Comments on: Kucinichmemtum http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:53:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Matt McIrvin http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/comment-page-1/#comment-226969 Matt McIrvin Tue, 05 Feb 2008 13:05:17 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/#comment-226969 I knew some bloggers who are liberals (<i>not</i> liberal bloggers in the sense of being big political junkies) who lamented that nobody was supporting Kucinich even though he was right about all the big issues; and some people who were impressed by him after he scored high on a "which candidate do you match?" Internet quiz, though they may not have become actual supporters. They weren't netroots types, who are more into strategic partisanship. The Ron Paul phenomenon was far more impressive, though the Internet acts as a magnifier for this sort of thing. I knew some bloggers who are liberals (not liberal bloggers in the sense of being big political junkies) who lamented that nobody was supporting Kucinich even though he was right about all the big issues; and some people who were impressed by him after he scored high on a “which candidate do you match?” Internet quiz, though they may not have become actual supporters. They weren’t netroots types, who are more into strategic partisanship. The Ron Paul phenomenon was far more impressive, though the Internet acts as a magnifier for this sort of thing.

]]> By: JJ http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/comment-page-1/#comment-226830 JJ Mon, 04 Feb 2008 04:40:40 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/#comment-226830 Well, part of the problem here is that "liberal" doesn't mean "left" or "progressive." So, while "liberals" like the fellow who wrote the piece (as well as many of the bloggers named in this thread) essentially support DLC or DLC-lite positions, it is no surprise that they liked neither DK or JE. And, in any case, it doesn't matter since we now are stuck with two "liberals" HIlary and Barak. Well, part of the problem here is that “liberal” doesn’t mean “left” or “progressive.” So, while “liberals” like the fellow who wrote the piece (as well as many of the bloggers named in this thread) essentially support DLC or DLC-lite positions, it is no surprise that they liked neither DK or JE. And, in any case, it doesn’t matter since we now are stuck with two “liberals” HIlary and Barak.

]]> By: greensmile http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/comment-page-1/#comment-226824 greensmile Mon, 04 Feb 2008 03:30:09 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/#comment-226824 I am fond of generalizations. But of all the ways you can put your foot in your mouth, the generalization is the size 13 with hobnails, fresh from treading the pig sty. I am fond of generalizations. But of all the ways you can put your foot in your mouth, the generalization is the size 13 with hobnails, fresh from treading the pig sty.

]]> By: Matt Weiner http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/comment-page-1/#comment-226813 Matt Weiner Mon, 04 Feb 2008 02:15:18 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/#comment-226813 Let me stick up for Kerry's 2004 debate prep team. Kerry crushed Bush in the debates. Let me stick up for Kerry’s 2004 debate prep team. Kerry crushed Bush in the debates.

]]> By: Michael Bérubé http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/comment-page-1/#comment-226767 Michael Bérubé Sun, 03 Feb 2008 19:27:23 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/#comment-226767 Gore had a "war room" in 2000? Dang, I'd almost forgotten. It was in Alaska, right? Did it operate out of Fairbanks or Nome? Gore had a “war room” in 2000? Dang, I’d almost forgotten. It was in Alaska, right? Did it operate out of Fairbanks or Nome?

]]> By: Mudge http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/comment-page-1/#comment-226753 Mudge Sun, 03 Feb 2008 17:11:51 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/#comment-226753 kos has always stated that his objective is to elect progressive candidates. Kuchinich, regardless of his positions, was never electable and kos would, on that basis alone, personally reject him. Commenters at his site seem to be independent thinkers, not robots, so I'd expect a wide range of opinions at the site about Kuchinich. My personal opinion is that his name was too dificult to spell, so he was mentioned less often. kos has always stated that his objective is to elect progressive candidates. Kuchinich, regardless of his positions, was never electable and kos would, on that basis alone, personally reject him. Commenters at his site seem to be independent thinkers, not robots, so I’d expect a wide range of opinions at the site about Kuchinich.

My personal opinion is that his name was too dificult to spell, so he was mentioned less often.

]]> By: rea http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/comment-page-1/#comment-226744 rea Sun, 03 Feb 2008 13:58:04 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/#comment-226744 <i>“Ron Klain was a member of Bill Clinton’s 1992 campaign policy and debate preparation staff; was the chief of staff for Vice President Al Gore during the 1996 election; ran Mr. Gore’s “war room” in 2000; and led debate preparation for Senator John Kerry’s 2004 presidential bid.” </i> Mow, there's a resume that maeks him sound comjpletely clueless . . . “Ron Klain was a member of Bill Clinton’s 1992 campaign policy and debate preparation staff; was the chief of staff for Vice President Al Gore during the 1996 election; ran Mr. Gore’s “war room” in 2000; and led debate preparation for Senator John Kerry’s 2004 presidential bid.”

Mow, there’s a resume that maeks him sound comjpletely clueless . . .

]]> By: Matt Weiner http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/comment-page-1/#comment-226743 Matt Weiner Sun, 03 Feb 2008 13:44:12 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/#comment-226743 This bit from the article also seems dubious: <i>Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, the two candidates who have drawn some of the sharpest criticism on progressive blogs</i> First, I'm not sure "the two candidates who have drawn some of the sharpest criticism" is meaningful. Second, the reason they draw sharp criticism is that there's a chance they might win the nomination. Biden is <a href="http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=site%3Aatrios.blogspot.com+biden&btnG=Google+Search" rel="nofollow">not a blogospheric favorite</a>, but I don't think you saw much criticism of him in the primary season because why bother? This bit from the article also seems dubious:

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, the two candidates who have drawn some of the sharpest criticism on progressive blogs

First, I’m not sure “the two candidates who have drawn some of the sharpest criticism” is meaningful. Second, the reason they draw sharp criticism is that there’s a chance they might win the nomination. Biden is not a blogospheric favorite, but I don’t think you saw much criticism of him in the primary season because why bother?

