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	<title>Comments on: Maternity nurses in the UK?</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: chloe</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-227449</link>
		<dc:creator>chloe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 22:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Most of you don&#039;t even know what a maternity nurse is/or what they do, and have all these people posting negitive comments been left alone with a newborn?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Most of you don&#8217;t even know what a maternity nurse is/or what they do, and have all these people posting negitive comments been left alone with a newborn?</p>
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		<title>By: Ingrid Robeyns</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-227398</link>
		<dc:creator>Ingrid Robeyns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 19:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>So I think I should have qualified my enthusiasm for this proposal from the Tories -- it would be a good proposal if it came on top of a decent maternity care programme, not if there are still more urgent things needed as pj&#039;s and katherine&#039;s comments make clear. Thanks for these explanations and clarifications.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>So I think I should have qualified my enthusiasm for this proposal from the Tories&#8212;it would be a good proposal if it came on top of a decent maternity care programme, not if there are still more urgent things needed as pj&#8217;s and katherine&#8217;s comments make clear. Thanks for these explanations and clarifications.</p>
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		<title>By: Katherine</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-227383</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 12:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>But I doubt very much that the Tories would want to put money into those services, since that would involve the &quot;i&quot; word.  Hypocrites.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>But I doubt very much that the Tories would want to put money into those services, since that would involve the &#8220;i&#8221; word.  Hypocrites.</p>
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		<title>By: Katherine</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-227357</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 21:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/#comment-227357</guid>
		<description>Regarding the latter paragraph of comment #30, it has been a little-commented-upon consequence of the NHS charges put in place to put off so-called &quot;health tourists&quot; that some women of insecure immigration status have had difficulty accessing maternity services.

Strictly speaking, maternity services are counted as primary services, meaning that they must be provided up front without cost.  However, the costs can be chased up afterwards and there have been unpleasant stories of NHS debt collectors chasing impoverished new mothers for the costs of their maternity care.  And some frankly scary stories of women being put off scheduling much needed cesarians because they know they will have to shoulder the cost later.  Some women have even been known to turn up at A &amp; E to give birth, having fallen through the cracks altogether until right at the point of giving birth.  

Now &lt;i&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; is the sort of thing that plays havoc with your maternal mortality rates, as well as, y&#039;know, resulting in dead babies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Regarding the latter paragraph of comment #30, it has been a little-commented-upon consequence of the <span class="caps">NHS</span> charges put in place to put off so-called &#8220;health tourists&#8221; that some women of insecure immigration status have had difficulty accessing maternity services.</p>

	<p>Strictly speaking, maternity services are counted as primary services, meaning that they must be provided up front without cost.  However, the costs can be chased up afterwards and there have been unpleasant stories of <span class="caps">NHS</span> debt collectors chasing impoverished new mothers for the costs of their maternity care.  And some frankly scary stories of women being put off scheduling much needed cesarians because they know they will have to shoulder the cost later.  Some women have even been known to turn up at A &#038; E to give birth, having fallen through the cracks altogether until right at the point of giving birth.</p>

	<p>Now <i>that</i> is the sort of thing that plays havoc with your maternal mortality rates, as well as, y&#8217;know, resulting in dead babies.</p>
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		<title>By: PJ</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-227334</link>
		<dc:creator>PJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 18:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/#comment-227334</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;Could you expand on the issue of not having enough midwives—is that a serious issue? You’re not telling me that there are women in the UK who have to give birth without a midwife or a qualified doctor being present, I hope?&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Women will always have a widwife with them (if they so wish) but a maternity unit may well be full and a pregnant women near or in labour sent to another unit, probably further away. Shortages mean that homebirths can be difficult to arrange.

Women with low risk pregnancies delivering at home or in community midwife lead units do not have obstetrics cover in the UK and any complications will require ambulance transfer. You won&#039;t have a doctor present at the birth of a normal delivery.

