Comments on: William F. Buckley has died http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-has-died/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 22 Nov 2009 08:33:20 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Anthony Flood http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-has-died/comment-page-3/#comment-230724 Anthony Flood Mon, 03 Mar 2008 17:02:32 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-j-buckley-has-died/#comment-230724 When he "de-kooked" the conservative movement he merely made it more palatable to its enemies who have the privilege of sovereignly defining "kookery" and smearing all who dissent from that judgment. He banished Oliver and Rothbard as his presumptive heirs banish Ron Paul today. What an accomplishment. When he “de-kooked” the conservative movement he merely made it more palatable to its enemies who have the privilege of sovereignly defining “kookery” and smearing all who dissent from that judgment. He banished Oliver and Rothbard as his presumptive heirs banish Ron Paul today. What an accomplishment.

]]> By: abb1 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-has-died/comment-page-3/#comment-230713 abb1 Mon, 03 Mar 2008 08:08:53 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-j-buckley-has-died/#comment-230713 @137, Buckley helped keep Jim Crow alive. But there's nothing remarkable about it, 30% of the congress voted against the civil rights act. Buckley was a right-winger, self admitted right-winger, obvious right-winger, he channeled the views of that 30% of the population - he just wasn't a particularly bad right-winger. @137, Buckley helped keep Jim Crow alive. But there’s nothing remarkable about it, 30% of the congress voted against the civil rights act. Buckley was a right-winger, self admitted right-winger, obvious right-winger, he channeled the views of that 30% of the population – he just wasn’t a particularly bad right-winger.

]]> By: abb1 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-has-died/comment-page-3/#comment-230710 abb1 Mon, 03 Mar 2008 07:14:51 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-j-buckley-has-died/#comment-230710 Oh, and also on the tattooed buttocks thing - yes it's grotesque, absolutely terrible. That is until you recall what the most common wingnut attitude was (and probably still is): "good, I hope they all get infected and die." Now you should realize that, while being grotesque, Buckley was, in fact, <i>less bad</i> than most. Maybe even much less bad. Oh, and also on the tattooed buttocks thing – yes it’s grotesque, absolutely terrible. That is until you recall what the most common wingnut attitude was (and probably still is): “good, I hope they all get infected and die.” Now you should realize that, while being grotesque, Buckley was, in fact, less bad than most. Maybe even much less bad.

]]> By: harold http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-has-died/comment-page-3/#comment-230691 harold Sun, 02 Mar 2008 23:06:45 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-j-buckley-has-died/#comment-230691 Not 50 years ago but 11 Sam Tanenhaus article (TNR): -- Gradually, it became less Catholic than "Christian." But that was the limit of Buckley's ecumenicalism. In 1997, when he was scouring the ranks of talented younger conservatives to find a new editor for National Review, Buckley eliminated one prospect, his one time protege David Brooks, a rising star at The Weekly Standard. In a memo to board members, Buckley reported that he had discussed Brooks with NR alum George Will: "I said that I thought it would be wrong for the next editor to be other than a believing Christian. He agreed and added that the next editor should not be a Canadian"--a possible reference to conservative writer David Frum. www.tnr.com/story_print.html But Brooks is still angling for it. Maybe he should covert. Not 50 years ago but 11

Sam Tanenhaus article (TNR):
—Gradually, it became less Catholic than “Christian.” But that was the limit of Buckley’s ecumenicalism. In 1997, when he was scouring the ranks of talented younger conservatives to find a new editor for National Review, Buckley eliminated one prospect, his one time protege David Brooks, a rising star at The Weekly Standard. In a memo to board members, Buckley reported that he had discussed Brooks with NR alum George Will: “I said that I thought it would be wrong for the next editor to be other than a believing Christian. He agreed and added that the next editor should not be a Canadian”—a possible reference to conservative writer David Frum.

http://www.tnr.com/story_print.html

But Brooks is still angling for it. Maybe he should covert.

]]> By: Bob http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-has-died/comment-page-3/#comment-230682 Bob Sun, 02 Mar 2008 22:03:28 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-j-buckley-has-died/#comment-230682 abb1: one last point on your bizarre insistence that fighting to keep blacks in their place was no big deal if it happened a long time ago. Here's Bill Hicks on the Kennedy assassination: "People come up to me: 'Bill, quit talking about Kennedy man . . . It was a long time ago . . .' And I'm like alright, then don't bring up Jesus to me. As long as we're talking about shelf life here." History is important and having been so wrong on so important an issue without ever truly apologizing for one's wrongness (and Buckley at best issued a couple lukewarm "I may have chosen the wrong process" apologies over the years) does matter. Sorry if the shelf life is to long for you. Ask any African-American who lived through Jim Crow how ancient it all feels and I suspect you'll get an education. abb1: one last point on your bizarre insistence that fighting to keep blacks in their place was no big deal if it happened a long time ago. Here’s Bill Hicks on the Kennedy assassination: “People come up to me: ‘Bill, quit talking about Kennedy man . . . It was a long time ago . . .’ And I’m like alright, then don’t bring up Jesus to me. As long as we’re talking about shelf life here.” History is important and having been so wrong on so important an issue without ever truly apologizing for one’s wrongness (and Buckley at best issued a couple lukewarm “I may have chosen the wrong process” apologies over the years) does matter. Sorry if the shelf life is to long for you. Ask any African-American who lived through Jim Crow how ancient it all feels and I suspect you’ll get an education.

