Comments on: We were never this harsh, even with Davids Bernstein and Kane http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 22 Nov 2009 11:43:48 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: David Bernstein http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/comment-page-1/#comment-228603 David Bernstein Tue, 19 Feb 2008 00:58:45 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/#comment-228603 Is Crooked Timber still around? Is Crooked Timber still around?

]]> By: SG http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/comment-page-1/#comment-228173 SG Fri, 15 Feb 2008 00:22:36 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/#comment-228173 lo, oh bifurcaceous friend, though I own mercy and compassion the dearest traits of noble Man, verily do I find our Honoured Guest's squawking passing incommodious, though it be <i>much italicised</i>, and cannot bear to extend it even that much tolerance as would befit a huegenot. lo, oh bifurcaceous friend, though I own mercy and compassion the dearest traits of noble Man, verily do I find our Honoured Guest’s squawking passing incommodious, though it be much italicised, and cannot bear to extend it even that much tolerance as would befit a huegenot.

]]> By: bi http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/comment-page-1/#comment-228104 bi Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:13:45 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/#comment-228104 Friends, be not ſo hard on our Honored Guest, David Kane. For, he doth endeavor to learn humbly from us all, even whilst he tries to ſhew that he is the greatest, and that we are all utterly wrong. Friends, be not ſo hard on our Honored Guest, David Kane. For, he doth endeavor to learn humbly from us all, even whilst he tries to ſhew that he is the greatest, and that we are all utterly wrong.

]]> By: derek http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/comment-page-1/#comment-228069 derek Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:12:47 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/#comment-228069 dsquared wrote: <i>“Verodobbsical” is almost certainly from “vero” and “Dobbs” – ie, “In the true style of Dobbs”, the author is mocking Mr Dobbs for having a pretentious prose style.</i> Not only that, but I would guess that "a glaring impudence" is a direct quote from Dobbs, that Middleton is flinging back in his face. dsquared wrote: “Verodobbsical” is almost certainly from “vero” and “Dobbs” – ie, “In the true style of Dobbs”, the author is mocking Mr Dobbs for having a pretentious prose style.

Not only that, but I would guess that “a glaring impudence” is a direct quote from Dobbs, that Middleton is flinging back in his face.

]]> By: SG http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/comment-page-1/#comment-228052 SG Thu, 14 Feb 2008 02:59:39 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/#comment-228052 that's hilarious kevin. I couldn't get through the bit about standards, which was laughable, but the R-squared is plumbing new depths. Someone at Deltoid pointed out that Spagat is starting his own conflict research studies centre in Bogota, and Royal Holloway use the data from IBC, so it's in his interest to discredit alternative models and data-sets. The comment is #11 <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2008/02/neil_munro_goes_after_riyadh_l.php#commentsArea" rel="nofollow">here</a>. that’s hilarious kevin. I couldn’t get through the bit about standards, which was laughable, but the R-squared is plumbing new depths.

Someone at Deltoid pointed out that Spagat is starting his own conflict research studies centre in Bogota, and Royal Holloway use the data from IBC, so it’s in his interest to discredit alternative models and data-sets. The comment is #11 here.

]]> By: Banditry » Blog Archive » …and people criticise me for *my* rhetorical style http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/comment-page-1/#comment-228040 Banditry » Blog Archive » …and people criticise me for *my* rhetorical style Thu, 14 Feb 2008 00:46:39 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/#comment-228040 [...] Fine 18th century invective from Captain Christopher Middleton, directed against a random idiot who was talking rubbish on the Pamphletnet - a snip at £2,000. A REJOINDER TO MR. DOBB’S REPLY TO CAPTAIN MIDDLETON; IN WHICH IS EXPOS’D, BOTH HIS WILFUL AND REAL IGNORANCE OF TIDES; &C. HIS JESUITICAL PREVARICATIONS, EVASIONS, FALSITIES, AND FALSE REASONING; HIS AVOIDING TAKING NOTICE OF FACTS, FORMERLY DETECTED AND CHARGED UPON HIM AS INVENTIONS OF HIS OR HIS WITNESSES; THE CHARACTER OF THE LATTER, AND THE PRESENT VIEWS OF THE FORMER, WHICH GAVE RISE TO THE PRESENT DISPUTE. IN A WORD, AN UNPARALELLED DISINGENUITY, AND (TO MAKE USE OF A VERODOBBSICAL FLOWER OF RHETORIC) A GLARING IMPUDENCE, ARE SET IN A FAIR LIGHT. LONDON [...] [...] Fine 18th century invective from Captain Christopher Middleton, directed against a random idiot who was talking rubbish on the Pamphletnet – a snip at £2,000. A REJOINDER TO MR. DOBB’S REPLY TO CAPTAIN MIDDLETON; IN WHICH IS EXPOS’D, BOTH HIS WILFUL AND REAL IGNORANCE OF TIDES; &C. HIS JESUITICAL PREVARICATIONS, EVASIONS, FALSITIES, AND FALSE REASONING; HIS AVOIDING TAKING NOTICE OF FACTS, FORMERLY DETECTED AND CHARGED UPON HIM AS INVENTIONS OF HIS OR HIS WITNESSES; THE CHARACTER OF THE LATTER, AND THE PRESENT VIEWS OF THE FORMER, WHICH GAVE RISE TO THE PRESENT DISPUTE. IN A WORD, AN UNPARALELLED DISINGENUITY, AND (TO MAKE USE OF A VERODOBBSICAL FLOWER OF RHETORIC) A GLARING IMPUDENCE, ARE SET IN A FAIR LIGHT. LONDON [...]

