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	<title>Comments on: Game over?</title>
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	<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/</link>
	<description>Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made</description>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/comment-page-1/#comment-230759</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 00:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/#comment-230759</guid>
		<description>It was over three months ago when the media started the sneer campaign. And they did that because their owners don&#039;t want the Clintons in office again. They&#039;re too skilled and knowledgeable and got too much done the last time. Better to have someone relatively inexperienced. It makes me so sad.
http://a-civilife.blogspot.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>It was over three months ago when the media started the sneer campaign. And they did that because their owners don&#8217;t want the Clintons in office again. They&#8217;re too skilled and knowledgeable and got too much done the last time. Better to have someone relatively inexperienced. It makes me so sad.<br />
<a href="http://a-civilife.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://a-civilife.blogspot.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: MSS</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/comment-page-1/#comment-230674</link>
		<dc:creator>MSS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 21:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/#comment-230674</guid>
		<description>Andrew noted:
&lt;i&gt;Interesting that 35%-or-so pluralities got McCain the nomination, but Clinton is unlikely to be the nominee despite having enjoyed consistently higher levels of support than this from her own party. Votes count, eh?&lt;/i&gt;

Andrew, thanks for pointing that out. I&#039;ve been making the same point about the (oft-overlooked) votes. 

But the lesson isn&#039;t that votes count, but that (repeat after me) &lt;a href=&quot;http://fruitsandvotes.com/?p=1568&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;institutions matter&lt;/a&gt;!

(Through 19 Feb contests, McCain still had not broken 40% of the cumulative GOP primary vote, even with Romney out. Obama was edging close to 50% of votes cast thus far in the Dems&#039; primaries.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Andrew noted:<br />
<i>Interesting that 35%-or-so pluralities got McCain the nomination, but Clinton is unlikely to be the nominee despite having enjoyed consistently higher levels of support than this from her own party. Votes count, eh?</i></p>

	<p>Andrew, thanks for pointing that out. I&#8217;ve been making the same point about the (oft-overlooked) votes.</p>

	<p>But the lesson isn&#8217;t that votes count, but that (repeat after me) <a href="http://fruitsandvotes.com/?p=1568" rel="nofollow">institutions matter</a>!</p>

	<p>(Through 19 Feb contests, McCain still had not broken 40% of the cumulative <span class="caps">GOP</span> primary vote, even with Romney out. Obama was edging close to 50% of votes cast thus far in the Dems&#8217; primaries.)</p>
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		<title>By: mq</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/comment-page-1/#comment-230623</link>
		<dc:creator>mq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 07:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/#comment-230623</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; If the situation were reversed, Obama would probably be getting the same treatment that Huckabee now gets on the GOP site. &lt;/i&gt;

Come on. If Obama -- or Huckabee -- had lost the races that Hillary has but had won California, NY, Massachusetts, NH, and other states as well, then they would be taken seriously.

In terms of what Obama has over Hilary, I think the most important thing is that he&#039;s more charismatic and a better orator. Sometimes politics is simple.

&lt;i&gt; He [abb1] is very very very rarely offensive, and he represents many points of view often silenced by the liberal mainstream as much as by conservatives. Shame! &lt;/i&gt;

I agree 100% with this, BTW.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><i> If the situation were reversed, Obama would probably be getting the same treatment that Huckabee now gets on the <span class="caps">GOP</span> site. </i></p>

	<p>Come on. If Obama&#8212;or Huckabee&#8212;had lost the races that Hillary has but had won California, NY, Massachusetts, NH, and other states as well, then they would be taken seriously.</p>

	<p>In terms of what Obama has over Hilary, I think the most important thing is that he&#8217;s more charismatic and a better orator. Sometimes politics is simple.</p>

	<p><i> He [abb1] is very very very rarely offensive, and he represents many points of view often silenced by the liberal mainstream as much as by conservatives. Shame! </i></p>