]]> By: praisegod barebones http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/comment-page-1/#comment-226736 praisegod barebones Sun, 03 Feb 2008 12:00:25 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/#comment-226736 'if you evaluated liberal bloggers based on their actual positions on policy, rather than on their choice of preferred candidate, I think Kucinich would score a lot higher' Arguably,that's true of registered Democrats as a whole, not just blogospheric ones. But why support someone whose going to attract such unfavourable media coverage that he just won't be able to win? (cf - Edwards,J.) ‘if you evaluated liberal bloggers based on their actual positions on policy, rather than on their choice of preferred candidate, I think Kucinich would score a lot higher’

Arguably,that’s true of registered Democrats as a whole, not just blogospheric ones. But why support someone whose going to attract such unfavourable media coverage that he just won’t be able to win?

(cf – Edwards,J.)

]]> By: praisegod barebones http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/comment-page-1/#comment-226734 praisegod barebones Sun, 03 Feb 2008 11:44:03 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/#comment-226734 I think that the author of the NYT article might have been committing the following fallacy: Most Kucinich supporters I'm aware of are posting on the internet THEREFORE Most people posting on the internet are Kucinich supporters. Incidentally, one reason for Kos's vitriol against Kucinich (other than conservatism, which I think is a factor) is that in 2004 he was seen to have undermined Dean in Iowa by getting supporters in precincts where he wasn't viable to vote against Dean. This is something which someone who was well-in formed about the political blogosphere might well have known, and could probably have found out quite easily... I think that the author of the NYT article might have been committing the following fallacy:

Most Kucinich supporters I’m aware of are posting on the internet

THEREFORE

Most people posting on the internet are Kucinich supporters.

Incidentally, one reason for Kos’s vitriol against Kucinich (other than conservatism, which I think is a factor) is that in 2004 he was seen to have undermined Dean in Iowa by getting supporters in precincts where he wasn’t viable to vote against Dean. This is something which someone who was well-in formed about the political blogosphere might well have known, and could probably have found out quite easily…

]]> By: matt mckeon http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/comment-page-1/#comment-226720 matt mckeon Sun, 03 Feb 2008 03:30:00 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/#comment-226720 Ron Paul said exactly what a lot of people wanted to hear: the war was a mistake, and the government is overintrusive. The left and right think there is too much government for different reasons, and Paul appealed to both. He was saying, at first glance, what people believed to be true. He also had a lunatic fringe element in his beliefs and associations that would doom him without the awkward attempts by the party leadership to pretend he wasn't there. Kucinich was an underfunded liberal in a large field of progressives with better name recognition, like Edwards. He does have a wife so beautiful it hurts to look directly at her, but her looks are one of those stupid things people comment on when the real issues are too hard. Ron Paul said exactly what a lot of people wanted to hear: the war was a mistake, and the government is overintrusive. The left and right think there is too much government for different reasons, and Paul appealed to both. He was saying, at first glance, what people believed to be true. He also had a lunatic fringe element in his beliefs and associations that would doom him without the awkward attempts by the party leadership to pretend he wasn’t there.

Kucinich was an underfunded liberal in a large field of progressives with better name recognition, like Edwards. He does have a wife so beautiful it hurts to look directly at her, but her looks are one of those stupid things people comment on when the real issues are too hard.

]]> By: Colin Danby http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/comment-page-1/#comment-226717 Colin Danby Sun, 03 Feb 2008 03:11:19 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/#comment-226717 speaking of which you can now add the Grateful Dead, or what's left of them, to the Obamasphere. Edge of the American West has an entertaining discussion of an Obama video, http://edgeofthewest.wordpress.com/2008/02/02/what-do-you-think-of-this/ now featuring the long-awaited Bitch Ph.D. endorsement. speaking of which you can now add the Grateful Dead, or what’s left of them, to the Obamasphere.

Edge of the American West has an entertaining discussion of an Obama video,

http://edgeofthewest.wordpress.com/2008/02/02/what-do-you-think-of-this/

now featuring the long-awaited Bitch Ph.D. endorsement.

]]> By: Colin Danby http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/comment-page-1/#comment-226716 Colin Danby Sun, 03 Feb 2008 03:04:08 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/#comment-226716 So why are the bloggotubes still ignoring Mike Gravel, he of the excellent web ads? So why are the bloggotubes still ignoring Mike Gravel, he of the excellent web ads?

]]> By: novakant http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/comment-page-1/#comment-226706 novakant Sun, 03 Feb 2008 00:51:25 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/#comment-226706 While the author didn't do his research, there is actually a grain of truth in his assessment: if you evaluated liberal bloggers based on their actual positions on policy, rather than on their choice of preferred candidate, I think Kucinich would score <i>a lot</i> higher. Let's face it: Obama and Clinton are lame compromises. While the author didn’t do his research, there is actually a grain of truth in his assessment: if you evaluated liberal bloggers based on their actual positions on policy, rather than on their choice of preferred candidate, I think Kucinich would score a lot higher.

Let’s face it: Obama and Clinton are lame compromises.

]]> By: stm177 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/comment-page-1/#comment-226705 stm177 Sun, 03 Feb 2008 00:49:43 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/02/kucinichmemtum/#comment-226705 I frequently read threads on Fark.com, and Kucinich's support there came from people ogling his wife. I frequently read threads on Fark.com, and Kucinich’s support there came from people ogling his wife.

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