Comments on: Department of huh? http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:42:59 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: The War Party’s curious affinity for the War Party « Splintered Sunrise http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-231894 The War Party’s curious affinity for the War Party « Splintered Sunrise Tue, 11 Mar 2008 16:53:45 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/#comment-231894 [...] has already been done by Chris Bertram over at Crooked Timber, and followed up at Aaro Watch, but an article that crams so many non [...] [...] has already been done by Chris Bertram over at Crooked Timber, and followed up at Aaro Watch, but an article that crams so many non [...]

]]> By: jj http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-231737 jj Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:38:43 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/#comment-231737 It's not just "the enormous destruction caused by US military interventions abroad" but the global destruction caused by European colonial interventions abroad, of which American military interventions are the current extension of five centuries of European policy, that motivate the rest of the (non-European) world to acquire their own deterrents. So yeah, I can see how the Mongol hordes (rogue nations) in Russia, China, Pakistan, India and Korea might feel marginally more secure with deterrence, given the record of its use and the rationale expressed to justify it. It’s not just “the enormous destruction caused by US military interventions abroad” but the global destruction caused by European colonial interventions abroad, of which American military interventions are the current extension of five centuries of European policy, that motivate the rest of the (non-European) world to acquire their own deterrents. So yeah, I can see how the Mongol hordes (rogue nations) in Russia, China, Pakistan, India and Korea might feel marginally more secure with deterrence, given the record of its use and the rationale expressed to justify it.

]]> By: Brownie http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-231699 Brownie Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:58:30 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/#comment-231699 <i>Given that enormous destruction caused by US military interventions abroad, and the lack of international instituions capable of preventing them, it’s not only natural but quite desirable that “rogue nations” acquire nuclear deterrents. As an American I can honestly say that the more “outlaw” states have nuclear weapons the safer I’ll feel, because the fewer wars my country is likely to find itelf in.</i> I checked it 15 times, but yep, you did actually write that. Sweet Jesus! Given that enormous destruction caused by US military interventions abroad, and the lack of international instituions capable of preventing them, it’s not only natural but quite desirable that “rogue nations” acquire nuclear deterrents. As an American I can honestly say that the more “outlaw” states have nuclear weapons the safer I’ll feel, because the fewer wars my country is likely to find itelf in.

I checked it 15 times, but yep, you did actually write that.

Sweet Jesus!

]]> By: lemuel pitkin http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-231666 lemuel pitkin Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:54:16 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/#comment-231666 In all seriousness, I'm with abb1: the amin effect of a successful Iraqi nuclear program would have been no US invasion. Which everyone here, I think, agrees would be a better state of the world to be in. Given that enormous destruction caused by US military interventions abroad, and the lack of international instituions capable of preventing them, it's not only natural but quite desirable that "rogue nations" acquire nuclear deterrents. As an American I can honestly say that the more "outlaw" states have nuclear weapons the safer I'll feel, because the fewer wars my country is likely to find itelf in. In all seriousness, I’m with abb1: the amin effect of a successful Iraqi nuclear program would have been no US invasion. Which everyone here, I think, agrees would be a better state of the world to be in.

Given that enormous destruction caused by US military interventions abroad, and the lack of international instituions capable of preventing them, it’s not only natural but quite desirable that “rogue nations” acquire nuclear deterrents. As an American I can honestly say that the more “outlaw” states have nuclear weapons the safer I’ll feel, because the fewer wars my country is likely to find itelf in.

]]> By: Dave http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-231654 Dave Mon, 10 Mar 2008 20:08:38 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/#comment-231654 Yeah, but unlike the monarchy, it's not actually *illegal* for the PM to be RC. Just slightly nausea-inducing... Yeah, but unlike the monarchy, it’s not actually illegal for the PM to be RC. Just slightly nausea-inducing…

]]> By: nick s http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-231650 nick s Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:58:07 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/#comment-231650 ginger yellow@28: agreed that the lineage is different. But if there's an equivalent to 'Clause 4', it might be 'hawkishness', and the idea that you can run a campaign without trying to out-hawk the GOP (see: 2004). One irony, given the idiotic 'Obama the Muslim' shit flying around in email: Blair was pretty much a Catholic <i>in pectore</i> throughout his time as PM. ginger yellow@28: agreed that the lineage is different. But if there’s an equivalent to ‘Clause 4’, it might be ‘hawkishness’, and the idea that you can run a campaign without trying to out-hawk the GOP (see: 2004).

One irony, given the idiotic ‘Obama the Muslim’ shit flying around in email: Blair was pretty much a Catholic in pectore throughout his time as PM.

]]> By: abb1 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-231634 abb1 Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:11:10 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/#comment-231634 <i>Retrospectively, wasn’t the bombing of the Osirak reactor a pretty good thing?</i> North Korea has shitload of plutonium and, presumably, nuclear weapons. So does Pakistan. It seems that all it means is that they are much more difficult to invade now. Is it a bad thing? Good thing? <i>Pretty</i> bad thing? Retrospectively, wasn’t the bombing of the Osirak reactor a pretty good thing?