	<p>I agree 100% with this, <span class="caps">BTW</span>.</p>
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		<title>By: nick s</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/comment-page-1/#comment-230617</link>
		<dc:creator>nick s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 05:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/#comment-230617</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d go with andrew&#039;s 10% -- in essence, the &#039;dead girl or live boy&#039; percentage -- for the Clinton nomination. The Intrade number is now at 13, and I still think that&#039;s over-valued.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I&#8217;d go with andrew&#8217;s 10%&#8212;in essence, the &#8216;dead girl or live boy&#8217; percentage&#8212;for the Clinton nomination. The Intrade number is now at 13, and I still think that&#8217;s over-valued.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/comment-page-1/#comment-230591</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 04:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/#comment-230591</guid>
		<description>I agree with seth finkelstein, at #17, that Obama has benefited from being anyone-but-Clinton, picking up many independents and Republicans in open primaries for this reason.  He also seems to have gained the bulk of Edwards supporters.  

Interesting that 35%-or-so pluralities got McCain the nomination, but Clinton is unlikely to be the nominee despite having enjoyed consistently higher levels of support than this from her own party.  Votes count, eh?

That isn&#039;t to say that Obama didn&#039;t go into the race with many supporters, or that he hasn&#039;t attracted more Democrats along the way.  Obama has campaigned very well indeed, and has at least matched the Clinton ground game.

He&#039;s also been phenomenally successful in playing the &quot;super-delegates shouldn&#039;t decide the outcome&quot; at precisely the right moment.  I don&#039;t recall anyone making this argument before, or even immediately after, Super Tuesday.  But once Obama began to pick up momentum in the two weeks after February 4th, propogating the notion that the leader in pledged delegates should be the nominee by acclamation was a master-stroke.  BTW, had the Clinton campaign made a similar argument, I genuinely believe it wouldn&#039;t have gained the same traction.

The Clinton campaign has been successfully painted as being more conniving than its opponent&#039;s, so there&#039;ll be no rescue from Michigan and Florida.  I&#039;m inclined to believe that 10% is about the right odds for a Clinton nomination, relying on a catastrophic slip-up by Obama himself that makes him unviable as a candidate.  The odds against are very long, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>I agree with seth finkelstein, at #17, that Obama has benefited from being anyone-but-Clinton, picking up many independents and Republicans in open primaries for this reason.  He also seems to have gained the bulk of Edwards supporters.</p>

	<p>Interesting that 35%-or-so pluralities got McCain the nomination, but Clinton is unlikely to be the nominee despite having enjoyed consistently higher levels of support than this from her own party.  Votes count, eh?</p>

	<p>That isn&#8217;t to say that Obama didn&#8217;t go into the race with many supporters, or that he hasn&#8217;t attracted more Democrats along the way.  Obama has campaigned very well indeed, and has at least matched the Clinton ground game.</p>

	<p>He&#8217;s also been phenomenally successful in playing the &#8220;super-delegates shouldn&#8217;t decide the outcome&#8221; at precisely the right moment.  I don&#8217;t recall anyone making this argument before, or even immediately after, Super Tuesday.  But once Obama began to pick up momentum in the two weeks after February 4th, propogating the notion that the leader in pledged delegates should be the nominee by acclamation was a master-stroke.  <span class="caps">BTW</span>, had the Clinton campaign made a similar argument, I genuinely believe it wouldn&#8217;t have gained the same traction.</p>

	<p>The Clinton campaign has been successfully painted as being more conniving than its opponent&#8217;s, so there&#8217;ll be no rescue from Michigan and Florida.  I&#8217;m inclined to believe that 10% is about the right odds for a Clinton nomination, relying on a catastrophic slip-up by Obama himself that makes him unviable as a candidate.  The odds against are very long, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: jj</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/comment-page-1/#comment-230589</link>
		<dc:creator>jj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 04:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/#comment-230589</guid>
		<description>On the eve of the Gulf War the authorization bill was split along party lines and the Democrats got plastered for it during the following two elections, so I wasn&#039;t surprised to see them voting for the Iraq War in 2002, despite their obvious misgivings.  Politics is the pursuit of the possible, unlike the wingnuts and the progressives who, to their (the progressives&#039;) credit, believe we should all dream the impossible dream.  Nader, by the way, was the best choice of the 2000 election, but his presence during that election made Bush the plausible victor.

