Comments on: The best of all games? http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/ Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made Sun, 08 Nov 2009 08:39:38 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: Crooked Timber » » Rawls Bleg http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/comment-page-2/#comment-233679 Crooked Timber » » Rawls Bleg Sun, 23 Mar 2008 12:31:26 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/#comment-233679 [...] He asks of anyone who might be willing to share with him their correspondence with Rawls – baseball-related or otherwise – to please contact him directly at: “dreidy [at] ukt [dot] edu”. [...] [...] He asks of anyone who might be willing to share with him their correspondence with Rawls – baseball-related or otherwise – to please contact him directly at: “dreidy [at] ukt [dot] edu”. [...]

]]> By: Das Philoblog » Blog Archive » Brief von Rawls über Baseball http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/comment-page-2/#comment-233129 Das Philoblog » Blog Archive » Brief von Rawls über Baseball Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:06:01 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/#comment-233129 [...] John Rawls hat Baseball sehr geschätzt. Die Boston Review veröffentlicht einen seiner Briefe über “the best of all games“. [via] [...] [...] John Rawls hat Baseball sehr geschätzt. Die Boston Review veröffentlicht einen seiner Briefe über “the best of all games“. [via] [...]

]]> By: Righteous Bubba http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/comment-page-2/#comment-232192 Righteous Bubba Wed, 12 Mar 2008 23:12:13 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/#comment-232192 Heh. It also might speak to the quality of individual employed to endure the head-butting of football. Heh. It also might speak to the quality of individual employed to endure the head-butting of football.

]]> By: Bernard Yomtov http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/comment-page-2/#comment-232191 Bernard Yomtov Wed, 12 Mar 2008 23:05:57 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/#comment-232191 <i>Are there penalties in baseball for too many/not enough guys on the field? If so, how often does that happen?</i> Probably, though I've never seen it. It seems wildly unlikely to ever happen, or not be caught instantly. I have to admit that counting to eleven is more complex than counting to nine, since you have to take off a shoe. :-) Are there penalties in baseball for too many/not enough guys on the field? If so, how often does that happen?

Probably, though I’ve never seen it. It seems wildly unlikely to ever happen, or not be caught instantly.

I have to admit that counting to eleven is more complex than counting to nine, since you have to take off a shoe. :-)

]]> By: Henrico Otto http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/comment-page-2/#comment-232181 Henrico Otto Wed, 12 Mar 2008 22:15:13 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/#comment-232181 "First: the rules of the game are in equilibrium: that is, from the start, the diamond was made just the right size, the pitcher’s mound just the right distance from home plate, etc., and this makes possible the marvelous plays, such as the double play. The physical layout of the game is perfectly adjusted to the human skills it is meant to display and to call into graceful exercise." This is not right. Were the basepaths shorter or longer in length the fielders would play closer or farther away. Lengthening or shortening the field (and changing nothing else) would result in fewer or more hits, of course. But, the number of hits is a result of the overall balance of rules, and it is a matter of debate what the right balance should be. That balance has shifted throughout the history of the game, and changes in the rules, the mound, the ball etc have been used intentionally to adjust it. No reason the field couldn't have been adjusted along with these other changes, (and in fact it has, if you count the outfield fences and the amount of playable foul terrritory) “First: the rules of the game are in equilibrium: that is, from the start, the diamond was made just the right size, the pitcher’s mound just the right distance from home plate, etc., and this makes possible the marvelous plays, such as the double play. The physical layout of the game is perfectly adjusted to the human skills it is meant to display and to call into graceful exercise.”

This is not right. Were the basepaths shorter or longer in length the fielders would play closer or farther away. Lengthening or shortening the field (and changing nothing else) would result in fewer or more hits, of course. But, the number of hits is a result of the overall balance of rules, and it is a matter of debate what the right balance should be. That balance has shifted throughout the history of the game, and changes in the rules, the mound, the ball etc have been used intentionally to adjust it. No reason the field couldn’t have been adjusted along with these other changes, (and in fact it has, if you count the outfield fences and the amount of playable foul terrritory)

]]> By: Righteous Bubba http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/comment-page-2/#comment-232163 Righteous Bubba Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:22:41 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/#comment-232163 You can just strike that last "simpler" because it appears to do nothing useful. You can just strike that last “simpler” because it appears to do nothing useful.

]]> By: Righteous Bubba http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/comment-page-2/#comment-232162 Righteous Bubba Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:21:01 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/#comment-232162 <i>No. Therefore football is simpler.</i> Are there penalties in baseball for too many/not enough guys on the field? If so, how often does that happen? I've seen a bunch in the latter and none in the former. Simpler. No. Therefore football is simpler.

Are there penalties in baseball for too many/not enough guys on the field? If so, how often does that happen?

I’ve seen a bunch in the latter and none in the former. Simpler.

]]> By: Bernard Yomtov http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/comment-page-2/#comment-232158 Bernard Yomtov Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:13:06 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/#comment-232158 <i>Football can enjoy high degrees of specialization because it has free substitution. Baseball does not Therefore football is more complicated…</i> No. Therefore football is simpler. It requires fewer lineup tradeoffs than baseball, so the coach's decisons are easier. You can put in whatever specilaist you want when you feel like it. Baseball's much more restrictive rules force the manager to make lineup tradeoffs that are absent in football. Imagine if you could just put your best hitter at the plate every time and send in a fast pinch-runner when he gets on base, repeating the process without limit. Surely that would be simpler than the actual rules, not more complex. Football can enjoy high degrees of specialization because it has free substitution. Baseball does not

Therefore football is more complicated…

No. Therefore football is simpler. It requires fewer lineup tradeoffs than baseball, so the coach’s decisons are easier. You can put in whatever specilaist you want when you feel like it.