In terms of reducing maternal mortality, the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cemach.org.uk/getdoc/7cbb498a-f176-4cb5-ab83-6549bb19a886/Maternal-and-Perinatal-Health.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;conifidential enquiry&lt;/a&gt; reports: &lt;i&gt;&quot;Despite the limitations, the assessors classified 64 % of Direct deaths and 40% of Indirect deaths as shown in Table 1.11 as having some degree of substandard care. Table 1.12 gives the degree of substandard care compared to the previous two Reports. The overall rate of sub-standard care for women dying of Direct causes has fallen a little compared to the 67% reported for the last triennium whilst there has been a very small rise in the rate for Indirect deaths. By contrast, only about 10 % of both Coincidental and Late deaths had elements of sub-standard care. The major concerns about the care provided for these groups of women were a lack of liaison and communication between the health and social services in providing support for vulnerable young girls and a lack of multidisciplinary or co-ordinated care.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Incidentally, comparisons between the UK and other countries should be borne with at least some caveats since many women avoided or had difficulty accessing maternity care: &lt;i&gt;&quot;Many of the women who died found it difficult to seek, or to maintain contact with, maternity and/or other health services. The many possible reasons for this have been discussed throughout this Chapter and the main characteristics of the women who found it diffi cult to attend are summarised in Table 1.27.&quot;&lt;/i&gt; where these factors are ethnicity, language skills, employment, domestic abuse, immigration status, and social services/child protection issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>&#8220;Could you expand on the issue of not having enough midwives&#8212;is that a serious issue? You&#8217;re not telling me that there are women in the UK who have to give birth without a midwife or a qualified doctor being present, I hope?&#8221;</i></p>

	<p>Women will always have a widwife with them (if they so wish) but a maternity unit may well be full and a pregnant women near or in labour sent to another unit, probably further away. Shortages mean that homebirths can be difficult to arrange.</p>

	<p>Women with low risk pregnancies delivering at home or in community midwife lead units do not have obstetrics cover in the UK and any complications will require ambulance transfer. You won&#8217;t have a doctor present at the birth of a normal delivery.</p>

	<p>In terms of reducing maternal mortality, the <a href="http://www.cemach.org.uk/getdoc/7cbb498a-f176-4cb5-ab83-6549bb19a886/Maternal-and-Perinatal-Health.aspx" rel="nofollow">conifidential enquiry</a> reports: <i>&#8220;Despite the limitations, the assessors classified 64 % of Direct deaths and 40% of Indirect deaths as shown in Table 1.11 as having some degree of substandard care. Table 1.12 gives the degree of substandard care compared to the previous two Reports. The overall rate of sub-standard care for women dying of Direct causes has fallen a little compared to the 67% reported for the last triennium whilst there has been a very small rise in the rate for Indirect deaths. By contrast, only about 10 % of both Coincidental and Late deaths had elements of sub-standard care. The major concerns about the care provided for these groups of women were a lack of liaison and communication between the health and social services in providing support for vulnerable young girls and a lack of multidisciplinary or co-ordinated care.&#8221;</i></p>

	<p>Incidentally, comparisons between the UK and other countries should be borne with at least some caveats since many women avoided or had difficulty accessing maternity care: <i>&#8220;Many of the women who died found it difficult to seek, or to maintain contact with, maternity and/or other health services. The many possible reasons for this have been discussed throughout this Chapter and the main characteristics of the women who found it diffi cult to attend are summarised in Table 1.27.&#8221;</i> where these factors are ethnicity, language skills, employment, domestic abuse, immigration status, and social services/child protection issues.</p>
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		<title>By: praisegod barebones</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-227278</link>
		<dc:creator>praisegod barebones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 08:02:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/#comment-227278</guid>
		<description>&#039;this is not a feature of the system, it’s a feature of the professional.&#039;

I suspect it may also be a feature of being young and inexperienced (20 years old). The obvious solution is to make sure that no-one does the job who hasn&#039;t got several years of experience of doing it before.

I think that the real &#039;danger&#039; of having a kraamzorg is that they  might do things like making sure that the father was able to change a nappy within forty-eight hours of the child being born. That - rather than concerns about jackboots - is what I suspect might be really fueling resistance to the idea in some people&#039;s minds...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>&#8216;this is not a feature of the system, it&#8217;s a feature of the professional.&#8217;</p>

	<p>I suspect it may also be a feature of being young and inexperienced (20 years old). The obvious solution is to make sure that no-one does the job who hasn&#8217;t got several years of experience of doing it before.</p>

	<p>I think that the real &#8216;danger&#8217; of having a kraamzorg is that they  might do things like making sure that the father was able to change a nappy within forty-eight hours of the child being born. That &#8211; rather than concerns about jackboots &#8211; is what I suspect might be really fueling resistance to the idea in some people&#8217;s minds&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: nick s</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-227256</link>
		<dc:creator>nick s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 23:24:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/#comment-227256</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;In the U.S. anyway—perhaps that’s not a danger elsewhere.&lt;/i&gt;

&#039;In your head&#039;, shurely? There&#039;s also a risk that your public garbage collection might turn into a surveillance system that rifles through the trash for samizdat. This means you should store all of your home refuse in your bedroom.

