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	<title>Comments on: A million foreclosures</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Kent</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-226512</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 17:43:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/#comment-226512</guid>
		<description>But most of Edwards&#039; support came from conservatives!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>But most of Edwards&#8217; support came from conservatives!</p>
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		<title>By: Down and Out of Sài Gòn</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-226422</link>
		<dc:creator>Down and Out of Sài Gòn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jan 2008 00:02:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/#comment-226422</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;As for Edwards not doing too well-it may be due to Democratic primary and party voters being actually more conservative than the population as a whole. That is something to consider.&lt;/i&gt;

That explains a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>As for Edwards not doing too well-it may be due to Democratic primary and party voters being actually more conservative than the population as a whole. That is something to consider.</i></p>

	<p>That explains a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: dave heasman</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-226420</link>
		<dc:creator>dave heasman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 23:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/#comment-226420</guid>
		<description>seen this?

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2008/01/30/10576/a-simple-solution-to-subprime-problems/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>seen this?</p>

	<p><a href="http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2008/01/30/10576/a-simple-solution-to-subprime-problems/" rel="nofollow">http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2008/01/30/10576/a-simple-solution-to-subprime-problems/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-226407</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 22:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/#comment-226407</guid>
		<description>Especially if you factor in most of the people in the former group have probably convinced themselves &lt;i&gt;their&lt;/i&gt; situation was different to the other flippers/equity milkers, and they had good reason to do what they did and they would have had no trouble if it wasn&#039;t for the irresponsible borrowers and flippers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Especially if you factor in most of the people in the former group have probably convinced themselves <i>their</i> situation was different to the other flippers/equity milkers, and they had good reason to do what they did and they would have had no trouble if it wasn&#8217;t for the irresponsible borrowers and flippers.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-226400</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:21:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/#comment-226400</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not &lt;i&gt;personally&lt;/i&gt; tone deaf- I have no love whatsoever for the a-holes who milked imaginary equity from their houses and then walked away having banked far more money than I&#039;ll ever see (though the lenders also deserve to lose because of &lt;i&gt;their&lt;/i&gt; greed and stupidity). But what I will &lt;i&gt;guarantee&lt;/i&gt; you is that this line of argument will not play well with voters anxious about their own futures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m not <i>personally</i> tone deaf- I have no love whatsoever for the a-holes who milked imaginary equity from their houses and then walked away having banked far more money than I&#8217;ll ever see (though the lenders also deserve to lose because of <i>their</i> greed and stupidity). But what I will <i>guarantee</i> you is that this line of argument will not play well with voters anxious about their own futures.</p>
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		<title>By: Slocum</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-226389</link>
		<dc:creator>Slocum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 20:32:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/#comment-226389</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Am I being cynical? Sure. I learned that from watching Republicans. Turnabout is fair play.&lt;/i&gt;

There&#039;s clever cynical and stupid cynical.  The stupid cynical move, I think, would be to be completely tone-deaf to the issue of responsibility and pretend that greed or reckless behavior on the part of borrowers played no role whatsoever.  

It strikes me that a politically smarter approach is to acknowledge that the group of defaulters includes both speculating house-flippers who deserve worse than they&#039;re getting and people who used their homes as ATMs in order to live far beyond their means -- but also financially unsophisticated working class people who were conned into &#039;teaser rate&#039; refinancing that may cost them a home they&#039;ve lived in for many years.  And to propose remedies targeted at the latter but not the former.

As Edwards demonstrates, the pure populist approach just doesn&#039;t seem to be selling all that well -- not even in the Democratic primaries let alone the general election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>Am I being cynical? Sure. I learned that from watching Republicans. Turnabout is fair play.</i></p>

	<p>There&#8217;s clever cynical and stupid cynical.  The stupid cynical move, I think, would be to be completely tone-deaf to the issue of responsibility and pretend that greed or reckless behavior on the part of borrowers played no role whatsoever.</p>

	<p>It strikes me that a politically smarter approach is to acknowledge that the group of defaulters includes both speculating house-flippers who deserve worse than they&#8217;re getting and people who used their homes as ATMs in order to live far beyond their means&#8212;but also financially unsophisticated working class people who were conned into &#8216;teaser rate&#8217; refinancing that may cost them a home they&#8217;ve lived in for many years.  And to propose remedies targeted at the latter but not the former.</p>

	<p>As Edwards demonstrates, the pure populist approach just doesn&#8217;t seem to be selling all that well&#8212;not even in the Democratic primaries let alone the general election.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-226374</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/#comment-226374</guid>
		<description>Thanks! I knew I could count on you. Please do keep it up, and more importantly encourage your candidates to do the same. Hillary&#039;s going to need your help.