]]> By: Kevin Donoghue http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/comment-page-1/#comment-228029 Kevin Donoghue Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:54:50 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/#comment-228029 A verospagatical paper by an economist on sabbatical! What fun! And indeed, Section 3.1, describing how the author got a high R-squared when he fitted a regression line to three data-points, is one of the funniest things of its kind I've seen - worthy of a Kane Award. Incidentally David, since you are having a go at Daniel Davies for (alleged) misuse of the term "denialist", you might want to have a think about your use of "friends" and "recent" (as in "recent paper"). A verospagatical paper by an economist on sabbatical! What fun! And indeed, Section 3.1, describing how the author got a high R-squared when he fitted a regression line to three data-points, is one of the funniest things of its kind I’ve seen – worthy of a Kane Award.

Incidentally David, since you are having a go at Daniel Davies for (alleged) misuse of the term “denialist”, you might want to have a think about your use of “friends” and “recent” (as in “recent paper”).

]]> By: David Kane http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/comment-page-1/#comment-228012 David Kane Wed, 13 Feb 2008 20:14:50 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/#comment-228012 No such thing as bad publicity, I guess. Latest (<a href="http://personal.rhul.ac.uk/uhte/014/Standards.pdf" rel="nofollow">pdf</a>) about the Lancet studies from Mike Spagat. Crooked Timber readers in Denver (or members of the American Statistical Association going to JSM) are invited to attend a panel that I am organizing on mortality in Iraq. Presenting will be Safaa Amer of NORC, Michael Spagat of Royal Holloway College, University of London, Mohamed Ali of WHO and Debarati Guha-Sapir of WHO Collaborating Centre for Research on Disaster Epidemiology. Would Daniel Davies consider all these folks to be "denialists?" Just curious. I notice that all my Lancet defender friends at Crooked Timber seemed to have vacated the field on this topic. How about a thread devoted to the recent paper (<a href="http://www.cedat.be/Documents/Working_Papers/CREDWPIraqMortalityJune2007.pdf" rel="nofollow">pdf</a>) from CRED? They argue that the L2 number is 4-5 times too large. No such thing as bad publicity, I guess.

Latest (pdf) about the Lancet studies from Mike Spagat.

Crooked Timber readers in Denver (or members of the American Statistical Association going to JSM) are invited to attend a panel that I am organizing on mortality in Iraq. Presenting will be Safaa Amer of NORC, Michael Spagat of Royal Holloway College, University of London, Mohamed Ali of WHO and Debarati Guha-Sapir of WHO Collaborating Centre for Research on Disaster Epidemiology. Would Daniel Davies consider all these folks to be “denialists?” Just curious.

I notice that all my Lancet defender friends at Crooked Timber seemed to have vacated the field on this topic. How about a thread devoted to the recent paper (pdf) from CRED? They argue that the L2 number is 4-5 times too large.

]]> By: Doug K http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/comment-page-1/#comment-228010 Doug K Wed, 13 Feb 2008 19:53:50 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/#comment-228010 not much verodobbsian hits, but quite a bit on the controversy in general.. http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic19-1-77.pdf MIDDLETON, CHRISTOPHER, d. 1770 A vindication of the conduct of Captain Christopher Middleton, in a Late Voyage on Board His Majesty’s Ship the Furnace, for Discovering a North-west Passage to the Western American Ocean. In answer To certain Objections and Aspersions of Arthur Dobbs, Esq; with an appendix: Con- taining The Captain’s Instructions; Councils held; Reports of the Inferior Officers; Letters between Mr. Dobbs, Capt. Middleton, &c. Affidavits and other Vouchers refer’d to in the Captain’s Answers &c. With as much of the Log-Journal as relates to the Discovery. The Whole as lately deliver’d to the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty. To which is Annex’d, An Account of the Extraordinary Degrees and Surprizing Effects of Cold in Hudson’s-Bay, North America, read before the Royal Society. By Chris- topher Middleton, Late Commander of the Furnace and F.R.S. London: Printed by the Author’s Appointment; and Sold by Jacob Robinson, at the Golden-Lion in Ludgate-Street. 1743. [a], 206, 48p. More interesting reading at http://books.google.com/books?id=-m-odt0LgSoC&pg=PA115&lpg=PA115&dq=mr+dobb+s+reply+to+captain+middleton&source=web&ots=aamXqQRrKh&sig=Rp5Llp3zznNuq2hMGih6e-kWVJs Turns out Capt. Middleton was right.. not much verodobbsian hits, but quite a bit on the controversy in general..

