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	<title>Comments on: Prediction Markets In Republican Spin</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: TCO</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/comment-page-2/#comment-226763</link>
		<dc:creator>TCO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 18:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/#comment-226763</guid>
		<description>Q:  That’s the talking point, yes; but why would someone who is neither rich nor a politician object to it and feel so strongly about it? Isn’t it another wingnut mystery?

A:  Because I&#039;m pro free speech even in cases where it does not directly affect me.  Just like I&#039;m pro lower taxes, even on brackets above mine, etc. etc.  It&#039;s a principle, not a bought vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Q:  That&#8217;s the talking point, yes; but why would someone who is neither rich nor a politician object to it and feel so strongly about it? Isn&#8217;t it another wingnut mystery?</p>

	<p>A:  Because I&#8217;m pro free speech even in cases where it does not directly affect me.  Just like I&#8217;m pro lower taxes, even on brackets above mine, etc. etc.  It&#8217;s a principle, not a bought vote.</p>
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		<title>By: TCO</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/comment-page-2/#comment-226762</link>
		<dc:creator>TCO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Feb 2008 18:10:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/#comment-226762</guid>
		<description>Commenter number 2 is right. (Anythiung better than a Democrap.) That is what the party will go in with and that is what some of the more hackish Repug types will tout (also the judges concern).

But a lot of the base (like me) will stay home with McCain.  Actually I&#039;m thinking about staying home regardless.  Still so pissed at George Bush.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Commenter number 2 is right. (Anythiung better than a Democrap.) That is what the party will go in with and that is what some of the more hackish Repug types will tout (also the judges concern).</p>

	<p>But a lot of the base (like me) will stay home with McCain.  Actually I&#8217;m thinking about staying home regardless.  Still so pissed at George Bush.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff R.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/comment-page-2/#comment-226557</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 23:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/#comment-226557</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not the money limits in the campaign finance reform that are the big problem, it&#039;s the bits banning third party ads during the late weeks of the campaign.  That kind of contempt for the first amendment (what, pray, could it possibly protect if it doesn&#039;t protect, you know, actual political speech), and the rational expectation that any judges he appoints would tend to share that contempt, is the biggest problem with McCain from the neolibertarian wing of the party...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It&#8217;s not the money limits in the campaign finance reform that are the big problem, it&#8217;s the bits banning third party ads during the late weeks of the campaign.  That kind of contempt for the first amendment (what, pray, could it possibly protect if it doesn&#8217;t protect, you know, actual political speech), and the rational expectation that any judges he appoints would tend to share that contempt, is the biggest problem with McCain from the neolibertarian wing of the party&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Houghton</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/comment-page-2/#comment-226485</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Houghton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 14:26:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/#comment-226485</guid>
		<description>John McCain, he of the perfect (0%) NARAL rating &quot;isn’t religious but his pro-life credentials are as good as anyone’s.&quot;  I seen the spin cycle is working full force.  When he matches Angelina Jolie or M. L. Ciccone in adoptions, call again.

You&#039;re all wrong, btw; it&#039;s #2.  Already started with his immigration stance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>John McCain, he of the perfect (0%) <span class="caps">NARAL</span> rating &#8220;isn&#8217;t religious but his pro-life credentials are as good as anyone&#8217;s.&#8221;  I seen the spin cycle is working full force.  When he matches Angelina Jolie or M. L. Ciccone in adoptions, call again.</p>

	<p>You&#8217;re all wrong, btw; it&#8217;s #2.  Already started with his immigration stance.</p>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/comment-page-2/#comment-226455</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 08:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/#comment-226455</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;That’s the talking point, yes; but why would someone who is neither rich nor a politician object to it and feel so strongly about it? Isn’t it another wingnut mystery?&lt;/i&gt;

There are so many awful things to say in answer to this that my head&#039;s asplodin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>That&#8217;s the talking point, yes; but why would someone who is neither rich nor a politician object to it and feel so strongly about it? Isn&#8217;t it another wingnut mystery?</i></p>

	<p>There are so many awful things to say in answer to this that my head&#8217;s asplodin.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/comment-page-2/#comment-226450</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 07:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/#comment-226450</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If money is speech, limiting money is limiting speech.&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s the talking point, yes; but why would someone who is neither rich nor a politician object to it and feel so strongly about it? Isn&#039;t it another wingnut mystery?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>If money is speech, limiting money is limiting speech.</i></p>

	<p>That&#8217;s the talking point, yes; but why would someone who is neither rich nor a politician object to it and feel so strongly about it? Isn&#8217;t it another wingnut mystery?</p>
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		<title>By: Righteous Bubba</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/comment-page-2/#comment-226448</link>
		<dc:creator>Righteous Bubba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 06:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/#comment-226448</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&lt;b&gt;He was pro campaign finance reform.&lt;/b&gt;
Why would people oppose this, at least openly? I can understand how party apparatchiks dislike this, but why would pundits on the web care about it?&lt;/i&gt;

If money is speech, limiting money is limiting speech.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i><b>He was pro campaign finance reform.</b><br />
Why would people oppose this, at least openly? I can understand how party apparatchiks dislike this, but why would pundits on the web care about it?</i></p>