Am I being cynical? Sure. I learned that from watching Republicans. Turnabout is fair play.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Thanks! I knew I could count on you. Please do keep it up, and more importantly encourage your candidates to do the same. Hillary&#8217;s going to need your help.</p>

	<p>Am I being cynical? Sure. I learned that from watching Republicans. Turnabout is fair play.</p>
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		<title>By: Slocum</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-226373</link>
		<dc:creator>Slocum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 19:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/#comment-226373</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I would like to encourage our Republican friends to go on bashing debtors at every opportunity. Quite a winning strategy under current circumstances.&lt;/i&gt;

It cuts both ways -- most Americans know people who took cash out of their house through refinancing and lines of credit at every opportunity.  They also know there were a lot of speculators in the market flipping houses.  Propose policies that will bail all those folks out and a lot of ordinary people who were careful with their money, and you&#039;ll make those people feel like chumps and they&#039;ll resent it. 

But Americans also know there were also plenty of people who were persuaded by unscrupulous loan originators/scammers to take out mortgages with onerous interest rate resets and prepayment penalties that they could possibly afford.  And people will want to see help for people in those situations and will be angry to see them take all the blame for their predicaments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>I would like to encourage our Republican friends to go on bashing debtors at every opportunity. Quite a winning strategy under current circumstances.</i></p>

	<p>It cuts both ways&#8212;most Americans know people who took cash out of their house through refinancing and lines of credit at every opportunity.  They also know there were a lot of speculators in the market flipping houses.  Propose policies that will bail all those folks out and a lot of ordinary people who were careful with their money, and you&#8217;ll make those people feel like chumps and they&#8217;ll resent it.</p>

	<p>But Americans also know there were also plenty of people who were persuaded by unscrupulous loan originators/scammers to take out mortgages with onerous interest rate resets and prepayment penalties that they could possibly afford.  And people will want to see help for people in those situations and will be angry to see them take all the blame for their predicaments.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-226363</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 18:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/#comment-226363</guid>
		<description>I would like to encourage our Republican friends to go on bashing debtors at every opportunity. Quite a winning strategy under current circumstances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I would like to encourage our Republican friends to go on bashing debtors at every opportunity. Quite a winning strategy under current circumstances.</p>
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		<title>By: Nix</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-226355</link>
		<dc:creator>Nix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:38:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/#comment-226355</guid>
		<description>The URL for this article suggests that its original title was &#039;Two million foreclosures&#039;.

At this rate (halving every, what, six hours or so?) there&#039;ll only be about fifty foreclosures by this time next month ;}

(I was talking to a broker last month who said that the foreclosure wave was &#039;a myth&#039;. I suspect he&#039;s now eating his words, or at least his bonus.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The <span class="caps">URL</span> for this article suggests that its original title was &#8216;Two million foreclosures&#8217;.</p>

	<p>At this rate (halving every, what, six hours or so?) there&#8217;ll only be about fifty foreclosures by this time next month ;}</p>

	<p>(I was talking to a broker last month who said that the foreclosure wave was &#8216;a myth&#8217;. I suspect he&#8217;s now eating his words, or at least his bonus.)</p>
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		<title>By: Slocum</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-226344</link>
		<dc:creator>Slocum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 17:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/#comment-226344</guid>
		<description>&quot;foreclosure has taken over from bankruptcy as the primary mode of financial catastrophe.&quot;

&quot;Second, most mortgages are non-recourse, meaning that the lender can take the house but cannot recover the debt from the borrowers income or other assets.&quot;

Those two statements are mutually contradictory -- as you note, in the U.S. walking away from a house and mortgage doesn&#039;t result in financial disaster.  At least not for the borrower.  Which explains why this has been so disastrous for lenders and mortgage holders (and holders of mortgage-backed securities).  In fact, the bubble was a gold-mine for many people -- they repeatedly refinanced their house, taking out tens of thousands of &#039;new equity&#039; at a shot, spent it all, and now can walk away without paying any of it back.  Here&#039;s an extreme case of people who managed to supplement their income somewhere between half a million and a million dollars over a five year period:

http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/2007/12/19/heloc-abuse/

It&#039;s worth pointing out that this no-recourse system is also ideal for speculators who made a bundle flipping houses during the run-up.  They got to keep any profits they made and turned the last batch of houses they were holding back to the bank (which was not really a big deal since they generally put in virtually no equity).