http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic19-1-77.pdf
MIDDLETON, CHRISTOPHER,
d. 1770
A vindication of the conduct of Captain Christopher Middleton, in a
Late Voyage on Board His Majesty’s Ship the Furnace, for Discovering a
North-west Passage to the Western American Ocean. In answer
To certain
Objections and Aspersions of Arthur Dobbs, Esq; with an appendix: Con-
taining The Captain’s Instructions; Councils held; Reports of the Inferior
Officers; Letters between Mr. Dobbs, Capt. Middleton, &c. Affidavits and
other Vouchers refer’d to in the Captain’s Answers &c. With as much of
the Log-Journal as relates to the Discovery. The Whole as lately deliver’d
to the Lords Commissioners
of the Admiralty. To which is Annex’d, An
Account of the Extraordinary Degrees and Surprizing Effects of Cold in
Hudson’s-Bay, North America, read before the Royal Society. By Chris-
topher Middleton, Late Commander of the Furnace and F.R.S. London:
Printed by the Author’s Appointment; and Sold by Jacob Robinson, at the
Golden-Lion in Ludgate-Street.
1743.
[a], 206, 48p.

More interesting reading at
http://books.google.com/books?id=-m-odt0LgSoC&pg=PA115&lpg=PA115&dq=mr+dobb+s+reply+to+captain+middleton&source=web&ots=aamXqQRrKh&sig=Rp5Llp3zznNuq2hMGih6e-kWVJs

Turns out Capt. Middleton was right..

]]> By: Luis Enrique http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/comment-page-1/#comment-228004 Luis Enrique Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:54:44 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/#comment-228004 I'd like to know to what extent Kamm's prose is tongue in cheek. He does glory in it, but whether the comic aspect is intended or not, I don't know. I’d like to know to what extent Kamm’s prose is tongue in cheek. He does glory in it, but whether the comic aspect is intended or not, I don’t know.

]]> By: Chris Bertram http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/comment-page-1/#comment-228003 Chris Bertram Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:45:33 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/#comment-228003 Almost certainly right, Daniel. It does offer some possibilities, though. "Verokammsical" or maybe "Verokammical"? Almost certainly right, Daniel. It does offer some possibilities, though.

“Verokammsical” or maybe “Verokammical”?

]]> By: Mrs Tilton http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/comment-page-1/#comment-227999 Mrs Tilton Wed, 13 Feb 2008 18:27:54 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/#comment-227999 Daniel, was it really necessary to spoil a perfectly good bit of charming and euphonious nonsense by offering a plausible explanation? As an aside, if somebody capable of writing what's quoted in the Sotheby's catalogue -- that's just the <i>title</i> of his work! -- finds Dobbs too verodobbsical, I'd hate to have to hack my way through Dobbs himself. Daniel,

was it really necessary to spoil a perfectly good bit of charming and euphonious nonsense by offering a plausible explanation?

As an aside, if somebody capable of writing what’s quoted in the Sotheby’s catalogue—that’s just the title of his work!—finds Dobbs too verodobbsical, I’d hate to have to hack my way through Dobbs himself.

]]> By: DCA http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/comment-page-1/#comment-227991 DCA Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:36:37 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/#comment-227991 If you'd spent a frozen winter in Hudson's Bay, you'd get exited too. If you’d spent a frozen winter in Hudson’s Bay, you’d get exited too.

]]> By: jt http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/comment-page-1/#comment-227990 jt Wed, 13 Feb 2008 17:34:21 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/#comment-227990 Make light of his disengenuity and impudence all you want; the real dig is at the man's <i>willful</i> ignorance of tides. I mean, c'mon! Make light of his disengenuity and impudence all you want; the real dig is at the man’s willful ignorance of tides. I mean, c’mon!

]]> By: dsquared http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/comment-page-1/#comment-227976 dsquared Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:22:15 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/13/we-were-never-this-harsh-even-with-david-bernstein/#comment-227976 "Verodobbsical" is almost certainly from "vero" and "Dobbs" - ie, "In the true style of Dobbs", the author is mocking Mr Dobbs for having a pretentious prose style. “Verodobbsical” is almost certainly from “vero” and “Dobbs” – ie, “In the true style of Dobbs”, the author is mocking Mr Dobbs for having a pretentious prose style.

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