Last time I checked Obama and Clinton had an aggregate total of over a million primary votes between them, while McCain and Huckleberry had less than half as many votes between them.  So I&#039;m guessing that a large Republican crossover vote went to Obama because the Republicans believe they have reason to conclude that Clinton would be the stronger candidate.  Rove&#039;s not just preparing to play this election, he&#039;s been playing it for quite some time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>On the eve of the Gulf War the authorization bill was split along party lines and the Democrats got plastered for it during the following two elections, so I wasn&#8217;t surprised to see them voting for the Iraq War in 2002, despite their obvious misgivings.  Politics is the pursuit of the possible, unlike the wingnuts and the progressives who, to their (the progressives&#8217;) credit, believe we should all dream the impossible dream.  Nader, by the way, was the best choice of the 2000 election, but his presence during that election made Bush the plausible victor.</p>

	<p>Last time I checked Obama and Clinton had an aggregate total of over a million primary votes between them, while McCain and Huckleberry had less than half as many votes between them.  So I&#8217;m guessing that a large Republican crossover vote went to Obama because the Republicans believe they have reason to conclude that Clinton would be the stronger candidate.  Rove&#8217;s not just preparing to play this election, he&#8217;s been playing it for quite some time.</p>
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		<title>By: Brautigan</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/comment-page-1/#comment-230525</link>
		<dc:creator>Brautigan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 16:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/#comment-230525</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Finally, McCain is old, and doesn’t look to be in the best of health&lt;/em&gt;

As Letterman says, he looks like the guy who has to be reminded to close his robe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><em>Finally, McCain is old, and doesn&#8217;t look to be in the best of health</em></p>

	<p>As Letterman says, he looks like the guy who has to be reminded to close his robe.</p>
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		<title>By: Crystal</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/comment-page-1/#comment-230483</link>
		<dc:creator>Crystal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 03:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/#comment-230483</guid>
		<description>The way I see it, Obama is bringing Democrats to the polls - voter turnout in this election was notably high. Could McCain do the same for Republicans? Will people flock to the polls to vote for McCain - especially now that so many are sick to death of Bush and his merrie crew of pirates and plunderers?

Certainly the right-wing noise machine is cranking up attacks against Obama, but the real question is will it stick? and will it turn people against Obama and towards McCain?

Finally, McCain is old, and doesn&#039;t look to be in the best of health (seriously! I see him on TV and think he has one of the waxiest complexions I&#039;ve seen), which has to work against him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>The way I see it, Obama is bringing Democrats to the polls &#8211; voter turnout in this election was notably high. Could McCain do the same for Republicans? Will people flock to the polls to vote for McCain &#8211; especially now that so many are sick to death of Bush and his merrie crew of pirates and plunderers?</p>

	<p>Certainly the right-wing noise machine is cranking up attacks against Obama, but the real question is will it stick? and will it turn people against Obama and towards McCain?</p>