	<p>If money is speech, limiting money is limiting speech.</p>
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		<title>By: david still</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/comment-page-2/#comment-226402</link>
		<dc:creator>david still</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/#comment-226402</guid>
		<description>McCain inherits the Ronnie mantle: both have alzheimers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>McCain inherits the Ronnie mantle: both have alzheimers.</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Kvetch</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/comment-page-2/#comment-226401</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Kvetch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:22:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/#comment-226401</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;While pro-war he was a strong critic of Bush’s handling of the war.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/18/mccain-greatest-critic/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;No, sorry, that&#039;s just not true.&lt;/a&gt; Here, as in so many other areas, McCain has effectively created a &quot;maverick&quot; image for himself that is completely at odds with the facts. And the media has been only too happy to help.

And that, of course, is the answer to the broader question here. For the McCain haters on the right, it&#039;s all about perception. What McCain has &lt;i&gt;done&lt;/i&gt;, the actual votes he&#039;s cast and so forth, are irrelevant--it&#039;s that he&#039;s always managed to carve out this &quot;independent&quot; image for himself even while siding with the conservative base on almost every issue. As movement conservatism in the US shed all pretenses of consistency and coherence in favor of a cult of personality around Bush, McCain refused to play along. Of course it drove them bonkers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>While pro-war he was a strong critic of Bush&#8217;s handling of the war.</i></p>

	<p><a href="http://thinkprogress.org/2007/08/18/mccain-greatest-critic/" rel="nofollow">No, sorry, that&#8217;s just not true.</a> Here, as in so many other areas, McCain has effectively created a &#8220;maverick&#8221; image for himself that is completely at odds with the facts. And the media has been only too happy to help.</p>

	<p>And that, of course, is the answer to the broader question here. For the McCain haters on the right, it&#8217;s all about perception. What McCain has <i>done</i>, the actual votes he&#8217;s cast and so forth, are irrelevant&#8212;it&#8217;s that he&#8217;s always managed to carve out this &#8220;independent&#8221; image for himself even while siding with the conservative base on almost every issue. As movement conservatism in the US shed all pretenses of consistency and coherence in favor of a cult of personality around Bush, McCain refused to play along. Of course it drove them bonkers.</p>
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		<title>By: GreatZamfir</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/comment-page-2/#comment-226392</link>
		<dc:creator>GreatZamfir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/#comment-226392</guid>
		<description>Someguy, you explain quite well why you and some conservatives like McCain, but I don&#039;t really get any wiser why a part of them seems to have serious trouble with him. Here&#039;s your list, with some question why I don&#039;t understand why they are big issues. I am not argueing or something, I really don&#039;t understand:

&lt;i&gt;He voted against Bush’s tax cuts.&lt;/i&gt;
Sure, but from a &#039;keep the budget balanced&#039; POV. Here in Europe at least that&#039;s easy to spin as a plus for conservatives, not a con.

&lt;i&gt;He was pro campaign finance reform.&lt;/i&gt;
Why would people oppose this, at least openly? I can understand how party apparatchiks dislike this, but why would pundits on the web care about it? 

&lt;i&gt;While pro-war he was a strong critic of Bush’s handling of the war.&lt;/i&gt; 
By now, that can hardly count against him. Sounds like pretty much the best position to appeal to hawkish people at this stage.

&lt;i&gt;He is against torture.&lt;/i&gt; 
I&#039;ll leave this one.

&lt;i&gt;He is for amnesty.&lt;/i&gt;
I thought Bush was too? Perhaps I am mistaken

&lt;i&gt;Somewhat environmentally friendly. Admits global warming is an issue.&lt;/i&gt;
I understand why this might hurt his image 

So, altogether I am still a bit in the dark. I see why they might prefer someone else, but he still appears as a very reasonable candidate, form a conservative point of view. Apparently he just doesn&#039;t fit in or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Someguy, you explain quite well why you and some conservatives like McCain, but I don&#8217;t really get any wiser why a part of them seems to have serious trouble with him. Here&#8217;s your list, with some question why I don&#8217;t understand why they are big issues. I am not argueing or something, I really don&#8217;t understand:</p>

	<p><i>He voted against Bush&#8217;s tax cuts.</i><br />
Sure, but from a &#8216;keep the budget balanced&#8217; <span class="caps">POV</span>. Here in Europe at least that&#8217;s easy to spin as a plus for conservatives, not a con.</p>

	<p><i>He was pro campaign finance reform.</i><br />
Why would people oppose this, at least openly? I can understand how party apparatchiks dislike this, but why would pundits on the web care about it?</p>

	<p><i>While pro-war he was a strong critic of Bush&#8217;s handling of the war.</i><br />
By now, that can hardly count against him. Sounds like pretty much the best position to appeal to hawkish people at this stage.</p>

	<p><i>He is against torture.</i><br />
I&#8217;ll leave this one.</p>

	<p><i>He is for amnesty.</i><br />
I thought Bush was too? Perhaps I am mistaken</p>

	<p><i>Somewhat environmentally friendly. Admits global warming is an issue.</i><br />
I understand why this might hurt his image</p>

	<p>So, altogether I am still a bit in the dark. I see why they might prefer someone else, but he still appears as a very reasonable candidate, form a conservative point of view. Apparently he just doesn&#8217;t fit in or something.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin James</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/comment-page-2/#comment-226388</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/#comment-226388</guid>
		<description>How McCain is perceived by the conservatives depends on how Clinton contrasts herself with him.