Baseball’s much more restrictive rules force the manager to make lineup tradeoffs that are absent in football. Imagine if you could just put your best hitter at the plate every time and send in a fast pinch-runner when he gets on base, repeating the process without limit. Surely that would be simpler than the actual rules, not more complex.

]]> By: engels http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/comment-page-2/#comment-232121 engels Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:43:21 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/#comment-232121 FYI the proper name is not ´baseball´ but ´rounders´. And only girls play it. FYI the proper name is not ´baseball´ but ´rounders´. And only girls play it.

]]> By: Chris Bertram http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/comment-page-2/#comment-232077 Chris Bertram Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:30:23 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/#comment-232077 John (#53), it looks pretty successful in Nigeria and South Africa, and, probably, quite a few other parts of Africa that were formerly part of the British Empire. John (#53), it looks pretty successful in Nigeria and South Africa, and, probably, quite a few other parts of Africa that were formerly part of the British Empire.

]]> By: John Quiggin http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/comment-page-2/#comment-232072 John Quiggin Wed, 12 Mar 2008 08:10:51 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/#comment-232072 #31 Soccer hasn't succeeded in any part of the former British empire - even less in India and Pakistan than in, say, Australia. I don't have a theory for this, but the facts are evident. #31 Soccer hasn’t succeeded in any part of the former British empire – even less in India and Pakistan than in, say, Australia. I don’t have a theory for this, but the facts are evident.

]]> By: Righteous Bubba http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/comment-page-2/#comment-232047 Righteous Bubba Wed, 12 Mar 2008 03:12:54 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/#comment-232047 <i>Football can enjoy high degrees of specialization because it has free substitution. Baseball does not</i> Therefore football is more complicated... Seriously, what's the weight of the baseball rulebook vs. football's? Football can enjoy high degrees of specialization because it has free substitution. Baseball does not

Therefore football is more complicated…

Seriously, what’s the weight of the baseball rulebook vs. football’s?

]]> By: Bernard Yomtov http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/comment-page-2/#comment-232041 Bernard Yomtov Wed, 12 Mar 2008 02:23:28 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/#comment-232041 slocum, What you describe as the talents required of a quarterback are those required of players in other sports as well. They amount to an exceptional sense of the spatial relationships of the other players. John McPhee, writing about Bill Bradley, called it A Sense of Where You Are. The great basketball and hockey players, at least, exhibit this talent in their passes and movements. As for specialization by position, surely this is just a function of the substitution rules. Football can enjoy high degrees of specialization because it has free substitution. Baseball does not, so there is a tradeoff to be made between defensive skills and batting. Aside from pitchers, and sometimes shortstops and catchers, batting usually trumps, but it remains an issue. And of course there are differences in the skills needed for different positions. Here the substitution rules impose different tactical considerations. Put in a pinch-runner? Use the left-handed relief specialist now? Leave the righty in? Bring the closer in early? I think the answer is that any interesting sport, to the dedicated fan, has strategic nuances that enhance its interest, but that may not be apparent to the casual watcher. slocum,

What you describe as the talents required of a quarterback are those required of players in other sports as well. They amount to an exceptional sense of the spatial relationships of the other players. John McPhee, writing about Bill Bradley, called it A Sense of Where You Are. The great basketball and hockey players, at least, exhibit this talent in their passes and movements.

As for specialization by position, surely this is just a function of the substitution rules. Football can enjoy high degrees of specialization because it has free substitution. Baseball does not, so there is a tradeoff to be made between defensive skills and batting. Aside from pitchers, and sometimes shortstops and catchers, batting usually trumps, but it remains an issue. And of course there are differences in the skills needed for different positions.

Here the substitution rules impose different tactical considerations. Put in a pinch-runner? Use the left-handed relief specialist now? Leave the righty in? Bring the closer in early?

I think the answer is that any interesting sport, to the dedicated fan, has strategic nuances that enhance its interest, but that may not be apparent to the casual watcher.

]]> By: Righteous Bubba http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/comment-page-1/#comment-232036 Righteous Bubba Wed, 12 Mar 2008 01:37:32 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/#comment-232036 <i>In soccer each player has to make split second decisions all the time.</i> They might have to walk up the field more quickly. In soccer each player has to make split second decisions all the time.

They might have to walk up the field more quickly.

]]> By: Club Troppo » Missing Link Daily http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/comment-page-1/#comment-232017 Club Troppo » Missing Link Daily Tue, 11 Mar 2008 23:59:19 +0000 http://crookedtimber.org/2008/03/10/the-best-of-all-games/#comment-232017 [...] Harry at Crooked Timber points to a 27 year old letter by philosopher John Rawls arguing that baseball is the best of all games. [...] [...] Harry at Crooked Timber points to a 27 year old letter by philosopher John Rawls arguing that baseball is the best of all games. [...]

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