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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Atlas Shrugged&#8221; Kicks the Ass of &#8220;Fight Club&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: TCO</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/comment-page-2/#comment-226923</link>
		<dc:creator>TCO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2008 01:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Neat experiment/observation.  Very shrewd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Neat experiment/observation.  Very shrewd.</p>
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		<title>By: messy J</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/comment-page-2/#comment-226639</link>
		<dc:creator>messy J</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 03:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Why are you folks thinking so hard about this in the first place?  The &quot;study&quot; is obviously sloppy and lacks any sense of sound scientific methodology; its supposed conclusions are meaningless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Why are you folks thinking so hard about this in the first place?  The &#8220;study&#8221; is obviously sloppy and lacks any sense of sound scientific methodology; its supposed conclusions are meaningless.</p>
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		<title>By: a very public sociologist</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/comment-page-2/#comment-226597</link>
		<dc:creator>a very public sociologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 14:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/#comment-226597</guid>
		<description>Wot? No Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, or Bill O&#039;Reilly?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Wot? No Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, or Bill O&#8217;Reilly?</p>
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		<title>By: SG</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/comment-page-2/#comment-226568</link>
		<dc:creator>SG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 03:17:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>13,51: it could just be that Bloix gave as examples of the &quot;alternative&quot; novels shit american scratch-a-hippy-get-a-catholic novels like &lt;i&gt;Even Cowgirls get the blues&lt;/i&gt; and novels which people read to show how broad-minded they are, but never really understood, like &lt;i&gt;Slaughterhouse 5&lt;/i&gt;. I don&#039;t think that&#039;s changed much. 

And Pride and Prejudice so is chick lit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>13,51: it could just be that Bloix gave as examples of the &#8220;alternative&#8221; novels shit american scratch-a-hippy-get-a-catholic novels like <i>Even Cowgirls get the blues</i> and novels which people read to show how broad-minded they are, but never really understood, like <i>Slaughterhouse 5</i>. I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s changed much.</p>

	<p>And Pride and Prejudice so is chick lit.</p>
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		<title>By: quicksand</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/comment-page-2/#comment-226558</link>
		<dc:creator>quicksand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 00:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/#comment-226558</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Which is to say that it’s not surprising that smart teenagers gravitate toward Rand. What would portend the end of civilization would be a demonstration that smart college-educated twentysomethings were still enthralled.&lt;/i&gt;

And what do the predispositions of thirty-something bloggers for major magazines and almost-mainstream Republican presidential candidates tend to prophesy?  I&#039;m almost afraid to ask.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Which is to say that it&#8217;s not surprising that smart teenagers gravitate toward Rand. What would portend the end of civilization would be a demonstration that smart college-educated twentysomethings were still enthralled.</i></p>

	<p>And what do the predispositions of thirty-something bloggers for major magazines and almost-mainstream Republican presidential candidates tend to prophesy?  I&#8217;m almost afraid to ask.</p>
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		<title>By: Hattie</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/comment-page-2/#comment-226546</link>
		<dc:creator>Hattie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 21:48:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ah, class and the classics. Some things never change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ah, class and the classics. Some things never change.</p>
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		<title>By: GreatZamfir</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/comment-page-2/#comment-226491</link>
		<dc:creator>GreatZamfir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>In the same vein, I am always surprised when a radio station plays a top whatever from say, 40 years ago. There is alot of rubbish in there, and the classics you expect are rare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>In the same vein, I am always surprised when a radio station plays a top whatever from say, 40 years ago. There is alot of rubbish in there, and the classics you expect are rare.</p>
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		<title>By: JP Stormcrow</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/comment-page-2/#comment-226486</link>
		<dc:creator>JP Stormcrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;i&gt;What interests me is how conventional the books are. When I was in school many years ago, there was a definite sense of an alternative literature. &lt;/i&gt; + &lt;i&gt;The hippies all morphed into yuppie accountants &lt;/i&gt;