The best strategy may be for her to run to the RIGHT of McCain to avoid having the conservative base rally around him as the anti-Hillary.

She could come out and say, John and I have the same positions but I&#039;m the better leader.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>How McCain is perceived by the conservatives depends on how Clinton contrasts herself with him.</p>

	<p>The best strategy may be for her to run to the <span class="caps">RIGHT</span> of McCain to avoid having the conservative base rally around him as the anti-Hillary.</p>

	<p>She could come out and say, John and I have the same positions but I&#8217;m the better leader.</p>
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		<title>By: SomeGuy</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/comment-page-2/#comment-226377</link>
		<dc:creator>SomeGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/#comment-226377</guid>
		<description>Also you could actually read what the folks at NRO are saying.

Which not that suprisingly is McCain yeeeech, but hey he does have a lifetime ACU rating of 83%, he is good on Iraq, he isn&#039;t Hilary, he is electable, and hey he isn&#039;t Hilary, and did I mention he isn&#039;t Hilary or Obama?

And the answer in a landside is 

Folks closer to me will sport this type of bumper sticker

Vote America in 08.  Vote McCain.

While the NRO guys look like they will have this type of bumper sticker.

With a big red circle and line 

Hilary = Hitler = Fascism.

The scare will be Hilary instead of terrorists.  

Or maybe Hilary in bed with the terrorists?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Also you could actually read what the folks at <span class="caps">NRO</span> are saying.</p>

	<p>Which not that suprisingly is McCain yeeeech, but hey he does have a lifetime <span class="caps">ACU</span> rating of 83%, he is good on Iraq, he isn&#8217;t Hilary, he is electable, and hey he isn&#8217;t Hilary, and did I mention he isn&#8217;t Hilary or Obama?</p>

	<p>And the answer in a landside is</p>

	<p>Folks closer to me will sport this type of bumper sticker</p>

	<p>Vote America in 08.  Vote McCain.</p>

	<p>While the <span class="caps">NRO</span> guys look like they will have this type of bumper sticker.</p>

	<p>With a big red circle and line</p>

	<p>Hilary = Hitler = Fascism.</p>

	<p>The scare will be Hilary instead of terrorists.</p>

	<p>Or maybe Hilary in bed with the terrorists?</p>
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		<title>By: socraticsilence</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/comment-page-2/#comment-226375</link>
		<dc:creator>socraticsilence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:14:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/#comment-226375</guid>
		<description>Against Obama, I think the base might just be angry enough at Mccain to sit out, bu agisnt Hillary?! Are you kidding Tom Tancredo would vote a Illegal Immigrant president if it meant defeating Hillary, the average GOP base voter would honestly vote for Osama Bin Laden before sitting out and letting Hillary win.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Against Obama, I think the base might just be angry enough at Mccain to sit out, bu agisnt Hillary?! Are you kidding Tom Tancredo would vote a Illegal Immigrant president if it meant defeating Hillary, the average <span class="caps">GOP</span> base voter would honestly vote for Osama Bin Laden before sitting out and letting Hillary win.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Massimo</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/comment-page-2/#comment-226370</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Massimo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:57:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/#comment-226370</guid>
		<description>They&#039;ll spend the general-election season trashing Hillary or Obama and never mention McCain. Remember, these are Republicans. They don&#039;t think they have to explain what they will do. All they think they have to do, alcoholic-style, is scare people into thinking the alternative is worse.

Will it work? Probably not. And they know it. But McCain is this year&#039;s Bob Dole. They figure they&#039;re gonna lose, might as well throw whoever out there, then lay low for four or eight years. As Digby has written so eloquently, the way they work it doesn&#039;t matter all that much whether they&#039;re in charge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>They&#8217;ll spend the general-election season trashing Hillary or Obama and never mention McCain. Remember, these are Republicans. They don&#8217;t think they have to explain what they will do. All they think they have to do, alcoholic-style, is scare people into thinking the alternative is worse.</p>

	<p>Will it work? Probably not. And they know it. But McCain is this year&#8217;s Bob Dole. They figure they&#8217;re gonna lose, might as well throw whoever out there, then lay low for four or eight years. As Digby has written so eloquently, the way they work it doesn&#8217;t matter all that much whether they&#8217;re in charge.</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/comment-page-1/#comment-226369</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:51:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/prediction-markets-in-republican-spin/#comment-226369</guid>
		<description>Oh, you mean internally, between the wingnuts. Yeah, sure. The guy actually killed people by dropping bombs from an airplane and he liked it - how bad can he be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Oh, you mean internally, between the wingnuts. Yeah, sure. The guy actually killed people by dropping bombs from an airplane and he liked it &#8211; how bad can he be.</p>
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