By the way, UK, you&#039;re next.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8220;foreclosure has taken over from bankruptcy as the primary mode of financial catastrophe.&#8221;</p>

	<p>&#8220;Second, most mortgages are non-recourse, meaning that the lender can take the house but cannot recover the debt from the borrowers income or other assets.&#8221;</p>

	<p>Those two statements are mutually contradictory&#8212;as you note, in the U.S. walking away from a house and mortgage doesn&#8217;t result in financial disaster.  At least not for the borrower.  Which explains why this has been so disastrous for lenders and mortgage holders (and holders of mortgage-backed securities).  In fact, the bubble was a gold-mine for many people&#8212;they repeatedly refinanced their house, taking out tens of thousands of &#8216;new equity&#8217; at a shot, spent it all, and now can walk away without paying any of it back.  Here&#8217;s an extreme case of people who managed to supplement their income somewhere between half a million and a million dollars over a five year period:</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/2007/12/19/heloc-abuse/" rel="nofollow">http://www.irvinehousingblog.com/2007/12/19/heloc-abuse/</a></p>

	<p>It&#8217;s worth pointing out that this no-recourse system is also ideal for speculators who made a bundle flipping houses during the run-up.  They got to keep any profits they made and turned the last batch of houses they were holding back to the bank (which was not really a big deal since they generally put in virtually no equity).</p>

	<p>By the way, UK, you&#8217;re next.</p>
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		<title>By: lemuel pitkin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-226340</link>
		<dc:creator>lemuel pitkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/#comment-226340</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;certain small portions of the population as a whole-women, gays, minorities, etc.&lt;/i&gt;

Um, you need to rethink this one, Jim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>certain small portions of the population as a whole-women, gays, minorities, etc.</i></p>

	<p>Um, you need to rethink this one, Jim.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim S.</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-226334</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim S.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/#comment-226334</guid>
		<description>Sorry, the American people once supported 90% top income tax rates, it could happen again.  That is, if the left would start advocating these causes, instead of programs that benefit only certain small portions of the population as a  whole-women, gays, minorities, etc.
As for Edwards not doing too well-it may be due to Democratic primary and party voters being actually more conservative than the population as a whole.  That is something to consider.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Sorry, the American people once supported 90% top income tax rates, it could happen again.  That is, if the left would start advocating these causes, instead of programs that benefit only certain small portions of the population as a  whole-women, gays, minorities, etc.<br />
As for Edwards not doing too well-it may be due to Democratic primary and party voters being actually more conservative than the population as a whole.  That is something to consider.</p>
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		<title>By: SamChevre</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-226330</link>
		<dc:creator>SamChevre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/#comment-226330</guid>
		<description>keith/derek/barry,

It seems a review of what the bankruptcy reform bill actually did would be helpful, as you are obviously very confused.

Chapter 7 (liquidation/clean slate) bankruptcy is still available automatically, provided you: (1) Go to credit counseling first and (2) have a household income less than the state &quot;family with 2 children&quot; median (about $70,000 in VA).  Otherwise, (if you have above average income), you have to show that Chapter 13 is not appropriate for some reason.

Chapter 13 (5-year restructuring) bankruptcy is still available, on pretty much the same terms as before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>keith/derek/barry,</p>

	<p>It seems a review of what the bankruptcy reform bill actually did would be helpful, as you are obviously very confused.</p>

	<p>Chapter 7 (liquidation/clean slate) bankruptcy is still available automatically, provided you: (1) Go to credit counseling first and (2) have a household income less than the state &#8220;family with 2 children&#8221; median (about $70,000 in VA).  Otherwise, (if you have above average income), you have to show that Chapter 13 is not appropriate for some reason.</p>

	<p>Chapter 13 (5-year restructuring) bankruptcy is still available, on pretty much the same terms as before.</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Danby</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/comment-page-1/#comment-226317</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Danby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/01/30/two-million-foreclosures/#comment-226317</guid>
		<description>Calculated Risk had a story of a guy who, finding himself underwater on his current house, had bought another (now much cheaper) house while his credit was still good, and was gonna stop payments on the old one as soon as he moved.  This could be one more reinforcing mechanism as prices slide. 

I&#039;ve seen little discussion outside Calculated Risk of legislative efforts to raise the cap on mortgage guarantees, which seems like a really bad idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Calculated Risk had a story of a guy who, finding himself underwater on his current house, had bought another (now much cheaper) house while his credit was still good, and was gonna stop payments on the old one as soon as he moved.  This could be one more reinforcing mechanism as prices slide.</p>

	<p>I&#8217;ve seen little discussion outside Calculated Risk of legislative efforts to raise the cap on mortgage guarantees, which seems like a really bad idea.</p>
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