Or perhaps you are both mistakenly combining a variant of the &quot;Big Chill fallacy&quot; (everyone was an alternative/hippie in the relevant time frame) with an incomplete understanding of the principle that &quot;there are more ways of being different than being the same&quot; that governs what type of thing actually shows up on aggregated top 10 list. We might be surprised at the mainstream &quot;tripe&quot; that what would show up from a similar exercise in the &#039;60s/70s/80/90s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>What interests me is how conventional the books are. When I was in school many years ago, there was a definite sense of an alternative literature. </i> + <i>The hippies all morphed into yuppie accountants </i></p>

	<p>Or perhaps you are both mistakenly combining a variant of the &#8220;Big Chill fallacy&#8221; (everyone was an alternative/hippie in the relevant time frame) with an incomplete understanding of the principle that &#8220;there are more ways of being different than being the same&#8221; that governs what type of thing actually shows up on aggregated top 10 list. We might be surprised at the mainstream &#8220;tripe&#8221; that what would show up from a similar exercise in the &#8216;60s/70s/80/90s.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Wisse</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/comment-page-2/#comment-226478</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Wisse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>13, bloix: &lt;i&gt;What interests me is how conventional the books are. When I was in school many years ago, there was a definite sense of an alternative literature. &lt;/i&gt;

The hippies all morphed into yuppie accountants and their children despise them and have burned all their books.

Or perhaps tripe like Da Da Vinci Code is now mainstream rather than alternative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>13, bloix: <i>What interests me is how conventional the books are. When I was in school many years ago, there was a definite sense of an alternative literature. </i></p>

	<p>The hippies all morphed into yuppie accountants and their children despise them and have burned all their books.</p>

	<p>Or perhaps tripe like Da Da Vinci Code is now mainstream rather than alternative.</p>
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		<title>By: JP Stormcrow</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/comment-page-1/#comment-226471</link>
		<dc:creator>JP Stormcrow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Actually I think the AnAnalysisThatMakesYouDumb guy has quite the interesting underlying data set, but showing the SAT correlation is way down the list of interesting things you could do with the data (but is not unsurprising in today&#039;s fucked up US News Ranking-permeated environment) I can&#039;t find the raw lists by school, but you can see a lot of it by looking at the individual book data (it seems to not show the books not on the Top 100 overall list.)

A few observations:
How &lt;i&gt;similar&lt;/i&gt; the lists actually are across a broad swath of colleges. 
As mentioned above how many times a book shows up, period, is more interesting than its &quot;SAT score&quot;. 
Where/if the Bible shows up in your list is surely an interesting marker.  
Where/if Harry Potter shows up in your list is surely an interesting marker. (The ubiquity of the book, often at the top (it is at Harvard &amp; Princeton), is a testament to something.)
I would like to see the schools ranked by &quot;The Devil Quotient&quot; - basically where Harry Potter is placed relative to the Bible. Max DQ is HP #1, Bible not in top 10, Min DQ is the reverse.
It would be interesting to see the full lists of the few schools with almost none of their top 10 on the top 100. (Amherst was 1, had only Cat&#039;s Cradle, Hendrix only had HP, there might be a few with none on th top 10).
There are a lot more interesting characteristics of colleges to correlate with the lists than SAT score.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Actually I think the AnAnalysisThatMakesYouDumb guy has quite the interesting underlying data set, but showing the <span class="caps">SAT</span> correlation is way down the list of interesting things you could do with the data (but is not unsurprising in today&#8217;s fucked up <span class="caps">US </span>News Ranking-permeated environment) I can&#8217;t find the raw lists by school, but you can see a lot of it by looking at the individual book data (it seems to not show the books not on the Top 100 overall list.)</p>