Further: maternity leave is the slavery of liberal fascism.

There are a few issues here: the need to ensure safe childbirth without overly medicalising the process; the provision of midwives; and some provision to make sure support&#039;s there in the first few weeks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>In the U.S. anyway&#8212;perhaps that&#8217;s not a danger elsewhere.</i></p>

	<p>&#8216;In your head&#8217;, shurely? There&#8217;s also a risk that your public garbage collection might turn into a surveillance system that rifles through the trash for samizdat. This means you should store all of your home refuse in your bedroom.</p>

	<p>Further: maternity leave is the slavery of liberal fascism.</p>

	<p>There are a few issues here: the need to ensure safe childbirth without overly medicalising the process; the provision of midwives; and some provision to make sure support&#8217;s there in the first few weeks.</p>
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		<title>By: Slocum</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-227194</link>
		<dc:creator>Slocum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 13:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/#comment-227194</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The home health visitor is the jack-booted thug of liberal fascism.&lt;/i&gt;

Nah -- I think they usually wear sensible shoes:

http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/nc/200310030.asp
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/06/10/BA118333.DTL

But sometimes they do bring a couple guys in boots along just in case:

http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/tx/200712041.asp
http://www.gopusa.com/ohio/news/thewalshes0303p.shtml

I don&#039;t mean to make too much of this--and obviously parents have no right to abuse their children behind closed doors.  But it&#039;s not implausible that a universal postnatal home nursing program might morph into this kind of social work with the nurses/social workers tasked with assessing the fitness of the parents and making recommendations for continuing supervision.  In the U.S. anyway -- perhaps that&#039;s not a danger elsewhere.

Certainly this is a minor issue in comparison to the kind of no-knock paramilitary SWAT raids that Radley Balko has been documenting, but there are similarities: agents of the state feeling like they have a free hand in dealing with certain kinds of people -- poor and minority people, in case of the SWAT-teams raids, and home-schooling evangelicals in the social work cases (whereas I know with near certainty that neither would ever happen in my upper-middle class neighborhood).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>The home health visitor is the jack-booted thug of liberal fascism.</i></p>

	<p>Nah&#8212;I think they usually wear sensible shoes:</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/nc/200310030.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/nc/200310030.asp</a><br />
<a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/06/10/BA118333.DTL" rel="nofollow">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/06/10/BA118333.DTL</a></p>

	<p>But sometimes they do bring a couple guys in boots along just in case:</p>

	<p><a href="http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/tx/200712041.asp" rel="nofollow">http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/tx/200712041.asp</a><br />
<a href="http://www.gopusa.com/ohio/news/thewalshes0303p.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.gopusa.com/ohio/news/thewalshes0303p.shtml</a></p>

	<p>I don&#8217;t mean to make too much of this&#8212;and obviously parents have no right to abuse their children behind closed doors.  But it&#8217;s not implausible that a universal postnatal home nursing program might morph into this kind of social work with the nurses/social workers tasked with assessing the fitness of the parents and making recommendations for continuing supervision.  In the U.S. anyway&#8212;perhaps that&#8217;s not a danger elsewhere.</p>

	<p>Certainly this is a minor issue in comparison to the kind of no-knock paramilitary <span class="caps">SWAT</span> raids that Radley Balko has been documenting, but there are similarities: agents of the state feeling like they have a free hand in dealing with certain kinds of people&#8212;poor and minority people, in case of the <span class="caps">SWAT</span>-teams raids, and home-schooling evangelicals in the social work cases (whereas I know with near certainty that neither would ever happen in my upper-middle class neighborhood).</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-227187</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 13:09:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/#comment-227187</guid>
		<description>Someone should write a song about this called &quot;Maternity in the UK&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Someone should write a song about this called &#8220;Maternity in the UK&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Katherine</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-227177</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 11:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/#comment-227177</guid>
		<description>Like Pewi&#039;s wife @6, I just had my daughter by cesarian (well, a month ago) - I couldn&#039;t wait to get home , but I don&#039;t know that I would have wanted a maternity nurse there or to have to say &quot;no&quot; to one - I had my mother for nearly 2 weeks and my husband for 3 weeks - yet another person would have just got in the way.  I had 3 follow up midwife visits, and now the health visitor a couple of times and the clinic to go to.  Higher need women, theoretcically, get more.  What would have helped me much more than a maternity nurse would have been more paternity leave for my husband, who is hating being back at work so soon.  