]]> By: Bob http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-has-died/comment-page-3/#comment-230679 Bob Sun, 02 Mar 2008 21:42:13 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-j-buckley-has-died/#comment-230679 abb1 - who used the term "evil incarnated"? You keep acting as if Buckley was a non-entity; others here keep pointing out from his emergence in the early 50's through at least the mid 90's (when old age finally started to slow him down)he was a leading light of the political movement that gave us Reagan, Bush, Sr., and Bush, Jr, Gitmo, waterboarding, the shredding of the Constitution, etc. As for you comparison to O'Reilly: you blithely dismiss WFB's writings from the 50's as that was sooooo long ago. At the time Buckley was writing that repugnant shit African-Americans were legally segregated and were rarely able to vote. Buckley openly defended that status and as a leading intellectual of his day did so in a manner which carried weight and helped drag out desegregation. O’Reilly spews his poison to a small audience of old people so set in their ways the second coming of Christ wouldn’t change them; Buckley was and is taken seriously as an “intellectual”. He caused real damage – AND CONTINUED TO DO SO AS HAS POINTED OUT HERE AD-NASEUM. Buckley or O'Reilly: which one is a "pretentious clown" and which one helped keep Jim Crow alive? abb1 – who used the term “evil incarnated”? You keep acting as if Buckley was a non-entity; others here keep pointing out from his emergence in the early 50’s through at least the mid 90’s (when old age finally started to slow him down)he was a leading light of the political movement that gave us Reagan, Bush, Sr., and Bush, Jr, Gitmo, waterboarding, the shredding of the Constitution, etc. As for you comparison to O’Reilly: you blithely dismiss WFB’s writings from the 50’s as that was sooooo long ago. At the time Buckley was writing that repugnant shit African-Americans were legally segregated and were rarely able to vote. Buckley openly defended that status and as a leading intellectual of his day did so in a manner which carried weight and helped drag out desegregation. O’Reilly spews his poison to a small audience of old people so set in their ways the second coming of Christ wouldn’t change them; Buckley was and is taken seriously as an “intellectual”. He caused real damage – AND CONTINUED TO DO SO AS HAS POINTED OUT HERE AD-NASEUM. Buckley or O’Reilly: which one is a “pretentious clown” and which one helped keep Jim Crow alive?

]]> By: abb1 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-has-died/comment-page-3/#comment-230670 abb1 Sun, 02 Mar 2008 20:35:06 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-j-buckley-has-died/#comment-230670 Why, just a few months ago mass-culture celebrity Bill O'Reilly was astounded to find out that people in Harlem use forks in restaurants, he defends "white, Christian, male power structure" (his words) - and you are trying to convince me that pretentious clown Buckley is evil incarnated? I guess I really am that obtuse; if you ask me - not even in the same league. Why, just a few months ago mass-culture celebrity Bill O’Reilly was astounded to find out that people in Harlem use forks in restaurants, he defends “white, Christian, male power structure” (his words) – and you are trying to convince me that pretentious clown Buckley is evil incarnated? I guess I really am that obtuse; if you ask me – not even in the same league.

]]> By: Bob http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-has-died/comment-page-3/#comment-230663 Bob Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:52:39 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-j-buckley-has-died/#comment-230663 abb1 @ 131: Are you really as obtuse as you keep presenting yourself as being? Jesus effin Christ - stop harping on 50 years ago. The Susan Smith columns he wrote in the mid-90's; he smeared Mandela in the 90's; he reiterated his brilliant suggestion to tattoo AIDS sufferers in the 2000's. Have you bothered to read any of the comments here or are you just so stuck on your one clever remark you think if you parrot it enough times it will become true? As soon as I find one more transitional fossil I'll get back to you. Will one more be enough? Somehow I doubt it. abb1 @ 131: Are you really as obtuse as you keep presenting yourself as being? Jesus effin Christ – stop harping on 50 years ago. The Susan Smith columns he wrote in the mid-90’s; he smeared Mandela in the 90’s; he reiterated his brilliant suggestion to tattoo AIDS sufferers in the 2000’s. Have you bothered to read any of the comments here or are you just so stuck on your one clever remark you think if you parrot it enough times it will become true? As soon as I find one more transitional fossil I’ll get back to you. Will one more be enough? Somehow I doubt it.

]]> By: harold http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-has-died/comment-page-3/#comment-230653 harold Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:08:46 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-j-buckley-has-died/#comment-230653 After it became unfashionable to say in print that the vengeful pro-Communist Jews were after their pound of flesh in pursuing Eichmann for his crimes, it was still ok to suggest tattooing AIDS sufferers. What a card, that Buckley! After it became unfashionable to say in print that the vengeful pro-Communist Jews were after their pound of flesh in pursuing Eichmann for his crimes, it was still ok to suggest tattooing AIDS sufferers.

