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	<title>Comments on: What I didn&#8217;t find on Wikipedia today.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:56:07 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dhez</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/comment-page-1/#comment-230341</link>
		<dc:creator>Dhez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 12:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/#comment-230341</guid>
		<description>The problem is, if a wikipedian decides he hasn&#039;t read it or heard it on TV then they&#039;ll automatically delete, who wants to bet that when you do create articles on all those individuals some ignorant wikipedian will call for a snap deletion based on non-notable because they couldn&#039;t find anything on one google search (because that is the type of brilliant, indepth research conducted by a lot of wikipedians who go around deleting articles).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The problem is, if a wikipedian decides he hasn&#8217;t read it or heard it on TV then they&#8217;ll automatically delete, who wants to bet that when you do create articles on all those individuals some ignorant wikipedian will call for a snap deletion based on non-notable because they couldn&#8217;t find anything on one google search (because that is the type of brilliant, indepth research conducted by a lot of wikipedians who go around deleting articles).</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Parmenter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/comment-page-1/#comment-230021</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Parmenter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:36:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/#comment-230021</guid>
		<description>Somehow I linked to the CT article, and not to the Shifty Henry entry in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shifty_Henry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Somehow I linked to the CT article, and not to the Shifty Henry entry in Wikipedia:</p>

	<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shifty_Henry" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shifty_Henry</a></p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Parmenter</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/comment-page-1/#comment-230020</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Parmenter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/#comment-230020</guid>
		<description>Look, just write it.  Signed, response #3.

You alone can&#039;t solve the problems with Wikipedia any more than you alone can solve the problems of, say, American sugar policy.  However, when I saw that Wikipedia had no article on Shifty Henry (name-checked in Elvis&#039;s &quot;Jailhouse Rock&quot;), I solved the problem of no &lt;a href rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Shifty Henry&lt;/a&gt; entry.

On the other hand, after 6000 or so contributions, many of them now labelled unsubstantiated, or eviscerated and deracinated by subsequent contributors, etc., my Wikipedia problem is that I just don&#039;t have the stomach for it any more, much more fun in pioneer times, etc. . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Look, just write it.  Signed, response #3.</p>

	<p>You alone can&#8217;t solve the problems with Wikipedia any more than you alone can solve the problems of, say, American sugar policy.  However, when I saw that Wikipedia had no article on Shifty Henry (name-checked in Elvis&#8217;s &#8220;Jailhouse Rock&#8221;), I solved the problem of no <a href rel="nofollow">Shifty Henry</a> entry.</p>

	<p>On the other hand, after 6000 or so contributions, many of them now labelled unsubstantiated, or eviscerated and deracinated by subsequent contributors, etc., my Wikipedia problem is that I just don&#8217;t have the stomach for it any more, much more fun in pioneer times, etc. . . .</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/comment-page-1/#comment-229857</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 21:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/#comment-229857</guid>
		<description>Martin is right about the &quot;just write it&quot; response, but it&#039;s fair to remind everyone that this is a work in progress. For a topic like elections, it makes sense to start with the recent past and work backwards. 

For biography, it would be great if we could get some of the standard reference works (many of which were publicly funded) into the public domain. Their value would be greatly enhanced if the content was in Wikipedia, with the associated cross-referencing and so on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Martin is right about the &#8220;just write it&#8221; response, but it&#8217;s fair to remind everyone that this is a work in progress. For a topic like elections, it makes sense to start with the recent past and work backwards.</p>

	<p>For biography, it would be great if we could get some of the standard reference works (many of which were publicly funded) into the public domain. Their value would be greatly enhanced if the content was in Wikipedia, with the associated cross-referencing and so on.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/comment-page-1/#comment-229844</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 20:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/#comment-229844</guid>
		<description>One thing I&#039;ve noticed is that the wikipedia articles on the 2004 presidential election, for instance, are astonishingly detailed, giving every detail you could possibly want.