	<p>A few observations:<br />
How <i>similar</i> the lists actually are across a broad swath of colleges.<br />
As mentioned above how many times a book shows up, period, is more interesting than its &#8220;SAT score&#8221;.<br />
Where/if the Bible shows up in your list is surely an interesting marker.<br />
Where/if Harry Potter shows up in your list is surely an interesting marker. (The ubiquity of the book, often at the top (it is at Harvard &#038; Princeton), is a testament to something.)<br />
I would like to see the schools ranked by &#8220;The Devil Quotient&#8221; &#8211; basically where Harry Potter is placed relative to the Bible. Max DQ is <span class="caps">HP </span>#1, Bible not in top 10, Min DQ is the reverse.<br />
It would be interesting to see the full lists of the few schools with almost none of their top 10 on the top 100. (Amherst was 1, had only Cat&#8217;s Cradle, Hendrix only had HP, there might be a few with none on th top 10).<br />
There are a lot more interesting characteristics of colleges to correlate with the lists than <span class="caps">SAT</span> score.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeN</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/comment-page-1/#comment-226461</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:54:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;d say that &quot;Atlas Shrugged&quot; is brought to you by  the extremely smart computer science/engineering types who otherwise only read Jerry Pournelle and Larry Niven, combined with the legacy/rich kid Republicans who just know that they&#039;re part of the natural elite.

Actually, probably more the smart wannabees who are trying to get themselves into a lifetime position on wingnut welfare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;d say that &#8220;Atlas Shrugged&#8221; is brought to you by  the extremely smart computer science/engineering types who otherwise only read Jerry Pournelle and Larry Niven, combined with the legacy/rich kid Republicans who just know that they&#8217;re part of the natural elite.</p>

	<p>Actually, probably more the smart wannabees who are trying to get themselves into a lifetime position on wingnut welfare.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/comment-page-1/#comment-226458</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 09:11:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/#comment-226458</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If “The Alchemist” is the smartest “science fiction” book in this collection – and is popular with smarter people than almost all the actual intelligent books – then civilisation is truly doomed. That book is just a “literary” version of “The secret”.&lt;/i&gt;
Good grief . . . I thought they meant they were reading Ben Jonson . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>If &#8220;The Alchemist&#8221; is the smartest &#8220;science fiction&#8221; book in this collection &#8211; and is popular with smarter people than almost all the actual intelligent books &#8211; then civilisation is truly doomed. That book is just a &#8220;literary&#8221; version of &#8220;The secret&#8221;.</i><br />
Good grief . . . I thought they meant they were reading Ben Jonson . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/comment-page-1/#comment-226443</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 05:10:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m amazed at how seriously you all are taking this, much more so than the guy who did the &quot;study&quot;.

As for comment 7, I would guess those results have more to do with cultural bias in the SAT&#039;s than anything else.

As for comment 13, I&#039;m sure college kids are reading all kinds of alternative lit, but if you ask a 1000 of them what their favorite books are, the most common ones will be traditional stuff that a couple hundred of those kids have read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m amazed at how seriously you all are taking this, much more so than the guy who did the &#8220;study&#8221;.</p>

	<p>As for comment 7, I would guess those results have more to do with cultural bias in the <span class="caps">SAT</span>&#8217;s than anything else.</p>

	<p>As for comment 13, I&#8217;m sure college kids are reading all kinds of alternative lit, but if you ask a 1000 of them what their favorite books are, the most common ones will be traditional stuff that a couple hundred of those kids have read.</p>
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		<title>By: Rickm</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/comment-page-1/#comment-226440</link>
		<dc:creator>Rickm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 04:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Don&#039;t ignore A Clockwork Orange.  Its pretty low on that scale, and from what I remember, with all the jargon, is a fairly dense and inaccessible book.  Methinks many dummies who listed the book as their favorite probably did so because they liked the movie, rather than liking the book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Don&#8217;t ignore A Clockwork Orange.  Its pretty low on that scale, and from what I remember, with all the jargon, is a fairly dense and inaccessible book.  Methinks many dummies who listed the book as their favorite probably did so because they liked the movie, rather than liking the book.</p>
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		<title>By: Gus</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/atlas-shrugged-kicks-the-ass-of-fight-club/comment-page-1/#comment-226436</link>
		<dc:creator>Gus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 03:56:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I want to see book reports from those kids on each of the books. I would be willing to guess that at least half of people who claim to have read Marquez haven&#039;t actually read him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I want to see book reports from those kids on each of the books. I would be willing to guess that at least half of people who claim to have read Marquez haven&#8217;t actually read him.</p>
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