What a card, that Buckley!

]]> By: Righteous Bubba http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-has-died/comment-page-3/#comment-230652 Righteous Bubba Sun, 02 Mar 2008 19:04:36 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-j-buckley-has-died/#comment-230652 <a href="http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YWVjOTdhYWM2ZDU3Yzg3NTdjM2M3NWI2YjdkOGUyODc=" rel="nofollow">Comedy:</a> <blockquote>Not a Bad Legacy [Kathryn Jean Lopez] <blockquote>If you ask me, the Right thrives, and it, with all its thinking and pushback and debating, is Bill Buckley's living legacy. <blockquote>And it's no bad thing that Jonah Goldberg's important book, Liberal Fascism, will be #1 on the New York Times bestseller list next week.</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote> Comedy:

Not a Bad Legacy [Kathryn Jean Lopez]

If you ask me, the Right thrives, and it, with all its thinking and pushback and debating, is Bill Buckley’s living legacy.

And it’s no bad thing that Jonah Goldberg’s important book, Liberal Fascism, will be #1 on the New York Times bestseller list next week.

]]> By: geo http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-has-died/comment-page-3/#comment-230651 geo Sun, 02 Mar 2008 18:46:25 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-j-buckley-has-died/#comment-230651 <i>Why go so bombastic on the guy?</i> Yes, you're right. But isn't it an almost irresistible temptation, when he got away with so much unexceptional, run-of-the-mill right-wing swinishness just by flashing his toothy grin and glitzy vocabulary? Why go so bombastic on the guy?

Yes, you’re right. But isn’t it an almost irresistible temptation, when he got away with so much unexceptional, run-of-the-mill right-wing swinishness just by flashing his toothy grin and glitzy vocabulary?

]]> By: abb1 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-has-died/comment-page-3/#comment-230496 abb1 Sat, 01 Mar 2008 10:42:18 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-j-buckley-has-died/#comment-230496 @126, and yet the fact that you have to go back 50 years to find a racist remark makes your denunciations so much weaker. Why go so bombastic on the guy? @126,
and yet the fact that you have to go back 50 years to find a racist remark makes your denunciations so much weaker. Why go so bombastic on the guy?

]]> By: harold http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-has-died/comment-page-3/#comment-230473 harold Sat, 01 Mar 2008 02:12:01 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-j-buckley-has-died/#comment-230473 See Peter Novick's The Holocaust in American Life, Page 129-130 (available on google books: http://books.google.com/books?id=7zpSvtOak7AC&dq=the+holocaust+in+american+life&pg=PP1&ots=MSIUCZo2oA&sig=2ZrDVY1RaTNZDeq92AwKALEtubU&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?q=the+holocaust+in+American+life&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail#PPA130,M1 See Peter Novick’s The Holocaust in American Life, Page 129-130 (available on google books:
http://books.google.com/books?id=7zpSvtOak7AC&dq=the+holocaust+in+american+life&pg=PP1&ots=MSIUCZo2oA&sig=2ZrDVY1RaTNZDeq92AwKALEtubU&hl=en&prev=http://www.google.com/search?q=the+holocaust+in+American+life&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title&cad=one-book-with-thumbnail#PPA130,M1

]]> By: greensmile http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-has-died/comment-page-3/#comment-230466 greensmile Sat, 01 Mar 2008 00:40:45 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-j-buckley-has-died/#comment-230466 Watching Charlie Rose's hour of "best minutes with Buckley" memoriam, I saw a less formidable and persuasive man than I rembered from my youth. I am late to the thread unfortunately but still ask, (where better to): Can you think of a better demonstration that neither class, color nor institutions of education can account for the earth shaking foible that Perlstein hints at as <blockquote><i>We must honor that some humans are conservative and some humans are liberal, and that it will always be thus. …</i></blockquote> I ask because the parallels between Buckley's origins as a thinker are <a href="http://agonist.org/greensmile/20080227/a_tale_of_two_williams_from_yale" rel="nofollow">remarkably paralleled by William Sloan Coffin's </a> and yet, there were some differences of outcome, as I recall. Watching Charlie Rose’s hour of “best minutes with Buckley” memoriam, I saw a less formidable and persuasive man than I rembered from my youth.

I am late to the thread unfortunately but still ask, (where better to): Can you think of a better demonstration that neither class, color nor institutions of education can account for the earth shaking foible that Perlstein hints at as

We must honor that some humans are conservative and some humans are liberal, and that it will always be thus. …

I ask because the parallels between Buckley’s origins as a thinker are remarkably paralleled by William Sloan Coffin’s and yet, there were some differences of outcome, as I recall.

]]> By: matt http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-f-buckley-has-died/comment-page-3/#comment-230464 matt Sat, 01 Mar 2008 00:23:44 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/27/william-j-buckley-has-died/#comment-230464 The eulogists are sure silent on that score, aren't they harold. The eulogists are sure silent on that score, aren’t they harold.

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