The articles on the 1984 election don&#039;t even give you more than the most basic summary of the primary campaign, basically stuff I knew already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>One thing I&#8217;ve noticed is that the wikipedia articles on the 2004 presidential election, for instance, are astonishingly detailed, giving every detail you could possibly want.</p>

	<p>The articles on the 1984 election don&#8217;t even give you more than the most basic summary of the primary campaign, basically stuff I knew already.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mijnheer</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/comment-page-1/#comment-229832</link>
		<dc:creator>mijnheer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 19:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/#comment-229832</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m in a similar position.  I&#039;m in Wikipedia despite having only very minor academic accomplishments, while my father, who was a fairly influential academic and led a remarkable life, is omitted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m in a similar position.  I&#8217;m in Wikipedia despite having only very minor academic accomplishments, while my father, who was a fairly influential academic and led a remarkable life, is omitted.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Wisse</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/comment-page-1/#comment-229768</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Wisse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:24:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/#comment-229768</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a Wikipedian myself, but it always annoys the fuck out of me when somebody finds a real problem with it and is than answered in the vein of #3 and #13. Especially when, as is the case here, the problem is far bigger than any single contributor can fix.

That said, the problem Harry signals is not unique to Wikipedia, but is a general internet problem. I&#039;ve myself noticed it when looking for book reviews; reviews of books published before the mid-nineties are much rarer, especially when these are not books that have stayed in print. 

With Wikipedia, the tendency is often to look for verification and noticability soley online, which again handicaps those people whose achievements happened before hand and are not so wellknown as to have a following online.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m a Wikipedian myself, but it always annoys the fuck out of me when somebody finds a real problem with it and is than answered in the vein of #3 and #13. Especially when, as is the case here, the problem is far bigger than any single contributor can fix.</p>

	<p>That said, the problem Harry signals is not unique to Wikipedia, but is a general internet problem. I&#8217;ve myself noticed it when looking for book reviews; reviews of books published before the mid-nineties are much rarer, especially when these are not books that have stayed in print.</p>

	<p>With Wikipedia, the tendency is often to look for verification and noticability soley online, which again handicaps those people whose achievements happened before hand and are not so wellknown as to have a following online.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Praisegod Barebones</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/comment-page-1/#comment-229766</link>
		<dc:creator>Praisegod Barebones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 12:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/#comment-229766</guid>
		<description>Getting to Bretton Hall by public transport can be a bit of a challenge, if I recall. 

(Not from where I am now - though that would indeed be tough - but also from many parts of Leeds)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Getting to Bretton Hall by public transport can be a bit of a challenge, if I recall.</p>

	<p>(Not from where I am now &#8211; though that would indeed be tough &#8211; but also from many parts of Leeds)</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Praisegod Barebones</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/comment-page-1/#comment-229748</link>
		<dc:creator>Praisegod Barebones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 08:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/#comment-229748</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m part of Tim Brighouse&#039;s fanbase. 

In case Dan Simon hasn&#039;t got round to using the Google, and since Harry&#039;s being a bit coy, the &#039;scandal&#039; was that when he was Chief Education Officer for the British County of Oxfordshire, he sued the then Education secretary John Patten for saying of him in a speech to the Conservative party conference that education in Britain would always have problems &#039;as long as we have nutters like Tim Brighouse hanging around and frightening the kids&#039;(or words to that effect. But I&#039;m fairly sure that the use of the word &#039;nutter&#039; turned out to be legally significant). He won.

This will now no doubt derail the thread into a discussion of the American First Amendment vs British libel laws. Which is probably why Harry was being coy, on reflection. I on the other hand am teaching a course on &#039;On Liberty&#039; this afternoon, and will find it useful preparation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;m part of Tim Brighouse&#8217;s fanbase.</p>

	<p>In case Dan Simon hasn&#8217;t got round to using the Google, and since Harry&#8217;s being a bit coy, the &#8216;scandal&#8217; was that when he was Chief Education Officer for the British County of Oxfordshire, he sued the then Education secretary John Patten for saying of him in a speech to the Conservative party conference that education in Britain would always have problems &#8216;as long as we have nutters like Tim Brighouse hanging around and frightening the kids&#8217;(or words to that effect. But I&#8217;m fairly sure that the use of the word &#8216;nutter&#8217; turned out to be legally significant). He won.</p>

	<p>This will now no doubt derail the thread into a discussion of the American First Amendment vs British libel laws. Which is probably why Harry was being coy, on reflection. I on the other hand am teaching a course on &#8216;On Liberty&#8217; this afternoon, and will find it useful preparation.</p>
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		<title>By: Melissa</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/comment-page-1/#comment-229739</link>
		<dc:creator>Melissa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 05:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/#comment-229739</guid>
		<description>A useful post. I followed the links for Gregg and came to Bretton Hall, whose grounds I know well.

For twenty years, I have been visiting Wakefield and the Sculpture Park is always part of our activities (often on Boxing Day). It is wonderful to get a feel of individual scuptors and schools, and invention from seeing so much in one place. I think it helped developed my eye (if that doesn&#039;t sound pretentious).