	<p>Finally, McCain is old, and doesn&#8217;t look to be in the best of health (seriously! I see him on TV and think he has one of the waxiest complexions I&#8217;ve seen), which has to work against him.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Hughes</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/comment-page-1/#comment-230470</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Hughes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 01:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/#comment-230470</guid>
		<description>Many people think she is preparing to drop out of the race. If she goes out fighting, she will likely ruin her chances of being able to run in the future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Many people think she is preparing to drop out of the race. If she goes out fighting, she will likely ruin her chances of being able to run in the future.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/comment-page-1/#comment-230434</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 18:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/#comment-230434</guid>
		<description>All of the speculation about Clinton vs. Obama in the face of GOP attack presumes that the campaigns are similarly equipped to deal with it. They are not. As has been emphasized over at Daily Kos, Obama is rebuilding a party organization. As a former community organizer might be expected to do, he is fighting the war on the airwaves with a ground war. I don&#039;t mean to say ground war necessarily beats airwar, merely that all the handicapping seems to assume that the calculus is equal. It is not. No Democratic candidate has used this strategy for decades.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>All of the speculation about Clinton vs. Obama in the face of <span class="caps">GOP</span> attack presumes that the campaigns are similarly equipped to deal with it. They are not. As has been emphasized over at Daily Kos, Obama is rebuilding a party organization. As a former community organizer might be expected to do, he is fighting the war on the airwaves with a ground war. I don&#8217;t mean to say ground war necessarily beats airwar, merely that all the handicapping seems to assume that the calculus is equal. It is not. No Democratic candidate has used this strategy for decades.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/comment-page-1/#comment-230425</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/#comment-230425</guid>
		<description>Hillary-ous new memo from the Hillary &lt;strike&gt;slow-motion trainwreck&lt;/strike&gt; campaign:
&lt;blockquote&gt;The Obama campaign and its allies are outspending us two to one in paid media and have sent more staff into the March 4 states. In fact, when all is totaled, Senator Obama and his allies have outspent Senator Clinton by a margin of $18.4 million to $9.2 million on advertising in the four states that are voting next Tuesday.

Senator Obama has campaigned hard in these states. He has spent time meeting editorial boards, courting endorsers, holding rallies, and - of course - making speeches.

If he cannot win all of these states with all this effort, there&#039;s a problem.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
If nothing else, these idiots have redefined the art of goalpost-shifting. Way to go, political geniuses!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hillary-ous new memo from the Hillary <strike>slow-motion trainwreck</strike> campaign:<br />
<blockquote>The Obama campaign and its allies are outspending us two to one in paid media and have sent more staff into the March 4 states. In fact, when all is totaled, Senator Obama and his allies have outspent Senator Clinton by a margin of $18.4 million to $9.2 million on advertising in the four states that are voting next Tuesday.</blockquote></p>

	<p>Senator Obama has campaigned hard in these states. He has spent time meeting editorial boards, courting endorsers, holding rallies, and &#8211; of course &#8211; making speeches.</p>

	<p>If he cannot win all of these states with all this effort, there&#8217;s a problem.<br />
If nothing else, these idiots have redefined the art of goalpost-shifting. Way to go, political geniuses!</p>
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		<title>By: abb1</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/comment-page-1/#comment-230421</link>
		<dc:creator>abb1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 17:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/#comment-230421</guid>
		<description>Hey, let him delete, why not, it&#039;s funnier this way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Hey, let him delete, why not, it&#8217;s funnier this way.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve LaBonne</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/comment-page-1/#comment-230413</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve LaBonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/#comment-230413</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The game is played for the undecided, not the base.&lt;/blockquote&gt; However, it&#039;s important that your base be motivated to turn out in large numbers. This is one of McCain&#039;s weaknesses. (He says with fingers crossed...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p><blockquote>The game is played for the undecided, not the base.</blockquote> However, it&#8217;s important that your base be motivated to turn out in large numbers. This is one of McCain&#8217;s weaknesses. (He says with fingers crossed&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Laleh</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/comment-page-1/#comment-230412</link>
		<dc:creator>Laleh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:55:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/#comment-230412</guid>
		<description>If Henry is deleting abb&#039;s comments, maybe it is time for me to stop coming to this blog.  He is very very very rarely offensive, and he represents many points of view often silenced by the liberal mainstream as much as by conservatives.  Shame!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>If Henry is deleting abb&#8217;s comments, maybe it is time for me to stop coming to this blog.  He is very very very rarely offensive, and he represents many points of view often silenced by the liberal mainstream as much as by conservatives.  Shame!</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Finkelstein</title>
		<link>http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/comment-page-1/#comment-230411</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Finkelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Feb 2008 16:52:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crookedtimber.org/2008/02/28/game-over/#comment-230411</guid>
		<description>Ah, but those frothing commenters aren&#039;t going to vote Democratic. So let&#039; em rant. The game is played for the undecided, not the base.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[	<p>Ah, but those frothing commenters aren&#8217;t going to vote Democratic. So let&#8217; em rant. The game is played for the undecided, not the base.</p>
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