-3/#comment-225594</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/#comment-225594</guid>
		<description>I have nothing to add except that I truly hope Zenophobia is a fear of &#039;Zen&#039; (52)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I have nothing to add except that I truly hope Zenophobia is a fear of &#8216;Zen&#8217; (52)</p>
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		<title>By: seth edenbaum</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/comment-page-3/#comment-225586</link>
		<dc:creator>seth edenbaum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:09:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/#comment-225586</guid>
		<description>Homogeneity is not community, networks of reciprocal obligation are community. I live in an ethnically and economically heterogeneous neighborhood.  I was out drinking last night with a south asian neighbor: a muslim married to an Irish catholic who and who has property on 3 continents.  [He just walked away from one of his properties in Florida] He owns 3 buildings in NY, a house north of Dublin, and has 30 families of tenant farmers on his family&#039;s land back home. He sends his kids to the local public schools.  We&#039;re both regulars at a local Irish dive with a clientele of Irish and Hispanics and assorted odds and ends. The bartender&#039;s parents were big shots in the security service in communist Krakow, but they ended up with nothing.  &quot;They were honest. They believed&quot;  she says with a shrug.  My neighbor S. says I should ask her out. They both wonder why I haven&#039;t. So do I.
I came home drunk and in no mood to put up with snide comments social democracy and immigrants &quot;speaking in tongues.&quot; 

I repeat: Homogeneity is not community, networks of reciprocal obligation are community.  &quot;Neoliberalism--the doctrine that market exchange is an ethic in itself, capable of acting as a guide for all human action&quot;
Market exchange is not the model for social exchange. It is not the model for community, it is an aspect of it.   I&#039;ve gotten drunk and laughed my ass off with rich and poor on three continents.  People are peasants. All of them.
You sit and chatter and pretend that an education and your capacity for &quot;reason&quot; makes you the exceptions.  It&#039;s a joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Homogeneity is not community, networks of reciprocal obligation are community. I live in an ethnically and economically heterogeneous neighborhood.  I was out drinking last night with a south asian neighbor: a muslim married to an Irish catholic who and who has property on 3 continents.  [He just walked away from one of his properties in Florida] He owns 3 buildings in NY, a house north of Dublin, and has 30 families of tenant farmers on his family&#8217;s land back home. He sends his kids to the local public schools.  We&#8217;re both regulars at a local Irish dive with a clientele of Irish and Hispanics and assorted odds and ends. The bartender&#8217;s parents were big shots in the security service in communist Krakow, but they ended up with nothing.  &#8220;They were honest. They believed&#8221;  she says with a shrug.  My neighbor S. says I should ask her out. They both wonder why I haven&#8217;t. So do I.<br />
I came home drunk and in no mood to put up with snide comments social democracy and immigrants &#8220;speaking in tongues.&#8221;</p>

	<p>I repeat: Homogeneity is not community, networks of reciprocal obligation are community.  &#8220;Neoliberalism&#8212;the doctrine that market exchange is an ethic in itself, capable of acting as a guide for all human action&#8221;<br />
Market exchange is not the model for social exchange. It is not the model for community, it is an aspect of it.   I&#8217;ve gotten drunk and laughed my ass off with rich and poor on three continents.  People are peasants. All of them.<br />
You sit and chatter and pretend that an education and your capacity for &#8220;reason&#8221; makes you the exceptions.  It&#8217;s a joke.</p>
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		<title>By: News from Rob &#187; Open Thread for Night Owls &#38; Early Birds</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/comment-page-3/#comment-225585</link>
		<dc:creator>News from Rob &#187; Open Thread for Night Owls &#38; Early Birds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:09:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/#comment-225585</guid>
		<description>[...] to John Holbo over at Crooked Timber for pointing out a howler from the early pages of David Frum&#8217;s Comeback Conservatism. In this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>[...] to John Holbo over at Crooked Timber for pointing out a howler from the early pages of David Frum&rsquo;s Comeback Conservatism. In this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/comment-page-3/#comment-225561</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/#comment-225561</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Yes, they have more money. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me.</blockquote>Yes, they have more money. ;)</p>
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		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/comment-page-3/#comment-225555</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/#comment-225555</guid>
		<description>Seth-

The Harvey book is sitting on my shelf. (I picked it up after seeing Doug Henwood&#039;s review.) And you&#039;re right, reading it would be a better use of my time than posting on this blog....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Seth-</p>

	<p>The Harvey book is sitting on my shelf. (I picked it up after seeing Doug Henwood&#8217;s review.) And you&#8217;re right, reading it would be a better use of my time than posting on this blog&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Lionel Trilling</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/comment-page-3/#comment-225554</link>
		<dc:creator>Lionel Trilling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 18:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/23/liberte-suburbie-fraternite/#comment-225554</guid>
		<description>Why&#039;re you taking their irritable mental gestures so seriously?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Why&#8217;re you taking their irritable mental gestures so seriously?</p>
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