There are plently of women without such support for whom this could be essential help.   But when the funding for the post-birth midwife visits and health visitor visits have been slashed consistently, you have to wonder about the thinking behind these proposals.  Sounds like announcement-itis to me - after all, it would be much less dramatic if they&#039;d said &quot;we&#039;ll put the money back where it used to be&quot;, wouldn&#039;t it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Like Pewi&#8217;s wife @6, I just had my daughter by cesarian (well, a month ago) &#8211; I couldn&#8217;t wait to get home , but I don&#8217;t know that I would have wanted a maternity nurse there or to have to say &#8220;no&#8221; to one &#8211; I had my mother for nearly 2 weeks and my husband for 3 weeks &#8211; yet another person would have just got in the way.  I had 3 follow up midwife visits, and now the health visitor a couple of times and the clinic to go to.  Higher need women, theoretcically, get more.  What would have helped me much more than a maternity nurse would have been more paternity leave for my husband, who is hating being back at work so soon.</p>

	<p>There are plently of women without such support for whom this could be essential help.   But when the funding for the post-birth midwife visits and health visitor visits have been slashed consistently, you have to wonder about the thinking behind these proposals.  Sounds like announcement-itis to me &#8211; after all, it would be much less dramatic if they&#8217;d said &#8220;we&#8217;ll put the money back where it used to be&#8221;, wouldn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>By: Ingrid Robeyns</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-227175</link>
		<dc:creator>Ingrid Robeyns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 11:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/#comment-227175</guid>
		<description>Chris, there are indeed fairly strict rules, but a nurse can decide to do more/other work if she sees that this is what is most/very needed in the household. For example, if the father has his hands full with the older child(ren), then she may clean the kitchen or vacuum clean the living room, whereas this is not something she officially has to do. I don&#039;t think any of them would start ironing the father&#039;s shirts. Personally I don&#039;t think this is strange: after all, many professionals in the &#039;care/educational/health sectors&#039; (including teachers!) who are committed to their profession sometimes/often do things that they are not officially required to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Chris, there are indeed fairly strict rules, but a nurse can decide to do more/other work if she sees that this is what is most/very needed in the household. For example, if the father has his hands full with the older child(ren), then she may clean the kitchen or vacuum clean the living room, whereas this is not something she officially has to do. I don&#8217;t think any of them would start ironing the father&#8217;s shirts. Personally I don&#8217;t think this is strange: after all, many professionals in the &#8216;care/educational/health sectors&#8217; (including teachers!) who are committed to their profession sometimes/often do things that they are not officially required to do.</p>
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		<title>By: chris armstrong</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-227172</link>
		<dc:creator>chris armstrong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 10:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/#comment-227172</guid>
		<description>There is certainly a shortage of midwives in the UK. It doesn&#039;t mean that women give birth without them present, but anecdotal evidence does suggest that facilities are often in danger of being centralised (e.g. closing down smaller and more relaxed birthing centres to concentrate provision in large hospitals). Which is not a good thing.

On the kraamzorg and &#039;free housework&#039; thing - I thought there were now fairly strict rules in Holland about exactly what you could ask your nurse to do? They&#039;re not going to iron the father&#039;s shirts, for example?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>There is certainly a shortage of midwives in the UK. It doesn&#8217;t mean that women give birth without them present, but anecdotal evidence does suggest that facilities are often in danger of being centralised (e.g. closing down smaller and more relaxed birthing centres to concentrate provision in large hospitals). Which is not a good thing.</p>

	<p>On the kraamzorg and &#8216;free housework&#8217; thing &#8211; I thought there were now fairly strict rules in Holland about exactly what you could ask your nurse to do? They&#8217;re not going to iron the father&#8217;s shirts, for example?</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Wisse</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-227165</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Wisse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Feb 2008 08:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/#comment-227165</guid>
		<description>Ingrid: &lt;i&gt;My impression is that most mothers in the Netherlands are very happy with the system.&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s because intrusiveness is inbred to the Dutch. This is the country that leaves its curtains open at night, after all.