North Korea has shitload of plutonium and, presumably, nuclear weapons. So does Pakistan. It seems that all it means is that they are much more difficult to invade now. Is it a bad thing? Good thing? Pretty bad thing?

]]> By: Borwnie http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-231629 Borwnie Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:22:59 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/#comment-231629 <i>I think Obama seems very early Blair. Very charismatic and good at giving lots of speeches about hope and so on. If I were trying to explain British scepticism, I’d remember that they’ve been burnt by that sort of thing once before.</i> Three times, apparently. In succession. Those crazy Brits... I think Obama seems very early Blair. Very charismatic and good at giving lots of speeches about hope and so on. If I were trying to explain British scepticism, I’d remember that they’ve been burnt by that sort of thing once before.

Three times, apparently. In succession.

Those crazy Brits…

]]> By: Ginger Yellow http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-231609 Ginger Yellow Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:49:14 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/#comment-231609 The Obama/Blair comparison doesn't really hold, if you ask me. Blair's defining characteristic during his rise to power was his willingness, indeed his desperation, to pick fights with the "base" of the Labour party. Obama doesn't do that. Yes, he reaches out to the other side, at least rhetorically, more than the base would like, but he hasn't proposed anything like abolishing Clause 4. On the contrary, it's Clinton who has gone out of her way to alienate diehard liberals, although she does that from the position of strong union and party establishment support. The Obama/Blair comparison doesn’t really hold, if you ask me. Blair’s defining characteristic during his rise to power was his willingness, indeed his desperation, to pick fights with the “base” of the Labour party. Obama doesn’t do that. Yes, he reaches out to the other side, at least rhetorically, more than the base would like, but he hasn’t proposed anything like abolishing Clause 4. On the contrary, it’s Clinton who has gone out of her way to alienate diehard liberals, although she does that from the position of strong union and party establishment support.

]]> By: Alex http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-231586 Alex Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:01:35 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/#comment-231586 There is an argument that Iraq shifted its nuclear efforts from the reactor->plutonium->gun-type route to the centrifuge->HEU->implosion device route after the Osirak raid and therefore made faster progress afterwards, but I don't feel qualified to evaluate it. There is an argument that Iraq shifted its nuclear efforts from the reactor->plutonium->gun-type route to the centrifuge->HEU->implosion device route after the Osirak raid and therefore made faster progress afterwards, but I don’t feel qualified to evaluate it.

]]> By: jay bee http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-231555 jay bee Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:01:32 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/#comment-231555 posted on Sunday, March 9th, 2008 at 6:23 pm ?? Surely not Chris? Wasn't that you at the Memorial Ground "gesturing" to the BBC camera? posted on Sunday, March 9th, 2008 at 6:23 pm ??

Surely not Chris? Wasn’t that you at the Memorial Ground “gesturing” to the BBC camera?

]]> By: Matt McIrvin http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-231522 Matt McIrvin Mon, 10 Mar 2008 02:32:21 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/#comment-231522 How I managed to figure that out from all the way over here, I'll never know. How I managed to figure that out from all the way over here, I’ll never know.

]]> By: nick s http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-231516 nick s Mon, 10 Mar 2008 00:24:34 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/#comment-231516 <i>I think Obama seems very early Blair.</i> It's not a great analogy, those who remember 1997 may, like me, have a few <i>déjà vu</i> moments. The 2004 election certainly felt like Britain/1992, in the sense that whoever won was likely to suffer the consequences. I think matt @20 is on the mark, though my friends back home tend to ask 'where the heck did he come from?', judging Obama's rise by the false metric of British political careers. As for Cohen? Phoning it in. I think Obama seems very early Blair.

It’s not a great analogy, those who remember 1997 may, like me, have a few déjà vu moments. The 2004 election certainly felt like Britain/1992, in the sense that whoever won was likely to suffer the consequences.

I think matt @20 is on the mark, though my friends back home tend to ask ‘where the heck did he come from?’, judging Obama’s rise by the false metric of British political careers.

As for Cohen? Phoning it in.

]]> By: bigTom http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-231511 bigTom Sun, 09 Mar 2008 23:37:43 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/#comment-231511 There is certainly no doubt, that Obama has experienced the dislike for American/British imperialistic policies, in a way that no member of the Washington/London foreign policy establishment has. For all those who think that recent US policy has been jolly on target, that would be considered to be an indicator of a potential traitor. For the rest of us, and most of the world, it would be a long awaited breath of fresh air. There is certainly no doubt, that Obama has experienced the dislike for American/British imperialistic policies, in a way that no member of the Washington/London foreign policy establishment has. For all those who think that recent US policy has been jolly on target, that would be considered to be an indicator of a potential traitor. For the rest of us, and most of the world, it would be a long awaited breath of fresh air.

]]> By: Flying Rodent http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/comment-page-1/#comment-231508 Flying Rodent Sun, 09 Mar 2008 23:07:46 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/09/department-of-huh/#comment-231508 Nick Cohen and Pajamas Media... It was only a matter of time, wasn't it? Nick Cohen and Pajamas Media… It was only a matter of time, wasn’t it?

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