If you are near Leeds, arrange for 3 hours out to visit Bretton Hall. It offers stimulation and serenity. Let&#039;s hope Wakefield council can maintain the high standard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>A useful post. I followed the links for Gregg and came to Bretton Hall, whose grounds I know well.</p>

	<p>For twenty years, I have been visiting Wakefield and the Sculpture Park is always part of our activities (often on Boxing Day). It is wonderful to get a feel of individual scuptors and schools, and invention from seeing so much in one place. I think it helped developed my eye (if that doesn&#8217;t sound pretentious).</p>

	<p>If you are near Leeds, arrange for 3 hours out to visit Bretton Hall. It offers stimulation and serenity. Let&#8217;s hope Wakefield council can maintain the high standard.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/comment-page-1/#comment-229736</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 04:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/#comment-229736</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve undermined your post by creating a &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Brighouse&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;stub entry for your dad&lt;/a&gt;. There&#039;s a nice piece about him in the Guardian, which others could use to expand the article. I&#039;ve linked it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;ve undermined your post by creating a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Brighouse" rel="nofollow">stub entry for your dad</a>. There&#8217;s a nice piece about him in the Guardian, which others could use to expand the article. I&#8217;ve linked it.</p>
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		<title>By: John Quiggin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/comment-page-1/#comment-229734</link>
		<dc:creator>John Quiggin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/#comment-229734</guid>
		<description>The problem is more with the Internets in general than with Wikipedia. Alec Clegg isn&#039;t in the top 100 hits on a Google search for &quot;Clegg&quot;, and &quot;Alec Clegg&quot; has only about 1000 hits in total, out of 3 million for Clegg.

Since Wikipedians typically use Google as a primary research tool, people who died before the rise of the Web, but too recently to appear in public domain texts, tend to be under-represented.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The problem is more with the Internets in general than with Wikipedia. Alec Clegg isn&#8217;t in the top 100 hits on a Google search for &#8220;Clegg&#8221;, and &#8220;Alec Clegg&#8221; has only about 1000 hits in total, out of 3 million for Clegg.</p>

	<p>Since Wikipedians typically use Google as a primary research tool, people who died before the rise of the Web, but too recently to appear in public domain texts, tend to be under-represented.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: vivian</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/comment-page-1/#comment-229729</link>
		<dc:creator>vivian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 03:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/#comment-229729</guid>
		<description>Or you could get your dad to join a blog. Maybe he could give occasional video comments if he won&#039;t type? Or maybe he could find someone to transcribe remarks. If all the (nonrelated) people who know about his work are teachers, well, they&#039;ll never have time to deal with wikipedia. He needs some slacker-fans like you have :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Or you could get your dad to join a blog. Maybe he could give occasional video comments if he won&#8217;t type? Or maybe he could find someone to transcribe remarks. If all the (nonrelated) people who know about his work are teachers, well, they&#8217;ll never have time to deal with wikipedia. He needs some slacker-fans like you have :)</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/comment-page-1/#comment-229724</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 02:59:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/#comment-229724</guid>
		<description>I blame old people for not contributing.  Us younguns can&#039;t make sure that wikipedia deals with ancient history.  

@john emerson: if you&#039;re not an established wikipedian, the best option is to irresponsibly start an entry, privacy and accuracy concerns be damned (most articles start out stupid).  It might be deleted, but if not, you get two glorious options: 1)continuing hilarious (or possibly slanderous) inaccuracy, or 2)someone actually cleans it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I blame old people for not contributing.  Us younguns can&#8217;t make sure that wikipedia deals with ancient history.</p>

	<p>@john emerson: if you&#8217;re not an established wikipedian, the best option is to irresponsibly start an entry, privacy and accuracy concerns be damned (most articles start out stupid).  It might be deleted, but if not, you get two glorious options: 1)continuing hilarious (or possibly slanderous) inaccuracy, or 2)someone actually cleans it up.</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/comment-page-1/#comment-229723</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Feb 2008 02:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/25/what-i-didnt-find-on-wikipedia-today/#comment-229723</guid>
		<description>Are Kotsko and Holbo immediate, recent, or eventual? They themselves are the very persons best equipped to answer these questions!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Are Kotsko and Holbo immediate, recent, or eventual? They themselves are the very persons best equipped to answer these questions!</p>
 ]]></content:encoded>
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