Haven&#039;t had first hand experience with the kraamzorg as such, but I know my mother was very glad to have them after the birth of my youngest brother and sister.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ingrid: <i>My impression is that most mothers in the Netherlands are very happy with the system.</i></p>

	<p>That&#8217;s because intrusiveness is inbred to the Dutch. This is the country that leaves its curtains open at night, after all.</p>

	<p>Haven&#8217;t had first hand experience with the kraamzorg as such, but I know my mother was very glad to have them after the birth of my youngest brother and sister.</p>
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		<title>By: dutchmarbel</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-227147</link>
		<dc:creator>dutchmarbel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 20:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/#comment-227147</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;By the way, I think that one is not obliged to take kraamzorg, in fact if the parents don’t book it on time (a few months before the birth), they may be too late; and there is a small own contribution to be paid (which may be covered if one has an elaborate health care insurance). Thus, if one does not make the booking or is not willing to pay the parents’ contribution, no nurse will come to your house.&lt;/i&gt;

It is optional, and you can also opt to have it for less than the maximum hours (in my time the max was 8 days and 8 hours per day). Don&#039;t forget that &#039;kraamzorg&#039; is also given for homebirth. In the Netherlands you have to pay a few hundred euro if you want to deliver in hospital and there are no medical reasons for it. So often the woman gives birth at home and the nurse will arrive at or just after the birth.

The diary is mainly a chart with the temp and pulse of the mother and the baby and with the number of wet nappies (when you breastfeed the easiest way to make sure that the baby gets enough milk is to count those).

Monitoring visitors means that she will provide something to drink and eat (traditionally a rusk with aniseed sprinkles) and will ask them politely to leave after half an hour or so - unless the mother specifically requests them to stay longer. It&#039;s more to defend the mother than to keep track of who visits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i>By the way, I think that one is not obliged to take kraamzorg, in fact if the parents don&#8217;t book it on time (a few months before the birth), they may be too late; and there is a small own contribution to be paid (which may be covered if one has an elaborate health care insurance). Thus, if one does not make the booking or is not willing to pay the parents&#8217; contribution, no nurse will come to your house.</i></p>

	<p>It is optional, and you can also opt to have it for less than the maximum hours (in my time the max was 8 days and 8 hours per day). Don&#8217;t forget that &#8216;kraamzorg&#8217; is also given for homebirth. In the Netherlands you have to pay a few hundred euro if you want to deliver in hospital and there are no medical reasons for it. So often the woman gives birth at home and the nurse will arrive at or just after the birth.</p>

	<p>The diary is mainly a chart with the temp and pulse of the mother and the baby and with the number of wet nappies (when you breastfeed the easiest way to make sure that the baby gets enough milk is to count those).</p>

	<p>Monitoring visitors means that she will provide something to drink and eat (traditionally a rusk with aniseed sprinkles) and will ask them politely to leave after half an hour or so &#8211; unless the mother specifically requests them to stay longer. It&#8217;s more to defend the mother than to keep track of who visits.</p>
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		<title>By: Ingrid Robeyns</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/comment-page-1/#comment-227135</link>
		<dc:creator>Ingrid Robeyns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Feb 2008 19:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/06/maternity-nurses-in-the-uk/#comment-227135</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; pj: Personally I think the NHS could do a lot more useful things with £150 million, like provide enough midwives for women at the time they give birth. I don’t think a bit of free housekeeping is going to get those maternal and neonatal mortality rates down.&lt;/i&gt;

I agree with the latter sentence - the maternity nurses enable women to take sufficient rest and make the arrival of a newborn less stressful but they are not going to change mortality rates (at least, I can&#039;t see how that would be so). 

Could you expand on the issue of not having enough midwives -- is that a serious issue? You&#039;re not telling me that there are women in the UK who have to give birth without a midwife or a qualified doctor being present, I hope?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i> pj: Personally I think the <span class="caps">NHS</span> could do a lot more useful things with &#163;150 million, like provide enough midwives for women at the time they give birth. I don&#8217;t think a bit of free housekeeping is going to get those maternal and neonatal mortality rates down.</i></p>

	<p>I agree with the latter sentence &#8211; the maternity nurses enable women to take sufficient rest and make the arrival of a newborn less stressful but they are not going to change mortality rates (at least, I can&#8217;t see how that would be so).</p>

	<p>Could you expand on the issue of not having enough midwives&#8212;is that a serious issue? You&#8217;re not telling me that there are women in the UK who have to give birth without a midwife or a qualified doctor being present, I hope?</p>
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